Page 159: Bedroom Eyes

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zircher
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Re: Page 159: Bedroom Eyes

Post by zircher »

If I were to hazard a guess, can he stay rational or will he be another emotional rutting male? Most of the crew have seen him, but few actually know him.

Dahak
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Re: Page 159: Bedroom Eyes

Post by Dahak »

zircher wrote:If I were to hazard a guess, can he stay rational or will he be another emotional rutting male? Most of the crew have seen him, but few actually know him.
These are basically every Loroi we know of other than Stillstorm who have ever spoken to or interacted with Alex.

zircher
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Re: Page 159: Bedroom Eyes

Post by zircher »

Yes, but only two of those have had extended (verbal) conversations and I assumed the third is briefed on anything security related. But having said that, I have no idea how much they have shared telepathically. It might be one of those creepy, "We've just met, but you're continuing a conversation I've had with another person kind of thing." :-)

novius
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Re: Page 159: Bedroom Eyes

Post by novius »

Dahak wrote:
zircher wrote:If I were to hazard a guess, can he stay rational or will he be another emotional rutting male? Most of the crew have seen him, but few actually know him.
These are basically every Loroi we know of other than Stillstorm who have ever spoken to or interacted with Alex.
I've already mentioned this in a different thread, that this could be intentional as well - if someone wants Alex to 'disappear', better do it with all witnesses and evidence as well, leave no traces behind. After all, Alex's mere existence is a threat to the status quo within the Union.

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SVlad
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Re: Page 159: Bedroom Eyes

Post by SVlad »

novius wrote: I've already mentioned this in a different thread, that this could be intentional as well - if someone wants Alex to 'disappear', better do it with all witnesses and evidence as well, leave no traces behind. After all, Alex's mere existence is a threat to the status quo within the Union.
But then Loroi should also destroy the Barsam courier.
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Zarya
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Re: Page 159: Bedroom Eyes

Post by Zarya »

SVlad wrote:
novius wrote: I've already mentioned this in a different thread, that this could be intentional as well - if someone wants Alex to 'disappear', better do it with all witnesses and evidence as well, leave no traces behind. After all, Alex's mere existence is a threat to the status quo within the Union.
But then Loroi should also destroy the Barsam courier.
They could leave that job to the Umiak to finish - however there would still be plenty of other witnesses left in Strikegroup 51 that would have to forget the costly fight over the wreck of the Bellarmine in the Naam-system.

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Werra
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Re: Page 159: Bedroom Eyes

Post by Werra »

If enforced secrecy in human society is any indication -which isn't a given- those Loroi would know to keep quiet if they value their careers.

novius
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Re: Page 159: Bedroom Eyes

Post by novius »

Zarya wrote:They could leave that job to the Umiak to finish - however there would still be plenty of other witnesses left in Strikegroup 51 that would have to forget the costly fight over the wreck of the Bellarmine in the Naam-system.
They just saw a wreck of alien make, and wouldn't even know about its intrinsic value or danger. I'm pretty much sure the Loroi follow a 'scorched earth' strategy, and that would include nuking everything to not to let the Umiak even guess whether they picked up something of value or not. So... to the common Loroi crewman, they stumbled across a wreck, and had to follow procedure once the Enemy showed up. Case closed, back to the daily grind.

The Barsam? Well... they speak, and whoever doesn't use sanzai is not quite trustworthy in Loroi eyes. So who is to believe? The Admirality saying (or sending) that they haven't found anything of worth, or the lone Barsam telling a rather outlandish tale of an alien looking similar to the Loroi which said Loroi made disappear?

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Zarya
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Re: Page 159: Bedroom Eyes

Post by Zarya »

The staff on the bridge of Tempest would be better informed, and I'd also go with the innate (unhuman!) "honesty" the Loroi have. It takes effort to hide information and I see no indication in the story that such an effort is made. When picking over the remains of the wreck the Tempest may even have actively shared information on what they'd found and why there was a reason to stick around. Just lingering in a dangerous battle zone - in which another strikegroup had been ambushed - would otherwise not have made much sense for the commanding officers of the other vessels.

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dragoongfa
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Re: Page 159: Bedroom Eyes

Post by dragoongfa »

People seem to forget that 'Prophet's Reason' has already reported everything there was to report to Azimol and the Union in general. Considering the workings of the Barsam and the part they take in the war effort (the Agumo Conference providing courier and other 'services' to the Union) it stands to reason that Mozin has already sent plenty of reports to every last Barsam polity he knows about. Hell some preachers may already be preaching about the discovery of the template species behind the Loroi.

novius
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Re: Page 159: Bedroom Eyes

Post by novius »

Thing is, there already seems to be something fishy going on. It could very much be that Tempo went along for the ride to make sure that Alex would disappear or have some accident on the way - or to pass on special orders to the captain of the Clearbrook if everything would have gone to plan.

