Page 164: Smells like buttocks!

[Krulle]

I dom't think the bugs would bow. the Klackons would neverbow to a race that would use them as ball-like toys...

Let's wait for the Atarans to remove them for us....

[Murph]

Eager for 165. Very eager.

[Hālian]

I think that Spiral put it best in regards to Tempo's approach:

Smell like buttocks!

Remember that Stillstorm called her dishonest in regards to how she approached Alex, heavily implying that they saw more eye to eye than Tempo would like Alex to believe, Tempo is still on the side that considers Alex and Humanity a threat; she just wants to hang him from his own petard. Which puts her panels up to this point in a whole new light.

In that case keeping a historian tag-along a secret is turning out to be an increasingly bad idea. Perhaps even a trap?

Bad idea, trap or ace in the hole, depending how the dices roll.

"Dice" is already plural.

[Murph]

I think Tempo is playing 4D chess compared to everyone else's 3D chess.

[Philly]

But, who are the good guys (or gals) and who are the bad guys? I suspect the Umiak are bad guys, but the others? Hmmmmm.

If we are just talking about the setting for this comic then both Loroi and Umiak are the bad guys.

The Umiak will enslave, a universally bad thing, your entire race and gear it towards the production of anything military-related. If you resist, you get genocide. (Universally bad thing number two.)

The Loroi bully any races to join them because they refuse to acknowledge the right of another race/nation to not involve themselves in conflict. If you do join them you are basically a second rate "citizen". If you don't you get genocide.

Humanity is right now just plain fucked.

[cacambo43]

But, who are the good guys (or gals) and who are the bad guys? I suspect the Umiak are bad guys, but the others? Hmmmmm.

If we are just talking about the setting for this comic then both Loroi and Umiak are the bad guys.

The Umiak will enslave, a universally bad thing, your entire race and gear it towards the production of anything military-related. If you resist, you get genocide. (Universally bad thing number two.)

The Loroi bully any races to join them because they refuse to acknowledge the right of another race/nation to not involve themselves in conflict. If you do join them you are basically a second rate "citizen". If you don't you get genocide.

Humanity is right now just plain fucked.

It's complicated. Both the Umiak and Loroi could be seen as "bad" from general Human standards, but "good" and "bad" don't translate neatly into allies or enemies. For example, the Soviets were instrumental in the ultimate success of the second world war, and we were allies (after 1940). But I don't think anyone in military, intelligence, or State Department capacities were under any illusion that the Soviets weren't "bad" guys.

CJSF

[Krulle]

But, who are the good guys (or gals) and who are the bad guys? I suspect the Umiak are bad guys, but the others? Hmmmmm.

The Loroi bully any races to join them because they refuse to acknowledge the right of another race/nation to not involve themselves in conflict. If you do join them you are basically a second rate "citizen". If you don't you get genocide.

Well, that paragraph of yours is equally true for the Umiak, who also deny the right of neutrality...
Also, the Loroi used Genocide only against those who kept resisting, despite having lost the wars for independence.
Everyone loses patience sometime...


Be with us, or be against us...

[CF2]

But, who are the good guys (or gals) and who are the bad guys? I suspect the Umiak are bad guys, but the others? Hmmmmm.

It's all shades of grey I'd wager, but from the perspective of Humanity the Loroi are the unquestionably better choice -- so long as they win.

[SaintofM]

Both sides I would consider a Lawful Evil.

Umiak work themselves to death and leave their worlds an ecological wasteland on par with a dystopian post apocalyptic movie, and expect that of their allies. THe ancestors of the Modern Umiak were brutal and savage, and and this continues today.


The Loroi see themselves as honorable warriors, but so did knights and samurai and both could act like the thugs of a mob boss. While humans in this setting have firsthand evidence of what the Umiak can do with their first extraterrestrial contact, they also know Loroai are the kind of people that would think the Death Star is an awesome idea, lets make one.

[Krulle]

Well, ow we have something to give to the Loroi, the plans.
And to safeguard our long-term interests, we won't tell them about the cooling vent shaft.

