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How can the Loroi win? 
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Post Re: How can the Loroi win?
novius wrote:
Without another game changer,

Introducing big masculine male human muscles.
Bam! Pow!
Don't worry, ladies, these guns are for hire!


Sun Sep 22, 2019 2:46 am
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Post Re: How can the Loroi win?
Is Alex a descendant of Chuck, the Norris?

If not, the Historians will have to pass another piece of tech to the Loroi...

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Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:39 pm
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Post Re: How can the Loroi win?
Deus ex machina idea: loroi train Alex in telepathy and it appears humans can see Umiac through their invisibility. Alex become new farseer.

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Sun Sep 22, 2019 3:43 pm
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Post Re: How can the Loroi win?
Alex becomes advisor from the Humanity and uses T A C T I C S to help loroi win the war.


Sun Sep 22, 2019 7:58 pm
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Post Re: How can the Loroi win?
Zorg56 wrote:
Alex becomes advisor from the Humanity and uses T A C T I C S to help loroi win the war.

"OOoh, tell me more about this thing you humans call kiss- I mean strategy"


Sun Sep 22, 2019 9:42 pm
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Post Re: How can the Loroi win?
hi hi

"You see, your strategy up until now has relied on knowing where the enemy is, but I will teach you a new tactic, predicting where the enemy is."


Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:22 am
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Post Re: How can the Loroi win?
...or that greatest of all human skills, fecal dislocation (also known as, pulling something out of your ass at the last minute).


Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:26 pm
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Post Re: How can the Loroi win?
High levels of pattern recognition used for predictions of future actions your adversaries might be useful. Something that comes with facial and body reading parts of our brains... due to not being telepathic and having to read peoples minds indirectly.


Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:22 pm
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Post Re: How can the Loroi win?
Problem is, whatever Alex may do or may not do, it already seems to be too little, too late. The attack is already underway, and it looks like they'll be punching through any defense the Loroi could muster and steamroll the Union.

What could a single person do, especially since he's still under suspicion and, more importantly, marooned in a shuttle and being shot out of space as soon as he twitches?

No... I think the question shouldn't be "how could the Loroi win", because they simply can't anymore, but more like "how could they pick themselves up after they've received a severe thrashing"?

Maybe that's the point. The Loroi are getting a good serving of the humble pie and a firsthand lecture of the adage "beggars can't be choosers".


Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:26 pm
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Post Re: How can the Loroi win?
hi hi

We know from the insider that the Loroi have been building up massive reserves as well. But if they do end up going on the offensive in one last ditch effort, they need to find a way to not get bogged down once they push into Umiak territory like they did during the Semoset offensive.


Mon Sep 23, 2019 11:23 pm
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Post Re: How can the Loroi win?
Yes, the whole idea that the Loroi might loose is predicated on the idea that the Loroi haven't been building their own reserves for a while, as well as the idea that the Umiak are not completely over extended and this isn't just a victory push, but a desperation push.


Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:11 am
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Post Re: How can the Loroi win?
asaenvolk wrote:
Yes, the whole idea that the Loroi might loose is predicated on the idea that the Loroi haven't been building their own reserves for a while, as well as the idea that the Umiak are not completely over extended and this isn't just a victory push, but a desperation push.


Kikitik-27 seemed to be quite sure about their own position in the war, and I don't think Umiak are ones for false bravado or empty bluster.

Even if the Loroi have enough pushback that they could stem the tide, they'd still be fighting on their own territory and have lost even more of their industrial power. It would turn into another war of attrition, one where the Loroi are even worse off than before.

The more I think, the more I'm convinced that the title "Outsider" not just refers to the lone human, but the whole shuttle crew, because they're on their way to become everything that has been left of the Loroi Union.


Tue Sep 24, 2019 8:07 am
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Post Re: How can the Loroi win?
novius wrote:
Kikitik-27 seemed to be quite sure about their own position in the war, and I don't think Umiak are ones for false bravado or empty bluster.

It's true that they are supposed to be humble but that's about themselves individually, their support for the war effort of the state is something that they believe in with the whole of their being.


Tue Sep 24, 2019 11:45 am
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Post Re: How can the Loroi win?
Not to mention that both Stillstorm and Kikitik are each accomlished commanders. They're familiar with all manners of ruses.


"icekatze wrote:
"You see, your strategy up until now has relied on knowing where the enemy is, but I will teach you a new tactic, predicting where the enemy is."
This is one thing Alex can actually do for the Loroi. Since he comes from the human school of warfare, he's used to working without Farseers. While the Loroi should know the tools of that trade, they aren't as familiar with them.


Tue Sep 24, 2019 1:49 pm
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Post Re: How can the Loroi win?
Quote:
Kikitik-27 seemed to be quite sure about their own position in the war, and I don't think Umiak are ones for false bravado or empty bluster.


"Talker" is most certainly a blowhard, even if his race in general isn't, that one is.


