Human/Loroi Differences In Culture

[inxsi]

Also, having enough loroi to have a whole caste built around having eidetic memory is probably big enough to be mentioned.

[Bamax]

To what degree is rascism an issue among Loroi if at all? Clearly they have different race colors, albeit less than humans.

Or does being virtually all-knowing telepaths more or less help nulify rascism for the most part?

Clearly class or lack of it, and caste as well are matters of pride and potential prejudice.

But that's not rascism because it is not based on race.

[Arioch]

To what degree is rascism an issue among Loroi if at all? Clearly they have different race colors, albeit less than humans.

I think that a certain amount of tribalism will be inherent in any species that lived in territorial tribes. Being able to distinguish your tribe from "the other" is a matter of survival. I think that how much this inherent prejudice pervades modern society depends on whether the culture reinforces or diminishes it. The Loroi have many different cultures, so there is no single answer to this question for the Loroi.

I'm not sure whether telepathy makes this better or worse. It makes for potentially deeper communication with foreigners, but its limited range (and potential as an avenue of telepathic attack) also tends to make Loroi communities more insular.

There have been racial tensions in the history of Deinar, with the Tadan & Barraid traditionally viewing the Login as barbarians. They never got as far as slavery, however (Loroi making for very dangerous captives).

[Werra]

What about racism between the sister worlds and their descendants?
What was the reaction of Loroi society to the highland Perreinids?

Are there any characteristics ascribed to members of certain subgroups, such as Perreinids or Tabenids?

[Arioch]

What about racism between the sister worlds and their descendants?
What was the reaction of Loroi society to the highland Perreinids?

Are there any characteristics ascribed to members of certain subgroups, such as Perreinids or Tabenids?

Sure, but I don't think that stereotypes (which are inevitable) necessarily rise to the level of "racism." Deinar had a very modern society by the time of contact, and most Deinar Loroi were very excited to meet long-lost kin, and perhaps learn more about their own mysterious origins. There will always be unpleasant individuals who turn to matters of ethnicity to use for insult, and there will always be those who perceive a slight even when none was intended, but I think that's probably true in any society.

You can probably imagine the stereotypes: Tabenid are backward, superstitious hayseeds, Perreinid are shifty double-dealers with outrageous tastes in food, and Deinarid are bossy and patronizing despite being of questionable intelligence.

[Bamax]

What about racism between the sister worlds and their descendants?
What was the reaction of Loroi society to the highland Perreinids?

Are there any characteristics ascribed to members of certain subgroups, such as Perreinids or Tabenids?

Sure, but I don't think that stereotypes (which are inevitable) necessarily rise to the level of "racism." Deinar had a very modern society by the time of contact, and most Deinar Loroi were very excited to meet long-lost kin, and perhaps learn more about their own mysterious origins. There will always be unpleasant individuals who turn to matters of ethnicity to use for insult, and there will always be those who perceive a slight even when none was intended, but I think that's probably true in any society.

You can probably imagine the stereotypes: Tabenid are backward, superstitious hayseeds, Perreinid are shifty double-dealers with outrageous tastes in food, and Deinarid are bossy and patronizing despite being of questionable intelligence.

Yeah I see Beryl has some of that, and that is not a compliment to her, nothwitstanding what Beryl is good at of course. She's hardly all bad, just flawed.

What I liked about the pilot girls was just how down to Earth they were. No pretense of sophistication at all.

Spiral is not from Taben if I recall correctly but trained there, but Talon is.

At any rate, given Talon's comments on Spiral, Spiral could very well be a country folk kind of gal.

[Krulle]

A planet is large.
While someone from Deinar might see all Taben Loroi as culturally backwards, within Deinar you will have city girls, big city girls, and country girls; with all the associated associations.

But I think telepathy and the communal upbringing will mean, the girls get to know each other better than we humans can do.
And that will tear barriers down faster than anything else.


