WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

NOMAD · Post by **NOMAD** » Fri May 27, 2011 5:51 am

Could be, or their using the best and more efficent tactic truth mixed with lies. hard to tell which is which

Unless the Umiak have a cultural factor that recognizes a very effective and deadly enemy and offer them an escape out of respect

Cdr Straker · Post by **Cdr Straker** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:55 am

Until we have more interaction with Umiak, we're just not going to know what klick-klack-tallywack's motivations or truthfulness are. I think that Stillstorm will have to take it at it's word and make decisions based on the best tactical analysis she's got.

I don't think it's been discused, yet, but what is the status of the fleet train? Where is the rally point for the Loroi task groups? Can the 51st quickly replenish ordnance, fuel and consumables? At this point, the leadership of the 51st is behind the power curve on intel and it will take decisive action on Stillstorm's part to extricate them from this situation with any hope of continued combat effectiveness. Even, as has been discussed, a retreat into Human space will not solve their immediate supply problems (beans, bullets, bandaids), nor give them access to ship repair facilities. We're entering Battlestar Galactica territory, there. Hopefully, the Loroi are resorceful and flexible, as I assume they must be, having fought an implacable enemy for this period of time.

TrashMan · Post by **TrashMan** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:18 am

Arioch wrote: Loroi are nightmare prisoners: they can communicate with each other in telepathic ways you can't overhear or prevent, and even an unarmed civilian Loroi may be able to use her telepathy offensively. Attempting to capture a Mizol or Teidar is nearly out of the question: there is no way (except keeping her permanently unconscious) to prevent a psionic Loroi from using her powers against her captors. And there is no way (uniforms aside) to be sure that Loroi you are trying to capture is not a Mizol or Teidar, so the Umiak now generally kill any Loroi they come into contact with as a general rule, regardless of whether they appear to be military or civilian.

Surely you mean no known way? The Loroi have psi-amplifers, so if technology that amplifies PSI is possible, then the reverse must also hold true. It should be possible to create psi-nullifiers.
Too bad the Umiak don't have those...

NOMAD · Post by **NOMAD** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:28 am

Cdr Straker wrote: Until we have more interaction with Umiak, we're just not going to know what klick-klack-tallywack's motivations or truthfulness are. I think that Stillstorm will have to take it at it's word and make decisions based on the best tactical analysis she's got.

Ah the "on the spot decision making", should be interesting to see what she decides

Cdr Straker wrote: I don't think it's been discused, yet, but what is the status of the fleet train? Where is the rally point for the Loroi task groups? Can the 51st quickly replenish ordnance, fuel and consumables? At this point, the leadership of the 51st is behind the power curve on intel and it will take decisive action on Stillstorm's part to extricate them from this situation with any hope of continued combat effectiveness. Even, as has been discussed, a retreat into Human space will not solve their immediate supply problems (beans, bullets, bandaids), nor give them access to ship repair facilities. We're entering Battlestar Galactica territory, there. Hopefully, the Loroi are resorceful and flexible, as I assume they must be, having fought an implacable enemy for this period of time.

From what has been discussion about the strike groups ( relying on my very reliable memory (

. . moving on)) The strike groups operation on an intercepting and raiding role, thus, they operate on their own with the intel they were provided with ( IE how the other two SG's got eliminated, due the farseer jamming). Therefore, in my opinion ( no experience with logistics here so anyone feel free to correct

) means their probably isn't any support fleet or tankers waiting for them at a pre-planned RV point, since their is no FLT communication in the Outsider Uni and, a top of that, it would be risky to jeopardize valuable essential supplies ( fuel, torpedos, Blisters, replacement crew etc) and the Fleet supply ships carrying them, on a chance that a Umiak fleet were to get through ( which would ruin the support fleet day obviously).

Even if a supply fleet were organized or planned, the only time I can figure on is for a a risky long-range strikes into Umiak territory ( say, to target a critical supply depot or other rare strategic target deep that was recently encovered ( given the loroi limited intel of asses in Umiak space).

Final note: I agree with Cdr Straker, backing into human territory isn't possible, nor would the Loroi accept it ( being a little prideful and wanting to defend their homes)

Post by **Arioch** » Thu Jun 02, 2011 7:00 am

Without FTL communications, resupply must be either at prearranged places and times, or the resupply convoy must have a Farseer so she can detect and "intercept" the friendly strike groups. Farseers are in short enough supply that they can rarely be "wasted" on supply convoys.

For the normal, continuously-operating interdiction forces, they must return to friendly territory to meet a resupply convoy. These are usually stationed at the border, so that strike groups don't always have to return to a deeper regional base (such as Azimol).

Except for some kind of special pre-arranged offensive, the Loroi have no safe way to project supply resources out into the Steppes (and strike groups have no means to call for such supply... Farseers are FTL detectors, but not FTL radios).

NOMAD · Post by **NOMAD** » Fri Jun 03, 2011 1:58 am

Thanks Arioch, make perfect sense

Aygar · Post by **Aygar** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 2:33 pm

Arioch wrote:Without FTL communications, resupply must be either at prearranged places and times, or the resupply convoy must have a Farseer so she can detect and "intercept" the friendly strike groups. Farseers are in short enough supply that they can rarely be "wasted" on supply convoys.

For the normal, continuously-operating interdiction forces, they must return to friendly territory to meet a resupply convoy. These are usually stationed at the border, so that strike groups don't always have to return to a deeper regional base (such as Azimol).

Except for some kind of special pre-arranged offensive, the Loroi have no safe way to project supply resources out into the Steppes (and strike groups have no means to call for such supply... Farseers are FTL detectors, but not FTL radios).

I though that Farseers could communicate with other Farseers at interstellar distances at FTL.

