WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Discussion regarding the Outsider webcomic, science, technology and science fiction.

Moderator: Outsider Moderators

User avatar
icekatze
Posts: 1399
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:35 pm
Location: Middle of Nowhere
Contact:

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by icekatze »

hi hi

If you don't need to impart any initial velocity on your missile/torpedo with a launcher, whether because you don't need to hold it up against gravity while the projectile accelerates enough to overcome it, or some other consideration; I'd say there's some merit to being able to cut out heavy and complicated mechanisms and just open the door to the magazine and let them propel themselves.

Sweforce
Posts: 546
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:00 am

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Sweforce »

icekatze wrote:hi hi

If you don't need to impart any initial velocity on your missile/torpedo with a launcher, whether because you don't need to hold it up against gravity while the projectile accelerates enough to overcome it, or some other consideration; I'd say there's some merit to being able to cut out heavy and complicated mechanisms and just open the door to the magazine and let them propel themselves.


Damage caused by exhaust gasses is why it is usually a bad idea to start the engine immediately. As such it is probably best to eject the missile from it containment tube with other means like for instance compressed air. It is however possible to launch with the engine active but it can be a good idea to avoid that. We have an ongoing scandal here in Sweden with our stupid politicians gotten into their minds to purchase patriot missiles despite those being an obsolete technology, and they cannot be launched from ships exactly of the reason mention above.

User avatar
Onaiom
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:06 am

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Onaiom »

Sweforce wrote:Damage caused by exhaust gasses is why it is usually a bad idea to start the engine immediately. As such it is probably best to eject the missile from it containment tube with other means like for instance compressed air. It is however possible to launch with the engine active but it can be a good idea to avoid that. We have an ongoing scandal here in Sweden with our stupid politicians gotten into their minds to purchase patriot missiles despite those being an obsolete technology, and they cannot be launched from ships exactly of the reason mention above.
Damage caused by torpedo drive plume in this case. In universe, the Umiak must use some form of magnetic rail to launch the missile foward so it can start to accelerate.

entity2636
Posts: 339
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:53 am

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by entity2636 »

The Rule Of Cool is definitely a thing and the missile barrage does look cool and sci-fi, but I agree that the tracks left by the missiles should be smoother and arching. Now it feels like the missiles don't have any mass or inertia, being able to make an almost 90-degree turn over a distance less than the length of the missile itself.

fredgiblet
Moderator
Posts: 983
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:02 pm

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by fredgiblet »

Image
Sweforce wrote:Damage caused by exhaust gasses is why it is usually a bad idea to start the engine immediately.
Image

Krulle
Posts: 1413
Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 9:14 am

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Krulle »

entity2636 wrote:The Rule Of Cool is definitely a thing and the missile barrage does look cool and sci-fi, but I agree that the tracks left by the missiles should be smoother and arching. Now it feels like the missiles don't have any mass or inertia, being able to make an almost 90-degree turn over a distance less than the length of the missile itself.
It may well be we don't see any real acceleration in the direction orthogonal away from the ship, just some "turning burn", and then the real burn kicks in, accelerating the missile at multiple g, whereas before there was no real acceleration. This could look like the missiles made a sharp bend.
Could be more visible in the image by a less clear blue line away from the ship, and the a rather bright blue line forward (indicating two different burn plume strengths).

Nice image, fredgiblet. :)
Vote for Outsider on TWC: Image
charred steppes, borders of territories: page 59,
jump-map of local stars: page 121, larger map in Loroi: page 118,
System view Leido Crossroads: page 123, after the battle page 195

Sweforce
Posts: 546
Joined: Fri Mar 13, 2015 12:00 am

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Sweforce »

Krulle wrote: Nice image, fredgiblet. :)
I totally agree and the way that the recoils rock the car tell me a bit of accuracy... :lol:

Krulle
Posts: 1413
Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 9:14 am

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Krulle »

Well, cheap weapon systems installed on cheap chariots....
I like how the first one already set fire to the vehicle, and how each consecutive missile just adds...
The last one we see starting, starts with a slight delay. Did it start because of the fire (which ignited its fuel)? Or did it get launched to prevent it from exploding in situ?
Vote for Outsider on TWC: Image
charred steppes, borders of territories: page 59,
jump-map of local stars: page 121, larger map in Loroi: page 118,
System view Leido Crossroads: page 123, after the battle page 195

Overkill Engine
Posts: 135
Joined: Tue May 17, 2011 9:51 pm

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Overkill Engine »

fredgiblet wrote: Image
Woof. Backblast area was NOT clear!