Imagine mobbing someone, and immediately feel the telepathic "hurt" yourself.
I imagine children stop such behaviour much faster than when you have to educate them what they're doing to the other kids.

only marginally belonging to this discussion:

SpoilerShow

The topic of Human telepathy is slightly touched upon in the "Eden" short stories of Peter F. Hamilton; part of the "Reality Dysfunction" series; where humanity has developed an artificial telepathy genetics, and a group of Humans have "spliced" it into their genomes, so the Children are born with telepathy. And the "Edenists" report a near total stop of any form of mobbing between the Children in Kindergarten and school.
Leaving the "manipulating genetics is DANGEROUS! aside, it's part of the story there - resulting in quite some misunderstandings between the now separating human "factions" (in how it actually works, and how it influences the communities).
It's worse in the "Revelation Space" series of Alastair Reynolds, where telepathy is achieved through technical means (mind reading computers) - and a war of destruction by "baseline" Humans and the cybernetic "Conjoiners" (who are very open to all forms of experimentation on their bodies - and thus have been imprisoned on Mars by the baseliners - the story of their escape is extraordinary (although only a short part in another story))

[Arioch]

Yeah I see Beryl has some of that, and that is not a compliment to her, nothwitstanding what Beryl is good at of course. She's hardly all bad, just flawed.

Beryl isn't from any of those places I mentioned.

A planet is large.
While someone from Deinar might see all Taben Loroi as culturally backwards, within Deinar you will have city girls, big city girls, and country girls; with all the associated associations.

But I think telepathy and the communal upbringing will mean, the girls get to know each other better than we humans can do.
And that will tear barriers down faster than anything else.

Imagine mobbing someone, and immediately feel the telepathic "hurt" yourself.
I imagine children stop such behaviour much faster than when you have to educate them what they're doing to the other kids.

Naturally, there will be all kinds of subcultures, even within individual nation-states.

I think telepathy is a double-edged sword when it comes to prejudice. On the one hand, it will be out in the open, and someone who meant no harm will know that she caused some. On the other hand, someone who did mean harm can know for sure that the blow landed. Children can be very kind, but they can also be extremely cruel.

[dragoongfa]

I think telepathy is a double-edged sword when it comes to prejudice. On the one hand, it will be out in the open, and someone who meant no harm will know that she caused some. On the other hand, someone who did mean harm can know for sure that the blow landed. Children can be very kind, but they can also be extremely cruel.

Left on their own devices children are psychopathic assholes. I still remember how much of an asshole I was, I also remember quite a few psychos who really relished in causing harm and they weren't even 10 yet.

If anything telepathy would result in a different way of establishing a pecking order, with all the nastiness that brings forth

[Mk_C]

I think that how much this inherent prejudice pervades modern society depends on whether the culture reinforces or diminishes it. The Loroi have many different cultures, so there is no single answer to this question for the Loroi.

I would think that the current Union's culture would be a massive factor here - everything that we know about the Imperial, state-wide culture of the Union emphasizes unity of Loroi on every level - from crèche childhood, to diral, to deployment in mixed heritage units, to the Diadem, to what little we know of metaphysics (Ascention through Unity Only), and for a good reason - keeping the Union whole would be the No.1 task of the Imperial government. That alone would serve to make prejudice and division between different ethnic and cultural Loroi groups more of a marginal and heavily discouraged sentiment across the Union. And while it may have surged in times like Splinter Wars, for the last two decades the Union has been under a relentless assault from an external existential threat - which serves to give every kind of Loroi a common enemy, and drives the leadership to push on for more unity and cohesion than ever, down to Greywind's centralization reforms.

It would be quite sensible that despite having tons of internal conflict in their history, Loroi have been a relatively very ethnically cohesive community for a long time now, and right now they're at their peak ethnic and cultural cohesion since the Fall. For Loroi to divide themselves from their sisters from other worlds and regions would be undermining Azerein's authority even back in the peace time, and in the current circumstances it might appear downright treacherous.

SpoilerShow

Please pay no attention to the civilian underclass. Move along, nothing to see here.

[Bamax]

How do Loroi get around on the sister worlds?

Do they all own electric cars like some futuristic USA?

Do they live right next each other like Americans do?

Do they watch movies and play computer games as much as we do?

Do they have billboards and their version of hollywood?

Or is most all their art war propaganda to further support the war effort?

Religion is not much of thing, since the war and loyalty to supporting the government IS like their religion.

