Page 169: The most messed up!

Discussion regarding the Outsider webcomic, science, technology and science fiction.

Moderator: Outsider Moderators

User avatar
SaintofM
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:01 pm
Location: In a Galaxy Far Far away

Re: Page 169: The most messed up!

Post by SaintofM »

Arent wrote:
Werra wrote:
Arent wrote: I do dimly remember that Arioch implied somewhere that Alex might be a rather powerful "telepath/psionic/whatever". I also havn't yet seen any GURPS sheet of him, which is suspicious.

But maybe I also simply misinterpreted his comment.
Are you perhabs thinking of Arioch stating that Alex sensing Fireblade says more about Fireblades psionic strength than about humanities immunity?
Reading the comment (For Science [134]) again, Arioch likened Alex more to Holdo (It was a star wars joke) and not to Luke Skywalker. So, he did not really imply that Alex/humans had any greater powers.
Great, now I am imagining Fireblade to tell Alex to Hold the Door as the Umiakes invade the station.

User avatar
SVlad
Posts: 305
Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:43 pm
Location: Saint-Petersburg, Russia

Re: Page 169: The most messed up!

Post by SVlad »

Arent wrote:I also havn't yet seen any GURPS sheet of him, which is suspicious.
There was one. But it's a rough draft.
SpoilerShow
Image
Outsider in Russian
Image

User avatar
Werra
Posts: 840
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:27 pm

Re: Page 169: The most messed up!

Post by Werra »

Oh? Where is that from?

I find it interesting that Alex psionic resistance is at 10, while Tempo for example has a telepathic power of 20. Does that mean that under the rules of GURPS, Tempo has a shot of overcoming Alex resistance?

Edit:
Also, comparing the strength scores of Tempo (10), Beryl (9), Fblade (12) and Alex is funny. How large is a one point difference in GURPS?

Arent
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:42 pm

Re: Page 169: The most messed up!

Post by Arent »

SVlad wrote:
Arent wrote:I also havn't yet seen any GURPS sheet of him, which is suspicious.
There was one. But it's a rough draft.
SpoilerShow
Image
That looks a bit like there is a part missing:
SpoilerShow
Image

boldilocks
Posts: 669
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 3:27 pm

Re: Page 169: The most messed up!

Post by boldilocks »

Werra wrote:Oh? Where is that from?

I find it interesting that Alex psionic resistance is at 10, while Tempo for example has a telepathic power of 20. Does that mean that under the rules of GURPS, Tempo has a shot of overcoming Alex resistance?

Edit:
Also, comparing the strength scores of Tempo (10), Beryl (9), Fblade (12) and Alex is funny. How large is a one point difference in GURPS?
Strength scores in gurps are set as 10 being the baseline for the species, apparently. So Alex' 10 could mean he's physically stronger than Fblade's 12 if we assume that the loroi species is physically weaker than humans on average.

Reference:
https://gurps.fandom.com/wiki/Attribute ... attributes

Based on that, it means Beryl is below average strength, fitting for a techie, while Fblade is 20% stronger than the average Loroi.
Also: turns out Alex is basically aristotle.

User avatar
Werra
Posts: 840
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 8:27 pm

Re: Page 169: The most messed up!

Post by Werra »

Wait, how does GURPS deal mechanically with something like arm wrestling between two species?

User avatar
Arioch
Site Admin
Posts: 4486
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:19 am
Location: San Jose, CA
Contact:

Re: Page 169: The most messed up!

Post by Arioch »

ST is absolute in GURPS, it's not relative. A species may have a higher than normal ST (so, for example, a species with a +2 ST would be 12 baseline, which is figured into the cost of the species), but two individuals of whatever species that have the same ST value have the same strength.

Here's a PDF of the "Lite" version of GURPS if you're curious: https://well-of-souls.com/temp/gurpslite.pdf The section regarding feats of strength is on page 23. (Note that this is from an older edition of GURPS; the current version sucks.)

The character sheet for Alex isn't posted because it's incomplete and inaccurate. I wouldn't recommend drawing a lot of conclusions from it.

Arent
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:42 pm

Re: Page 169: The most messed up!

Post by Arent »

Arioch wrote: The character sheet for Alex isn't posted because it's incomplete and inaccurate. I wouldn't recommend drawing a lot of conclusions from it.
One conclusion one might immediately draw is that psionic resistance is a trait of humans in general, not specifically of Alex.

User avatar
orion1836
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:38 pm

Re: Page 169: The most messed up!

Post by orion1836 »

One missing stat...

Attractiveness: Kirkian :mrgreen:

User avatar
Arioch
Site Admin
Posts: 4486
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:19 am
Location: San Jose, CA
Contact:

Re: Page 169: The most messed up!

Post by Arioch »

orion1836 wrote:One missing stat...

Attractiveness: Kirkian :mrgreen:
That would be like a 500 point advantage... :D

Krulle
Posts: 1413
Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 9:14 am

Re: Page 169: The most messed up!

Post by Krulle »

It's what I stumbled over too.
So, is Alex attractive even for a Loroi according to this GuRPS sheet?
Vote for Outsider on TWC: Image
charred steppes, borders of territories: page 59,
jump-map of local stars: page 121, larger map in Loroi: page 118,
System view Leido Crossroads: page 123, after the battle page 195

StarCruiser
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:21 am

Re: Page 169: The most messed up!

Post by StarCruiser »

Somehow appropriate:

Image

User avatar
orion1836
Posts: 399
Joined: Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:38 pm

Re: Page 169: The most messed up!