Guess they should have mounted the launcher on a tow (hue hue) trailer with cab controlled quick disconnect hitch, deployable braces, and radio remote control or one hell of a control by wire spool in the pickup bed. More expensive and complex than the bed mounted option, but cheaper than replacing pickups and crew all the time lol.

entity2636
Posts: 339
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:53 am

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by entity2636 »

Overkill Engine wrote:Guess they should have mounted the launcher on a tow (hue hue) trailer with cab controlled quick disconnect hitch, deployable braces, and radio remote control or one hell of a control by wire spool in the pickup bed. More expensive and complex than the bed mounted option, but cheaper than replacing pickups and crew all the time lol.
That's obviously an improvised weapon system, something terrorist organizations, rebels and various other flavors of middle eastern "freedom fighters" use. It's a single use throw-away weapon made from sewage pipes and angle iron, mounted on top of a requisitioned/abandoned/stolen truck and I wouldn't be surprised if it shoots soviet RPG rounds or something similar (dumb rockets). And no one there cares about any accuracy as long as it's pointed in the general direction of a city district you want to blow up.

User avatar
SVlad
Posts: 305
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:43 pm
Location: Saint-Petersburg, Russia

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by SVlad »

entity2636 wrote:The Rule Of Cool is definitely a thing and the missile barrage does look cool and sci-fi, but I agree that the tracks left by the missiles should be smoother and arching. Now it feels like the missiles don't have any mass or inertia, being able to make an almost 90-degree turn over a distance less than the length of the missile itself.
Imagine the missile was catapulted out from launch shaft and slowly drifting out of ship. Then it rotates onto intercept course and go full thrust, almost instantly changing vector thanks to 60 g acceleration. In contrast to air missiles, space torpedo has no need to be oriented prograde, it can freely rotate independent of speed vector.
Like in this video, but imagine rocket reoriented itself before engine ignition.
Outsider in Russian
Image

User avatar
Onaiom
Posts: 124
Joined: Sun Oct 13, 2013 4:06 am

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Onaiom »

SVlad wrote:Like in this video, but imagine rocket reoriented itself before engine ignition.
More like the nuclear torpedos from the Rocinante:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-yCIdUSQv-A

folti
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 10:24 am

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by folti »

novius wrote: But... The Umiak definitely do themselves a disservice to have their missiles home in on their target in straight, ruler-precision lines. Makes it easier for point defense systems to target and destroy them.

But, yes. I think the Rule Of Cool trumps practical considerations for sake of display :)
Eh, they just started their separation burn from their launching ship. They don't have to start evasive maneuvers until they are approaching the expected range of the enemy's point defense systems. Until that point they'd just waste their fuel.

User avatar
cacambo43
Posts: 301
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:39 am
Location: The Space Coast
Contact:

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by cacambo43 »

To be honest, I think following this comic so closely is starting to cause me more problems in enjoying it. Much of that comes from my (our) uber-scrutinizing it and Insider during Arioch's long hiatuses.

When I first found the comic, when most of Chapter 1 was already done, it was like picking up a comic book and just going through it. Not a lot of time worrying about the position of Tempo's hand, or if a torpedo barrage would really look the way it did. This dissecting of every frame of every page is entertainment in itself, sure - but I think I'd rather do that after reading through at least the chapter they are in first.

I'm going to back away from the forum for a bit and just read the pages as they come. Maybe after a chunk (I may not be disciplined enough to wait for whole chapters), I'll pop in and see what you all have been talking about. If the forum posts have gotten out of control by then, so be it. And I could always change my mind... :D

See you guys around. <3

CJSF

Krulle
Posts: 1413
Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 9:14 am

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Krulle »

Click you soon! (And I fully understand you, but the resulting conclusion is simply different for me)
Vote for Outsider on TWC: Image
charred steppes, borders of territories: page 59,
jump-map of local stars: page 121, larger map in Loroi: page 118,
System view Leido Crossroads: page 123, after the battle page 195

fredgiblet
Moderator
Posts: 983
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 4:02 pm

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by fredgiblet »

Looks like Talon has her game face on.

Krulle
Posts: 1413
Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 9:14 am

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Krulle »

Yes, game is on!
Vote for Outsider on TWC: Image
charred steppes, borders of territories: page 59,
jump-map of local stars: page 121, larger map in Loroi: page 118,
System view Leido Crossroads: page 123, after the battle page 195

entity2636
Posts: 339
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:53 am

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by entity2636 »

Oh yeah, it's Go-Time alright 8-)

User avatar
thicket
Posts: 45
Joined: Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:32 pm

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by thicket »

woah, not much heads up before the new page. I like it though :)

User avatar
Zarya
Posts: 202
Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 2:32 am

Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

Post by Zarya »

Image

Post Reply