[Arioch]

I would think that the current Union's culture would be a massive factor here - everything that we know about the Imperial, state-wide culture of the Union emphasizes unity of Loroi on every level - from crèche childhood, to diral, to deployment in mixed heritage units, to the Diadem, to what little we know of metaphysics (Ascention through Unity Only), and for a good reason - keeping the Union whole would be the No.1 task of the Imperial government. That alone would serve to make prejudice and division between different ethnic and cultural Loroi groups more of a marginal and heavily discouraged sentiment across the Union. And while it may have surged in times like Splinter Wars, for the last two decades the Union has been under a relentless assault from an external existential threat - which serves to give every kind of Loroi a common enemy, and drives the leadership to push on for more unity and cohesion than ever, down to Greywind's centralization reforms.

It would be quite sensible that despite having tons of internal conflict in their history, Loroi have been a relatively very ethnically cohesive community for a long time now, and right now they're at their peak ethnic and cultural cohesion since the Fall. For Loroi to divide themselves from their sisters from other worlds and regions would be undermining Azerein's authority even back in the peace time, and in the current circumstances it might appear downright treacherous.

It has been the official policy of the United States government for some time now that discrimination and prejudice is a bad thing, and that's backed up by more than a few laws, but that doesn't completely prevent it from happening. I don't think it's possible to legislate the hearts and minds of the people, even in a telepathic society. Or perhaps especially in a telepathic society, unless you have in mind to attempt to prosecute thought crimes.

I don't think racism is a significant problem in Loroi society. And certainly in the middle of a desperate war is not the time to look for racial division. But Loroi culture is not homogenous, and not all Loroi individuals are the same, and the more that the Loroi spread out into far flung colony worlds with very different living conditions, the more Loroi will continue to diversify.

How do Loroi get around on the sister worlds?
Do they all own electric cars like some futuristic USA?

It depends on where they live and what they do. Most Loroi (military or civilian) who live in developed urban areas don't own private vehicles, and take various forms of public transit to get around. Many Loroi live where they work, and so do not have to commute. Those who live in rural or undeveloped areas (such as recent colonies) may own or share private vehicles. Since the Loroi TL10 version of a car can fly, personal vehicles are more strictly licensed by the authorities.

Do they live right next each other like Americans do?

Some live in high-density urban areas, some live in sparse rural communities, some live aboard spacecraft or space stations, and everything in between.

Do they watch movies and play computer games as much as we do?
Do they have billboards and their version of hollywood?
Or is most all their art war propaganda to further support the war effort?

The Loroi don't have a media culture like we do; the truthful nature of telepathy means that they don't easily see the value of works of fiction. They have video, which they use mainly for nonfiction and various kinds of news, reporting, education and public interest programming. They play games, but usually without the kind of fictional worldbuilding and narrative that many of our favorite computer games generate. For arts and entertainment, they prefer live performances over recordings so that their telepathy can be part of the experience.

[Bamax]

I would think that the current Union's culture would be a massive factor here - everything that we know about the Imperial, state-wide culture of the Union emphasizes unity of Loroi on every level - from crèche childhood, to diral, to deployment in mixed heritage units, to the Diadem, to what little we know of metaphysics (Ascention through Unity Only), and for a good reason - keeping the Union whole would be the No.1 task of the Imperial government. That alone would serve to make prejudice and division between different ethnic and cultural Loroi groups more of a marginal and heavily discouraged sentiment across the Union. And while it may have surged in times like Splinter Wars, for the last two decades the Union has been under a relentless assault from an external existential threat - which serves to give every kind of Loroi a common enemy, and drives the leadership to push on for more unity and cohesion than ever, down to Greywind's centralization reforms.

It would be quite sensible that despite having tons of internal conflict in their history, Loroi have been a relatively very ethnically cohesive community for a long time now, and right now they're at their peak ethnic and cultural cohesion since the Fall. For Loroi to divide themselves from their sisters from other worlds and regions would be undermining Azerein's authority even back in the peace time, and in the current circumstances it might appear downright treacherous.

It has been the official policy of the United States government for some time now that discrimination and prejudice is a bad thing, and that's backed up by more than a few laws, but that doesn't completely prevent it from happening. I don't think it's possible to legislate the hearts and minds of the people, even in a telepathic society. Or perhaps especially in a telepathic society, unless you have in mind to attempt to prosecute thought crimes.

I don't think racism is a significant problem in Loroi society. And certainly in the middle of a desperate war is not the time to look for racial division. But Loroi culture is not homogenous, and not all Loroi individuals are the same, and the more that the Loroi spread out into far flung colony worlds with very different living conditions, the more Loroi will continue to diversify.

