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Page 165: Dalid is Dalid 
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Post Page 165: Dalid is Dalid
New Comic Posted: https://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider165.html

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Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:35 am
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Post Re: Page 165: Dalid is Dalid
Loroi use idioms in their language? Surprising, I wouldn't have thought they would because within their own culture they would just "speak" telepathically and outside their culture the idiom would be meaningless.

Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra, indeed.


Mon Nov 11, 2019 5:00 am
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Post Re: Page 165: Dalid is Dalid
Dalid is Dalid...

The past is the past, or something similar, I would guess.

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Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:32 am
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Post Re: Page 165: Dalid is Dalid
Krulle wrote:
Dalid is Dalid...

The past is the past, or something similar, I would guess.


I suspect it's more like norse "fate". It is already determined and cannot be changed.


Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:43 am
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Post Re: Page 165: Dalid is Dalid
sounds suspiciously like . . "it is what it is"


Mon Nov 11, 2019 6:49 am
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Post Re: Page 165: Dalid is Dalid
"People die when they are killed."


Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:27 am
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Post Re: Page 165: Dalid is Dalid
The word dalid is listed in lexicon: luck, fortune

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Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:28 am
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Post Re: Page 165: Dalid is Dalid
Wyrd. Ones fate is written.


Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:58 am
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Post Re: Page 165: Dalid is Dalid
luck/fortune is luck/fortune

Though weaving fortune sounds very reminiscent of the Moirai of Greek mythology:
https://www.greekmythology.com/Other_Go ... fates.html

Alex is going to have to learn to act natural, because once he's out of this tense shuttle situation, he can't stay tight lipped or it will indicate a cause for distrust that they will want to know about.

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Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:10 am
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Post Re: Page 165: Dalid is Dalid
I have a million questions, and Jardin is all "Naw, I'm good."


Mon Nov 11, 2019 3:19 pm
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Post Re: Page 165: Dalid is Dalid
Ahhggghhggh

How awful to have a crapload of questions and be too afraid to ask them. Glad I’m not this guy, who probably expected to do the diplomatic equivalent of lurking at the back and hoping to see something useful.

Interesting to see that Talon and Spiral do proverbs. And even different (archaic?) phrasing. I guess familiar words can make a comfortable groove in a Loroi mind, too.

I keep getting surprised that Talon and Spiral are so vocal, but then I remember they’re fighter pilots and probably spend a lot of time on the radio.

Who here remembers the communications training exercise where you describe a goemetric pattern to you partner, who must reproduce it? Imagine the Loroi version:
  • In sanzai range: “Done”
  • Outside sanzai range: “I will shred this building into little pieces and plow them into the ground.”

Ohhh, idea :idea: ! The Mizol decide that humanity’s lotai have exposed flaws in their skill set. In an effort to upskill the next generation, a Mizol diral is divided up and dropped across all the continents of Earth. How long will it take to reunite? Will this challenge bring them together or divide them forever? Why do the local humans keep laughing? Where can one find the ‘lightening holes’ which are so critical to this undertaking? Is a ‘fetch quest’ a real human tradition or, as you have come to fear, some kind of hazing ritual? Finally, why were you given Antartica?


Mon Nov 11, 2019 8:59 pm
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Post Re: Page 165: Dalid is Dalid
"Fear profits a man nothing."

I disagree. Fear is healthy. It teaches caution and respect of the unknown or that which we have no control over. It informs us when we must favor security and survival over taking unnecessary risk and reckless abandon. Foolhardiness also profits a man nothing where wise tact would have served him better. Rather, I would suggest that it is "Irrational fear that profits a man nothing".


Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:04 pm
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Post Re: Page 165: Dalid is Dalid
Dirty Yasuki wrote:
"Fear profits a man nothing."

I disagree. Fear is healthy. It teaches caution and respect of the unknown or that which we have no control over. It informs us when we must favor security and survival over taking unnecessary risk and reckless abandon. Foolhardiness also profits a man nothing where wise tact would have served him better. Rather, I would suggest that it is "Irrational fear that profits a man nothing".


There are a lot of much more silly views in science fiction. Just think of the old "fear leads to hate and hate leads to the dark side of the force" in star wars. If your think about it, it's completely absurd.


Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:47 pm
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Post Re: Page 165: Dalid is Dalid
Dirty Yasuki wrote:
I disagree. Fear is healthy. It teaches caution and respect of the unknown or that which we have no control over. It informs us when we must favor security and survival over taking unnecessary risk and reckless abandon. Foolhardiness also profits a man nothing where wise tact would have served him better. Rather, I would suggest that it is "Irrational fear that profits a man nothing".

I'd argue that there is an element of fear which is inherently irrational. Fear is an emotion. The opposite of fear is not foolhardiness or reckless abandon; it is confidence. You can be cautious and have respect for danger without being fearful. Fear is not healthy or wise. Fear is the mind-killer.

And in particular, in the context of the story, fear serves no useful purpose in their current situation.

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Mon Nov 11, 2019 9:52 pm
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Post Re: Page 165: Dalid is Dalid
Arioch wrote:
I'd argue that there is an element of fear which is inherently irrational. Fear is an emotion. The opposite of fear is not foolhardiness or reckless abandon; it is confidence. You can be cautious and have respect for danger without being fearful. Fear is not healthy or wise. Fear is the mind-killer.