[boldilocks]

Wouldn't death stars be too static to be a useful weapon in the outsider universe?
It's one killshot in the OT was closer range than earth/moon, which is the max range of a loroi ship, and it doesn't fire light-speed projectiles/beams.
It would effectively have to bear the hits from a loroi fleet until it could reach firing distance, though I'm not sure if that would provide a real problem for it. Presumably it's turbolaser arrays and hundreds of thousands of tie-fighter complements would function as anti-missile defence.

[Arioch]

Wouldn't death stars be too static to be a useful weapon in the outsider universe?
It's one killshot in the OT was closer range than earth/moon, which is the max range of a loroi ship, and it doesn't fire light-speed projectiles/beams.
It would effectively have to bear the hits from a loroi fleet until it could reach firing distance, though I'm not sure if that would provide a real problem for it. Presumably it's turbolaser arrays and hundreds of thousands of tie-fighter complements would function as anti-missile defence.

It doesn't seem to me that the Death Star was a very useful weapon even in the Star Wars universe. Death Stars are 0 for 3 defending themselves from enemy attacks.

It's a terror weapon anyway, which generally means it's of limited military use in the first place. Being able to destroy a planet isn't very useful if your goal is to rule an empire.

[cacambo43]

Wouldn't death stars be too static to be a useful weapon in the outsider universe?
It's one killshot in the OT was closer range than earth/moon, which is the max range of a loroi ship, and it doesn't fire light-speed projectiles/beams.
It would effectively have to bear the hits from a loroi fleet until it could reach firing distance, though I'm not sure if that would provide a real problem for it. Presumably it's turbolaser arrays and hundreds of thousands of tie-fighter complements would function as anti-missile defence.

It doesn't seem to me that the Death Star was a very useful weapon even in the Star Wars universe. Death Stars are 0 for 3 defending themselves from enemy attacks.

It's a terror weapon anyway, which generally means it's of limited military use in the first place. Being able to destroy a planet isn't very useful if your goal is to rule an empire.

"Do what I say or I'll destroy your entire planet!" might hold sway with some civilizations.

CJSF

[Arioch]

"Do what I say or I'll destroy your entire planet!" might hold sway with some civilizations.

Right, but that's a political and not a military objective. But the power to destroy is not the power to control. Once they call your bluff, you either back down or you have no prize. It obviously didn't work in the case of the Death Stars; the successful destruction of planets did not achieve the goal of "keeping systems in line."

As a matter of history, at least recent history, terror weapons usually don't work very well in achieving the stated objectives of those using them.

[cacambo43]

"Do what I say or I'll destroy your entire planet!" might hold sway with some civilizations.

Right, but that's a political and not a military objective. But the power to destroy is not the power to control. Once they call your bluff, you either back down or you have no prize. It obviously didn't work in the case of the Death Stars; the successful destruction of planets did not achieve the goal of "keeping systems in line."

As a matter of history, at least recent history, terror weapons usually don't work very well in achieving the stated objectives of those using them.

I know you are likely right in this case, but I would point out that the Death Stars didn't work because that's how the stories were written.

And more to the point here, I really do appreciate the detail and breadth you've put into the Outside universe, but sometimes there are just things we don't have to know and you don't have to figure out to move the story forward. And, as I (and others) have said before, at this point I'd rather your energies be put into getting pages out and telling that story than detailing the inner workings of the waste management of a Loroi flight-suit, for example.

We have a good sense of the general politics and philosophies of the players involved to get this show further on the road.

CJSF

[icekatze]

hi hi

As a matter of human psychology, threats tend to increase the chance of an opponent fighting back rather than decrease. It's hard to say what nature of alien psychology might be though.

Also, as a matter of human psychology, one shouldn't underestimate the possibility of people to choose "No Deal," when faced with the Ultimatum Game.

[Krulle]

Also, as a matter of human psychology, one shouldn't underestimate the possibility of people to choose "No Deal," when faced with the Ultimatum Game.

As the BrExit mess proves...

[SaintofM]

If a situation is desperate enough people will do some pretty crazy things. The Umiak jump around a white dwarf star might be like such a thing.

Or the desire to harness the power of the atom in WW2, or the use of suicide pilots to crash airplains into ships near the end of the same war. Tere is also the Donner Party of 5 joke.

Even when things are not, people are not always sane. The Madness that goes on on Black Friday, or say when people thought Twinkies were going away forever, or the Szechuan Sauce fiasco with McDonalds.