Tue Sep 24, 2019 2:41 pm
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Post Re: How can the Loroi win?
asaenvolk wrote:
"Talker" is most certainly a blowhard, even if his race in general isn't, that one is.

Pride comes before a fall, is it?

As I see it, with this most recent assault proving successful to an extent, it's likely the Umiak will seek to press their advantage before it can be countered. The trick then will be countering them so thoroughly that you not only nullify their efforts, but counter any gains they've made, and strike a crippling blow against them in the process.

If the Loroi adopted a more guarded fleet stance, pulling interdiction fleets from the steppes, that would leave the Umiak more certain that they had the Loroi on the ropes, and probably more willing to over-commit to achieve another big KO assault before the Loroi can prepare non-farsensing defenses to warn against unforeseen attacks. The thing is that high industrial capacity is not instantaneous industrial capacity, the Umiak can build ships fast but not fast enough to strike before Loroi prepare, so if the Umiak want another bite at the apple before the Loroi are better prepared they'll need to put ships held in defense into a new gatecrasher force.

The next assault is the one that will change the course of the war.

The Loroi need a lot of luck and a solid prediction of where the enemy fleet will be, and then they need to catch them en route and destroy them completely. Annihilate them all as they jump into system, and then send that fleet to go destroy the Umiak worlds while they're in a weakened state of defense. Making a death-stack from the bulk of the Loroi fleet seems like the best way to ensure you have the firepower to pull this kind of counter-offensive off, especially if the enemy thinks you're on the defensive and not able to attempt an attack.

Since the Loroi can't both defend and attack because their industry simply can't manage it, they've got to be clever and desperate. Strike with almost everything and cripple the Umiak war machine.

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Wed Sep 25, 2019 6:15 am
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Post Re: How can the Loroi win?
The Loroi halt this offensive, hold the line, then follow Alex back to Humanti space, strip-mine and churn out whatever they can, and then attack the Umiak from the flank or even rear by following the Orgus. Human forces are sent to bolster home-sector defense. A two-pronged attack catches the Umiak off guard and they quickly vie for a cease-fire; a cease-fire that the Loroi begrudgingly accept because they don't have the forces to out-right occupy or destroy the Umiak.


Wed Sep 25, 2019 2:47 pm
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Post Re: How can the Loroi win?
I wonder if the Loroi will ever find out how thoroughly the Historians have inavded their and the Umiak's computer systems.
Once they find out, they'll be demanding why the Historians haven't been havocking the umiak's systems....

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charred steppes, borders of territories: page 59,
jump-map of local stars: page 121, larger map in Loroi: page 118,
System view Leido Crossroads: page 123


Wed Sep 25, 2019 11:40 pm
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Post Re: How can the Loroi win?
@krulle – yeah, you may be onto something.


Thu Sep 26, 2019 7:19 am
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Post Re: How can the Loroi win?
It might take another generation before possible Historian viruses percolate through enough Hierarchy data systems to make sure coverage is near 100%... and then activate them.
After all, we're talking about a nation that spans over 500 light years wide.

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Thu Sep 26, 2019 9:18 am
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Post Re: How can the Loroi win?
Are we certain that Loroi and Umiak systems are that easy to infiltrate?


Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:00 am
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Post Re: How can the Loroi win?
We don’t know, yet :lol:

(the human systems were!)


Thu Sep 26, 2019 10:15 am
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Post Re: How can the Loroi win?
Yeah, but humans have never met anything like the historians, and their tech isn't based on precursor technology that probably had met something like the historians.


Thu Sep 26, 2019 12:54 pm
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Post Re: How can the Loroi win?
Krulle wrote:
I wonder if the Loroi will ever find out how thoroughly the Historians have inavded their and the Umiak's computer systems.
Once they find out, they'll be demanding why the Historians haven't been havocking the umiak's systems....


According to the insider, the Historians were taken by surprise, when the Umiak attacked them. So, apparently, they are not that much up to date about their internal communication or fleet movements.

On the other side, however, it is suspicious that there was a kind of virus on board the Bellarmine & when they came across the battle between Loroi and Umiak a mysterious ship "happened" to show up and attack the Bellarmine. If that attack was deliberate, the attacker had to know who humans are & that they would show up in that system. The first suspect who might have had that knowledge would be the Historians.


Thu Sep 26, 2019 1:19 pm
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Post Re: How can the Loroi win?
Arent wrote:
Krulle wrote:
On the other side, however, it is suspicious that there was a kind of virus on board the Bellarmine & when they came across the battle between Loroi and Umiak a mysterious ship "happened" to show up and attack the Bellarmine. If that attack was deliberate, the attacker had to know who humans are & that they would show up in that system. The first suspect who might have had that knowledge would be the Historians.


AFAWK, there wasn't a virus aboard Bellarmine.
I thought the Historian Construct simply intruded upon salvaged data systems from Bellarmine's wreck.

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Thu Sep 26, 2019 2:42 pm
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