But, the Clearbrook bailed out, the station is floating debris and the shuttle is dead in the water. Perhaps Tempo is as well aware that the Prophet's Reason would be the most likely chance to get out of this bind, and is forced to make her move before it is taken out of her hands.

Alex already noticed that she seemed to ignore him ever since the lights went out, but at that point he put it down to her passing on orders to the assembled Loroi. Perhaps she actually did, but the question is... what kind of orders?

I wouldn't be surprised if she turns out to be the antagonist in this story in the long run, and the upcoming pages would define the moment where the front lines become clear, setting the stage for chapter three.

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Arioch
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Re: Page 159: Bedroom Eyes

Post by Arioch »

If Tempo wanted Alex to quietly disappear, then publicly granting him diplomatic status, and making a point of doing it in front of allied witnesses, doesn't make much sense. If Stillstorm wanted Alex to disappear, entrusting this task to the very person whose actions have been working against this goal doesn't make much sense either.

boldilocks
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Re: Page 159: Bedroom Eyes

Post by boldilocks »

I'm not sure why people would expect a foreign diplomat (and a male at that) to be intimately involved in crisis management. At best he should be expecting a short briefing at some point, and Beryl's taken care of that.

zircher
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Re: Page 159: Bedroom Eyes

Post by zircher »

He's also a 'captain' and that might have a cultural significance.

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Werra
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Re: Page 159: Bedroom Eyes

Post by Werra »

Polite things like keeping the other party informed might not hold any meaning in Loroi society. They're telepaths. Their intend should be more or less clear to read to each other.
So a nicety that boils down to "busy rn, lol u blind pinko?!", is a waste of time for Loroi.

boldilocks
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Re: Page 159: Bedroom Eyes

Post by boldilocks »

zircher wrote:He's also a 'captain' and that might have a cultural significance.
That title seemed to ensure his protection from what I assume would have been further "aggressive" interrogation techniques.

Alex seems more and more to be in a Bren Cameron type situation. Effectively a minor functionary who will attain higher importance due to his abilities in dealing with situations that are imposed on his society (or his transplanted society) due to factors completely outside his control.

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orion1836
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Re: Page 159: Bedroom Eyes

Post by orion1836 »

boldilocks wrote:Alex seems more and more to be in a Bren Cameron type situation.
Glad I'm not the only one who read that series!

Only part I didn't like was that Cherryh took the 'humans are assholes' trope a little too far.

novius
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Re: Page 159: Bedroom Eyes

Post by novius »

Arioch wrote:If Tempo wanted Alex to quietly disappear, then publicly granting him diplomatic status, and making a point of doing it in front of allied witnesses, doesn't make much sense. If Stillstorm wanted Alex to disappear, entrusting this task to the very person whose actions have been working against this goal doesn't make much sense either.
Author's prerogative :) - Though, to those not knowing how the story pans out, the events so far might allow for a different interpretation, as in...

Alex was about to clam up and do the standard POW routine, offering nothing more than name and rank. And except Tempo, the Loroi know very little about proper interrogation techniques which don't involve mind-raping him. Tempo as a Mizol might have a somewhat better insight into alien psychology.

So, Stillstorm saw little use and lots of risks in keeping Alex around, and was about to do the sane thing in her position - get rid of him. Tempo, on the other hand, saw a bigger value in a tractable, docile Alex rather than a dead one and
  1. had to act fast to keep Stillstorm from doing something that Tempo herself believes to be a colossal mistake
  2. needed to earn some brownie points with Alex to garner his trust
So, even if her further intentions might be detrimental to Alex's wellbeing, that move on Tempest's bridge had been sort of desperate and rushed, but nonetheless brilliant. Then, she might have planned for Alex to be shipped off to some secret facility, as well as pumping him for any information he might freely offer for now and deflect any enquiries about his whereabouts until the dust settles.

It could have worked if the Shells hadn't picked that moment to launch a massive assault.

novius
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Re: Page 159: Bedroom Eyes

Post by novius »

But, when it comes to 'Bedroom eyes', Spiral is definitely not the first one. Far by not.

http://www.well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider123.html
http://www.well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider124.html

and, to a lesser extent..

http://www.well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider116.html

boldilocks
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Re: Page 159: Bedroom Eyes

Post by boldilocks »

novius wrote:But, when it comes to 'Bedroom eyes', Spiral is definitely not the first one. Far by not.

http://www.well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider123.html
http://www.well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider124.html

and, to a lesser extent..

http://www.well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider116.html
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