Post by orion1836 »

StarCruiser wrote:Somehow appropriate:

Image
Beat me to the punch, lol.


Arent
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:42 pm

Re: Page 169: The most messed up!

Post by Arent »

I think it's really funny how in the 1960s you had these tough guys, Kirk, Bond, Old Shatterhand etc., who shot first, asked questions later, got every girl, were damn good looking, had no issues whatsoever. There was no problem a well placed bullet couldn't solve & if that was not enough, you could always have a date with the daughter of the supervillain, who immediately switched sides to support the hero :mrgreen:

And then came Captain "let's talk about it" Picard :shock:

StarCruiser
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Feb 07, 2017 12:21 am

Re: Page 169: The most messed up!

Post by StarCruiser »

Thing is - that image of Kirk as a shoot-first, ask questions later, always gets the girl type isn't entirely correct...

He just as often talked, or otherwise figured his way out of a bad situation - i.e. used his wits. Yes, that means he occasionally talked a computer into suicide with a quick course in logic that even Spock was impressed by.

User avatar
Arioch
Site Admin
Posts: 4486
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:19 am
Location: San Jose, CA
Contact:

Re: Page 169: The most messed up!

Post by Arioch »

StarCruiser wrote:Thing is - that image of Kirk as a shoot-first, ask questions later, always gets the girl type isn't entirely correct...
Yeah, it's a false premise. I think if you cataloged all the episodes and logged how many times force was used versus how many times problems were solved diplomatically, I think Kirk and Picard would probably come out pretty much the same.

And yeah, Kirk got more girls, but it's hard to get girls when you're not on the away team.

Arent
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:42 pm

Re: Page 169: The most messed up!

Post by Arent »

StarCruiser wrote:Thing is - that image of Kirk as a shoot-first, ask questions later, always gets the girl type isn't entirely correct...

He just as often talked, or otherwise figured his way out of a bad situation - i.e. used his wits. Yes, that means he occasionally talked a computer into suicide with a quick course in logic that even Spock was impressed by.
A better comparison would be to count how many people Kirk killed and how many girls he got, and compare this to Picard.

But I get what you want to say.

User avatar
SaintofM
Posts: 163
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2019 8:01 pm
Location: In a Galaxy Far Far away

Re: Page 169: The most messed up!

Post by SaintofM »

SHatner and Picard had two different ideologies on romance. Riker in the first few seasons was more like kirk in that regard. Its technically a female of the species, it technically has hole. As long as its mutually fun for both parties, have fun.

Picard is more of a romantic, thus I think he's only had the hots for three women in the Next Generation series: Crusher, who the two never really worked out as she married his best friend and felt it would be a betrayal to his memory if he did the comforting the widow cliche. There was one who was a thief/archaeologist who was basically opposites attract. The last one was in the third live action next gen movie who made him feel young.

That and his private life is his private life and he likes it that way.

Murph
Posts: 82
Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2016 1:12 am

Re: Page 169: The most messed up!

Post by Murph »

Arent wrote:I think it's really funny how in the 1960s you had these tough guys, Kirk, Bond, Old Shatterhand etc., who shot first, asked questions later, got every girl, were damn good looking, had no issues whatsoever. There was no problem a well placed bullet couldn't solve & if that was not enough, you could always have a date with the daughter of the supervillain, who immediately switched sides to support the hero :mrgreen:

And then came Captain "let's talk about it" Picard :shock:
Yes, they were what Robert Heinlein called "Competent Men", they did not worry if their half-caf, soy mocha latte frappachino was served properly, they went out and did things, and did not worry if they might offend someone. They saw the job that needed doing, and went ahead and did it. They were not "in touch" with their feelings, concerned with "privilege", or overly worried about anything other than the price of failure. Also they were like H. Beam Piper's characters (the best Science Fiction author ever....). They understood that sometimes problems were handled with fists, a bullet, a phaser, or a thermonuclear weapon if diplomacy was failing. My favorite H. Beam Piper quote: "Diplomacy operates on credit, and at some point you realize that you have to pay up".

Arent
Posts: 264
Joined: Sat Jan 24, 2015 8:42 pm

Re: Page 169: The most messed up!

Post by Arent »

Murph wrote:
Arent wrote:I think it's really funny how in the 1960s you had these tough guys, Kirk, Bond, Old Shatterhand etc., who shot first, asked questions later, got every girl, were damn good looking, had no issues whatsoever. There was no problem a well placed bullet couldn't solve & if that was not enough, you could always have a date with the daughter of the supervillain, who immediately switched sides to support the hero :mrgreen:

And then came Captain "let's talk about it" Picard :shock:
Yes, they were what Robert Heinlein called "Competent Men", they did not worry if their half-caf, soy mocha latte frappachino was served properly, they went out and did things, and did not worry if they might offend someone. They saw the job that needed doing, and went ahead and did it. They were not "in touch" with their feelings, concerned with "privilege", or overly worried about anything other than the price of failure. Also they were like H. Beam Piper's characters (the best Science Fiction author ever....). They understood that sometimes problems were handled with fists, a bullet, a phaser, or a thermonuclear weapon if diplomacy was failing. My favorite H. Beam Piper quote: "Diplomacy operates on credit, and at some point you realize that you have to pay up".
Well, I just wanted to point out that there has been a rather obvious shift in the depiction of heroes. To a certain extent, you could argue that the classical, strong, good looking, always confident, always winning, always getting the girl staple heroes became 'boring' after some time. However, the constant 'let's talk about it' attitude of 'modern heroes' aka 'Wesley Crusher' gets boring as well.

Post Reply