How do Loroi get around on the sister worlds?
Do they all own electric cars like some futuristic USA?

It depends on where they live and what they do. Most Loroi (military or civilian) who live in developed urban areas don't own private vehicles, and take various forms of public transit to get around. Many Loroi live where they work, and so do not have to commute. Those who live in rural or undeveloped areas (such as recent colonies) may own or share private vehicles. Since the Loroi TL10 version of a car can fly, personal vehicles are more strictly licensed by the authorities.

Do they live right next each other like Americans do?

Some live in high-density urban areas, some live in sparse rural communities, some live aboard spacecraft or space stations, and everything in between.

Do they watch movies and play computer games as much as we do?
Do they have billboards and their version of hollywood?
Or is most all their art war propaganda to further support the war effort?

The Loroi don't have a media culture like we do; the truthful nature of telepathy means that they don't easily see the value of works of fiction. They have video, which they use mainly for nonfiction and various kinds of news, reporting, education and public interest programming. They play games, but usually without the kind of fictional worldbuilding and narrative that many of our favorite computer games generate. For arts and entertainment, they prefer live performances over recordings so that their telepathy can be part of the experience.

[/quote]



Yeah...I can see why. Silence looks without words does not lend itself to TV.


What is school like? A bunch of silent writing, smirking, and making faces at each other for students?

K-12?


Do teachers use almost exculsively Sanzai except for times they need to speak to warn or because of distance?


I presume most civillans are less skilled at speaking trade language, like below even Spiral's level. While military who have to speak with other races often usually are fluent?

I also presume that virtually all warriors know how to cook a meal and do basic domestic duties, since it's part of their warrior training right?

Basically all Warriors start out as girl scouts right?

That's a WHOLE lot of competence, more than ypur average american girl who spends much time online and may prefer eating out to cooking.

[Arioch]

What is school like? A bunch of silent writing, smirking, and making faces at each other for students?

Loroi school is accelerated due to the rapid maturation of the children, enabled by telepathic teaching techniques. Most Loroi children are raised in a communal creche (Loroi military mothers get limited maternal leave) to age 3, go through formal schooling from ages 3-6, and then diral training from ages 6-8. At 8 they're legally adult, and begin vocational training. By 10 they're usually in the field either as cadets or (in a pinch) as active-duty troops.

Pre-diral schooling teaches formal Trade writing and speech, but in most cases spoken Trade is kind of like the foreign languages American students have to learn in high school; they learn enough to pass the tests and probably never use it again unless it is required in their adult profession. So yes, Loroi children are mostly silent as they monkey around in class.

More about Loroi education: https://well-of-souls.com/outsider/foru ... rites.html

[Bamax]

What is school like? A bunch of silent writing, smirking, and making faces at each other for students?

Loroi school is accelerated due to the rapid maturation of the children, enabled by telepathic teaching techniques. Most Loroi children are raised in a communal creche (Loroi military mothers get limited maternal leave) to age 3, go through formal schooling from ages 3-6, and then diral training from ages 6-8. At 8 they're legally adult, and begin vocational training. By 10 they're usually in the field either as cadets or (in a pinch) as active-duty troops.

Pre-diral schooling teaches formal Trade writing and speech, but in most cases spoken Trade is kind of like the foreign languages American students have to learn in high school; they learn enough to pass the tests and probably never use it again unless it is required in their adult profession. So yes, Loroi children are mostly silent as they monkey around in class.

More about Loroi education: https://well-of-souls.com/outsider/foru ... rites.html

Ewww...I guess incest is not frowned on. Go figure, it's not as if they ever really have a 'dad' or 'mom' anyway. Since dads only are a sperm source, and mothers stop being so after age 3!

Loroi would be like, "What's incest?"

In some weird way Loroi incest sounds at least better than what cats do. A male cat will be raised by a mom and WILL mate with her no questions asked and she won't have a problem with it.

So human incest factor is technically there for the Loroi, but not nearly as pronounced since they don't even have families in the traditonal sense.

I can also assume that due to their unique physiology, inbreeding does not screw them up like it does with us.


All males are simply....available. Only the males are not allowed to mate with civillian females, though I bet they break this when they feel they can get away with it.

