Well of Souls Forums

hi hi

For a disabled ship, every shot is pretty much guaranteed to hit, where as the Umiak could fire dozens (or maybe even hundreds) of shots at a fully maneuvering Loroi ship and hit nothing. With a few shots they can remove the ship from their equations, compared to a few shots that will likely miss their target, it is a pretty safe expenditure. If it was indeed the Umiak who destroyed the Bellarmine, I think it shows their operational procedure involves taking no chances. No doubt the Loroi played dead as a tactic once before and won't be allowed to do the same again.

First, very good explanation of the option available to both fleets, well thought-out Solemn

There are probably many other possibilities that I have overlooked here.

Another might be more obvious, that you brought up with your "Loroi ship are easy to figure out" comment, each of the 51st wings have a larger vessel as their sub-commanders, and unfortunately Winter Tide happen to be the command ships for the front formation and the Umiak are targeting her to spread confusion and collapse the front formation, allowing a straight shoot at the center formation ( and a pass at the Bell)

I might be reading too much into this, but it maybe that the wedge is aiming for the centre of the Loroi fleet to break up the fleet and Winter Tide is caught in the middle.

either way 51 is going to lose ships now that Umiak are at their best, short range fighting

Solemn wrote:The slim chance of the Umiak having no intention of killing her. The chance that Ashrain breaking formation will draw all their fire, by virtue of offering a much more valuable target. The chance that the Umiak shots fired have only been aimed at her because she's been the only ship in that weapons' range, and that they'll be within range of other, higher priority targets before they hit her, since she's managed to dodge a whole lot of them so far.
None of these are terribly likely to save her, but I think they're as likely to save her as the missiles.

Why on earth would the Umiak not want to kill Winter Tide? She's a viable weapons platform and is still quite obviously in the fight. Her weapons are capable of doing severe damage to an Umiak ship, despite the damage she's sustained.

Solemn wrote:And the chance that some factor I'm unaware of could come into play.

As of right now, the only thing which is intervening in Winter Tide's unenviable situation is the fact that Stillstorm is concentrating her fire on the tip of the wedge, and that Ashrain has launched some heavy ordnance in support. That's it. And you're saying that some completely unknown circumstance has an equivalent chance of keeping her from being destroyed?

I looked closely at the Tempest tactical holo-display. I do not see the wreak of the Bellemarine marked anywhere and its a little difficult to tell exactly the location of the Umiak Wedge formation advance.

The red dot is Bellarmine.

Ah... I think I see what you mean...!!!

Thanks Captain!

No worries!

sunphoenix wrote:I expect the Umiak tactic is to close distance with the Loroi flotilla and split their formation in half by wedging a force between their two flanks. This is mostly, I would think, to make the Loroi 'Zone Defense' counter-missile fire unusable so the Umiak superior numbers can capitalize on their numerical advantage.

Just two flanks? =P What about the top and bottom flanks?

I do think the usage of "wedge" is confusing, but the descriptions just before that leave me to feel like apiercing concentration could have been meant instead of a splitting front...

Good point! Driving a Wedge ... or perhaps a Cone formation into the heart of the Loroi lines of engagement so their superior numbers can en-globe from the outside while their cone drives for their objective...presumably the wreck of the Bellermine. This would cause the Loroi to have to split their anti-missile directed fire and end any zone defense as they risk hitting their own ships in the clutter of vessels.

CptWinters wrote:not want to kill Winter Tide?

Same reason insurgents wouldn't want to finish of a wounded soldier, they know that the others will stay and try to recover the wounded, meaning that they can be forced into a disadvantageous position and suffer more losses than they would if the ship was destroyed. Ever see Full Metal Jacket? Remember the sniper scene? How do you think that would have played out if the guy was killed right away?

hi hi

The insurgent analogy might work if there was some kind of cover that the Umiak or the Loroi had available, forcing the Loroi to break cover in order to help the wounded craft or providing the Umiak some level of stealth. As it stands though, trying to recover survivors in the middle of a fight is blatantly suicidal, like trying to run up and drag away a wounded solder when a guy with a machine gun is standing over the body, so the Loroi don't increase their chances of saving the wounded vessel by exposing themselves to additional risk. So I guess the cover that the Loroi has is their range, but since they have to destroy the Umiak in order to save the wounded vessel, their best option is to follow their usual strategy.

What is the opinion of the denizens of the board about the blue rectangle on the Black Razor. Do you guys think is a shuttle bay or a warhead launcher or something else? I think its a bay of some kind.

--Aygar

Remember what this isn't? Infantry combat. If a sniper shoots someone in the gut, the wounded soldier sure as hell isn't going to be a threat anymore, even if he's still alive. Winter Tide is still a threat, unlike that wounded man.

I'm with Cpt Winters. While the winter tide is much more easy to hit now, it's offensive capability is likely still a significant fraction of normal and therefore totally worth the effort to shoot down. Think about it in terms of how much damage can the Umiak inflict per unit time, knowing that there will likely be another joust. What is more important, wounding 6 vessels so they are easily shot down next time or taking out 2? I would argue that reducing the number of guns firing you as quickly as possible is the best option.
-O

My tactical advice for the Winter Tide would be to move in close to a Umiak heavy and in the 'shadow' of whatever the blisters will do. After the blast and possibly under enemy sensor blindness, make a run for it. Heading for the Umiak supply/logistical train/tenders might also draw fire away from the rest of the fleet.
--
TAZ

Aside from some sadly necessary concessions to the visual medium, I find these pew-pew space battles quite nice looking.

first great pape love the drama.

now I wonder if the Umiak even know or even care about the Bellermine at this point?

we're all assuming that's what they're aiming for the Bellermine because that's the foces of the side of the story we've read. but this line of thought really only works if the bugs are in some conspiracy to keep humans and Loroi apart which seems not that likely to me. the more likely that the real target is the tempest which is next to the Bellermine.

it is the biggest prize on the field after all.

I mean even if the bugs are the ones that distoryed the Bellermine it makes little sense to keep the Loroi away from it unless they know more then would make sense.

dex drako wrote:we're all assuming that's what they're aiming for the Bellermine

I wasn't. If they know about the Bell then they've already decided it's not important (since they didn't vaporize it when they attacked/found it). If they don't know then they're just there for the Loroi, hell they STILL might not realize what it is depending on how tunnel-visioned they are, they may not realize that there's a salvage operation operation going on until after they drive off the Loroi.

the only issue with running is time. They are stuck at likely half thrust if they're lucky and they're likely stuck going in one direction (or a small subset) due to missing a main engine. The blisters might provide cover, but you'll only get at best say 30 seconds out of it, which doesn't really get you all that far unless they're already really close and will be significantly farther away over that time period, we don't really know anything about the relative velocities in play at the moment.
-O