--Aygar

Mjolnir · Post by **Mjolnir** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 3:04 pm

Aygar wrote:I though that Farseers could communicate with other Farseers at interstellar distances at FTL.

Direct communication would apparently pose a danger to nearby Loroi and likely rapidly burn out the Farseer. If anyone ever tried, it'd be to give some very bad news. Farseers' talents and equipment might also just not be set up for it.

They could arrange for other sorts of signaling, though...even if it's as simple as selecting a different prearranged course based. And the Farseers can see Loroi forces going from system to system and taking casualties, so they can give guidance to other Loroi forces passing through to allow forces multiple jumps apart to coordinate without direct communication. I wonder if the Umiak ever tried to cripple Loroi ships without killing the crew to slow the arrival of reinforcements...

The Umiak could get more use out of telepathy. Just carry a sufficiently large bank of brains in jars wired so you can turn them on and off and send a visible signal to your Farseers...

Aygar · Post by **Aygar** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 4:52 pm

Mjolnir wrote:
Aygar wrote:I though that Farseers could communicate with other Farseers at interstellar distances at FTL.
Direct communication would apparently pose a danger to nearby Loroi and likely rapidly burn out the Farseer. If anyone ever tried, it'd be to give some very bad news. Farseers' talents and equipment might also just not be set up for it.

They could arrange for other sorts of signaling, though...even if it's as simple as selecting a different prearranged course based. And the Farseers can see Loroi forces going from system to system and taking casualties, so they can give guidance to other Loroi forces passing through to allow forces multiple jumps apart to coordinate without direct communication. I wonder if the Umiak ever tried to cripple Loroi ships without killing the crew to slow the arrival of reinforcements...

The Umiak could get more use out of telepathy. Just carry a sufficiently large bank of brains in jars wired so you can turn them on and off and send a visible signal to your Farseers...

Okay, I remember the post about the detrimental effects of extreme distance tele-sending. I guess I just assumed that if a Loroi, with sensitive tele-receive, amplified the sensitivity of her tele-receive ability she could receive normal strength directed tele-sends at interstellar distances. And that Farseers generally had that sensitivity and amps for that, thus 2 Farseers could communicate with each other at interstellar distances without adverse consequences for the rank and file Loroi.

--Aygar

Post by **Arioch** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 6:19 pm

If Farseers could receive normal-strength telepathic signals at interstellar distances, then they would be constantly bombarded by billions of simultaneous messages from every living Loroi. It should be possible for a Farseer to detect a hugely amplified signal, but then you have the problem of shattering the telepathic "eardrums" of every Loroi near to the transmission -- including the transmitter herself. There are ways around this, but they are limited and difficult to set up, and so can only be used in a limited fashion. And it would not be a sensitive Farseer that you'd want to use for such a transmission, but a powerful sending telepath with a fine degree of control and formidable mental shields (a.k.a., a Mizol).

As Mjolnir mentions, since the Farseers back at base can track the movements of their own forces (as well as the enemy's), Loroi command can infer things about what's going on, and respond to movements that they see. For example, if they see a raider group returning via a particular route, they can arrange for a supply convoy to meet them.

Grayhome · Post by **Grayhome** » Mon Jun 06, 2011 8:51 pm

It should be possible for a Farseer to detect a hugely amplified signal, but then you have the problem of shattering the telepathic "eardrums" of every Loroi near to the transmission -- including the transmitter herself.

I wonder what affect such a device would have upon a human?

Karst45 · Post by **Karst45** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 12:28 am

Grayhome wrote:
It should be possible for a Farseer to detect a hugely amplified signal, but then you have the problem of shattering the telepathic "eardrums" of every Loroi near to the transmission -- including the transmitter herself.
I wonder what affect such a device would have upon a human?

Alex: hi hi hi! it tickle

NOMAD · Post by **NOMAD** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:28 am

Karst45 wrote:

Alex: hi hi hi! it tickle

I hope that wasn't in a girly voice

bunnyboy · Post by **bunnyboy** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:05 pm

How about presense amplifier based morse type codes?
(Now you can sense me, now you not.)

"Mind train" goes out of hands. Now I'm thinking of telepathic internet, where the farseers handle the bytes manually. It would be slow.

GeoModder · Post by **GeoModder** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 6:55 pm

To go on on the liabilities of farseeing and telepathic 'transmitting', am I correct to assume that in the early days of the 3 sister worlds the Loroi 'detected' the presence of fellow Loroi on other worlds, but did not 'broadcast' telepathic messages?
'Direct' contact had to wait until spaceships arrived?

Blackbox · Post by **Blackbox** » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:04 pm

bunnyboy wrote:How about presense amplifier based morse type codes?
(Now you can sense me, now you not.)

"Mind train" goes out of hands. Now I'm thinking of telepathic internet, where the farseers handle the bytes manually. It would be slow.

Had this idea sitting around for awhile...

Code: Select all

Network Working Group                                             Lis. Toz. Eilis
Request for Comments: 51149                                     Loroi Fleet SG-51
Category:Experimental                                                1 April 2161


      A Standard for the Transmission of IP Datagrams over Sanzai Networks

Sorry, that's all I've got...a reference to a far more-involved and funnier joke.

Mayhem · Post by **Mayhem** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:01 pm

I can't imagine what Stillstorm is supposed to be saying/implying in the panel.

If only because I can't get the idea of Stillstorm saying

"yeah and next you'll want me to believe that this is 6 inches"

out of my head long enough for any other idea to have a chance.

Grayhome · Post by **Grayhome** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 1:21 pm

"Captain Jardin come hither."

fredgiblet · Post by **fredgiblet** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 4:28 pm

"You've just activated my trap card"

Solemn · Post by **Solemn** » Mon Jun 27, 2011 7:36 pm

The four most frightening words in any language.

"I've got an idea."

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