[Arioch]

Ewww...I guess incest is not frowned on.

I don't see where you're getting that. Maybe you have a different definition of incest?

[Bamax]

Ewww...I guess incest is not frowned on.

I don't see where you're getting that. Maybe you have a different definition of incest?

To quote the 'codex' link you gave me:

Question from reader:

If the female child might not know her father, I sure hope that somebody is keeping track of the bloodlines to prevent in-breeding!

Answer:


A daughter might never meet her father, but in most cases she will have records of who he is; pedigree in a father is a big snob-factor for Loroi. Famous and powerful Loroi females are usually too busy to have many children, so it's up to their brothers and sons to spread the family genes. Given the traditional clan-centric nature of Loroi family structure and reproductive allocation, this system lends itself to a certain amount of inbreeding, so I'm not sure that a father mating with a daughter has necessarily the same kind of taboo that it does in human society.


Definition of incest according to google:

sexual relations between people classed as being too closely related to marry each other.
the crime of having sexual intercourse with a parent, child, sibling, or grandchild.

[Arioch]

I didn't mean to say that fathers mating with daughters was commonplace. What I meant to say was that there wasn't the same taboo, since a daughter might not ever have seen her father.

I'll edit the passage to clarify it. Thanks for pointing it out.

[Bamax]

I didn't mean to say that fathers mating with daughters was commonplace. What I meant to say was that there wasn't the same taboo, since a daughter might not ever have seen her father.

I'll edit the passage to clarify it. Thanks for pointing it out.

Well..saw the edit.


Based on past info, females can refuse a male and vice a versa.

New edit: Some Loroi female has the job of choosing who is allowed to mate with whom.

Wow. If that's one person per group as the decider that's a lot of power.

I wonder who has this job? Civillians perhaps, as they have the time, and somewhere it was said the Loroi can have their emotional needs filled via sisterly telepathy, so they do not see sex quite the way we do nor do they desire it as strongly.

Sex is mainly for offspring but is pleasurable nonetheless, but due to low male birth ratios males must be shared to continue the race. So becoming attached and jealous is discouraged.

The sex chooser job may even be a group, which would keep one person from having too much power as they have set guide ines.

Rules:

1. Avoid incest.

2. Only allow incest if directed to by government or if no other option is available.

3. Avoid letting same female see the same guy twice. If not possible, then try to make intervals between sex with a repeat partner long as possible to avoid unnecessary strong feelings of attachment between them.

4. If you cannot do all the latter or achieve it, you have failed and will be replaced by someone who can. For the greater Loroi good.

[Bamax]

Based on what I do know about the Loroi, the performing arts are without doubt affected by their overwhelming reliance on silent telepathy.

I presume:

Instrumental music without lyrics is far more common than music with lyrics written in trade. Since the Trade languages are like a second language they either take seriously in school, or forget about after, especially if their job does not require it. Trade is like what Spanish is to Americans who lack spanish heritage. It is very useful in specific situations to know a second language, but it is not necessary to make a living so long one knows English well enough.


So perhaps singing is one thing humans do better. Take that Loroi! How many opera or pop singers do you have? Is it even in the triple digits? Yeah...that's what I thought!

Could not help myself, it's all too fun to take 'shots' at the Loroi when you know they are better than you in so many ways. So the ONE thing you are better in you try to show off to outshine them in at least that if nothing else.

Of course I could be wrong. Civillians actually have time for that...especially males.

Do Loroi sing telepathically?

How do they prevent telepathic disruption during music concerts?

I say this because I attended a classical concert back in 2014, where the cellist was being made fun of by two college girls sitting in the front row because they saw her sniffling her nose as she played. So they began mocking her by also sniffling as she played. I was sitting next to them when the cellist, who was the WIFE of the orchestra conductor, held out her hand to him and he stopped the ENTIRE orchestra in it's tracks from playing. Then the cellist stood up and addressed the girls in no uncertain terms that they either needed to stop what they were doing or leave.

After the concert several older folk essentially mobbed around the girls and told them off as they left the auditorium. I remember the girls had told me they were only there to get easy college credits, whereas I was there because I like classical music.

So the problem with telepathy is this problem could be multiplied ten fold. I am aware Loroi can ignore telepathy, but is it good enough to ignore several people who are MOCKING you as you play at a concert and you don't even see them or know them?