Granted, it is an emotion. And yet, what is the concept of danger and harm to one who does not understand what it is to be afraid of danger? Let alone why one should be cautious in the first place in the face of danger? That instinct to avoid danger gives reason to be cautious which is ingrained in every animal on earth since the dawn of time and has served many well throughout the course of life by simple virtue of their fear of death/illness. (i.e. survival instinct) Maybe not much of a life compared to the average sentient human, but a relative success in most respects as far as nature is concerned, at least.

Indeed, you can teach someone to be cautious in the face of danger, but without imparting that element of "fear" the lesson might not be as effective nor would it be as memorable for some. Good reference to a good novel, but my problem with that saying, as pithy though it may be, is that it would probably be more accurate to say "Fear may be the mind-killer, but only if you let it rule you". (Admittedly, not as pleasing to the literary minded) After all, other literary scholars have posited that Bravery is not the absence of fear, but the willingness and confidence to act in-spite of it.

By the same token, the instinct to be frightened by and approach a snake with caution has been documented as being seemingly-ingrained in human beings as young as children who are too young to be taught how to speak, let alone what a snake is and why they should be afraid of it.

Arioch wrote:
And in particular, in the context of the story, fear serves no useful purpose in their current situation.


Perhaps, and I agree. But, as far as semantics go, I would say worry, which is rooted in fear, is more accurate to describe Alex's current mood. Again, I would say irrational fear does not serve them in this context, but they are not without reason to worry about their current predicament, which is valid I would say. Although it still might not profit them much by worrying about their situation either, so I suppose in that respect worry is no different from fear.


Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:47 pm
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Post Re: Page 165: Dalid is Dalid
It feels like different people call different things fear.
One meant mind killing emotion. Others like I estimate danger, this data could be called "fear"

Fear is not known only to people who are completely devoid of imagination

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Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:15 pm
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Post Re: Page 165: Dalid is Dalid
Both extreme fear and reckless abandon are dangerous. Extreme fear just stuns you and renders you passive even when you need to act to avoid or counter the dangerous situation, and reckless abandon just lets you ignore what will get you killed.

Fear in moderation is good. It makes you stop and evaluate the risks of a situation, but courage is needed as well, to keep you moving if the risks are acceptable - and only just then, but not when you think the risks are acceptable... there is a difference.

Though, given what is at stake, namely humanity's survival, the scale of 'acceptable' on risks could be somewhat skewed - after all, Alex knew from the very start that this most probably would be a one-way trip. Though he might have thought that it would be a mission of 'jump into the crossfire and say hello to those aliens more agreeable to the humans continued existence', not a mission where he'd end up in what more and more looks like a political quagmire.


Mon Nov 11, 2019 11:58 pm
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Post Re: Page 165: Dalid is Dalid
Of course Tempo would prompt him to ask questions. Every question he asks would be a chance for her to learn more about the humans in turn.

And Beryl? I'm pretty sure that she can read Alex well enough by now to know that he's got something weighing on his mind, but without sanzai, she had to ask out loud.


Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:04 am
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Post Re: Page 165: Dalid is Dalid
Arent wrote:
Dirty Yasuki wrote:
"Fear profits a man nothing."

I disagree. Fear is healthy. It teaches caution and respect of the unknown or that which we have no control over. It informs us when we must favor security and survival over taking unnecessary risk and reckless abandon. Foolhardiness also profits a man nothing where wise tact would have served him better. Rather, I would suggest that it is "Irrational fear that profits a man nothing".


There are a lot of much more silly views in science fiction. Just think of the old "fear leads to hate and hate leads to the dark side of the force" in star wars. If your think about it, it's completely absurd.

That's just Lucas and his despicable anti-hatred agenda.


Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:04 am
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Post Re: Page 165: Dalid is Dalid
Alex has been quite talkative up to this point, so the change in behaviour would be noticed by Beryl. He also looked sideways before lying, which might be a tell that Mizol know to look for.


Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:08 am
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Post Re: Page 165: Dalid is Dalid
I find it makes sense that they have little sayings. Most peoples on Earth have proverbs or little sayings that have a grain of truth in them

In War, Fathers bury their sons
When the Cat's away the mice are at play
When you step in the cow field check your boots.
Never Argue with an idiot; they will bring you down to their level and beat you with experience (Mark Twain)
The length of a film should be directly related to the endurance of the human bladder. (Alfred Hitchcock)

They are quick easy ways to teach a lesson and keep it in one's mind.

I am also curious if Spiral, which has been as goofy as Ghidra's Kevin head at this point, will wax poetics with Jardin as she answers his proverb with her own.


Tue Nov 12, 2019 1:10 am
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Post Re: Page 165: Dalid is Dalid
My favorite phrase comes from this man: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silvestre_S._Herrera

"Courage is being scared to death, but doing your job anyway".


Tue Nov 12, 2019 4:03 am
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Post Re: Page 165: Dalid is Dalid
Arioch wrote:
[…] Fear is the mind-killer.

A human referencing the Bene Gesserit’s litany against fear would have been pretty cool (and over the top now I think of it).

Arioch wrote:
And in particular, in the context of the story, fear serves no useful purpose in their current situation.

100% agree


Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:04 am
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Post Re: Page 165: Dalid is Dalid
There's also the academic version: I shall not waffle. Waffle is the mind-killer.


Tue Nov 12, 2019 11:13 am
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Post Re: Page 165: Dalid is Dalid
kiwi wrote:
There's also the academic version: I shall not waffle. Waffle is the mind-killer.


Or the cook's: I shall waffle, for waffles are delicious.


Tue Nov 12, 2019 12:13 pm
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