Page 216: Time to move!
Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2022 5:18 am
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https://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=2629
How could external clocks measure the duration of a jump, especially when the transit is faster than light and over interstellar distances? You'd need synchronised clocks at each end, which would run into the problem of simultaneity. I suppose you could have a ship jump out, and then jump straight back, and compare the time elapsed on a clock at the starting point with the time elapsed on clocks on board the ship?The perception of time while in hyperspace is... strange. External clocks record the duration of a jump to be as long as an hour, but for the transiting ship and its occupants, it seems that only a fraction of a second passes.
In Loroi case their farseers can detect ship, when it arrives at distant star.Mercy Machine wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:55 amHow could external clocks measure the duration of a jump, especially when the transit is faster than light and over interstellar distances?
I thought a ship arriving in a jump zone first needs to decelerate, and then accelerate again into the jump zone before it can jump. Or performing a slingshot around the star of course. Either case, performing these manoeuvers eats up time. I kind of wonder if a valid measurement of elapsed time during jumps is still possible with all that.SVlad wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 1:32 pmIn Loroi case their farseers can detect ship, when it arrives at distant star.Mercy Machine wrote: ↑Tue Apr 05, 2022 11:55 amHow could external clocks measure the duration of a jump, especially when the transit is faster than light and over interstellar distances?
Or just simply jump there and back and compare onboard clock time with observer's time.
The ship could just radio their timestamps to a nearby ship that is already in the system and ready to jump. Or do any number of other things to account for the lorentz transformation. (It's honestly a pretty easy calculation, as far as high level physics goes.)I thought a ship arriving in a jump zone first needs to decelerate
Her character sheet does include Illusion, EM Surge, EM Sense and EM Dampen. She is a walking jamming and confusion device and the Umiak weren't anticipating an infiltrator of her caliber to be aboard a random disabled shuttle.
I don't see (heh) why sight would be more significant as a sense than, say, touch, smell, or hearing. The idea that something is bad if you see it but not bad if you don't borders on the magical. I also don't see how we could have a reflexive action to something we never evolved to do -- unless you go fully Ancient Aliens about it, which I don't think Outsider is doing there's no reason humans would have a hyperspace reflex.Voitan wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:54 amAre the visions in hyperspace all mental, like a dream experience? Otherwise, I'm curious if anyone actually can see in hyperspace, or does everyone have a reflexive action that causes them to shut their eyes, and would there be any significant danger if anyone were to be able to physically see anything in hyperspace if by some terrible fate, they were able to keep their eyes open. Because I'm not convinced Hyperspace is at all empty. I would be extremely skeptical as a person traveling through it, and probably write fictional horror stories about it.
Does every jump between 2 systems always take the same amount of time? When I read the page the idea I got from it was that if you jump from Sol to Vega then it might take 10 minutes or it might take 1 hour to arrive.
An even simpler method (which I envisioned for Traveller a couple of decades ago) is a "Zero-Point Jump" -- jumping to the same (or nearby) spatial coordinates within the same system and comparing the onboard chronometer's time to an external standard. This gave an indication of the relative efficiency of a ship's jump drive -- the greater the difference, the greater the need for better 'tuning' of the jump drive.
Considering that Alex may have some latent sanzai ability (implying that other humans may have it as well), those 'visons' could indicate some inter-relation of hyperspace, time, and psionics that not even the Loroi have figured out yet.
You can see the interior of your ship and its occupants, because they're traveling at the same velocity as you -- I think that if causal connections weren't preserved as according to general relativity, your body would fly apart -- but you can't see anything outside the ship, as you're outrunning the photons. If there was a lot of light in hyperspace, then theoretically you should be able to perceive a small amount of it as a point source in the direction of motion, but this has never been observed.Voitan wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:54 amOtherwise, I'm curious if anyone actually can see in hyperspace, or does everyone have a reflexive action that causes them to shut their eyes, and would there be any significant danger if anyone were to be able to physically see anything in hyperspace if by some terrible fate, they were able to keep their eyes open. Because I'm not convinced Hyperspace is at all empty. I would be extremely skeptical as a person traveling through it, and probably write fictional horror stories about it.
Mechanisms experience the same physical effects as organisms (they can see or not see the same things). Androids might Dream of Electric Sheep, but Historian constructs are notoriously unhelpful when answering questions about how they operate and what they experience.
You can't make jumps within a star system, because the curvature of space is dominated by the gravity of the star; there isn't a well deep enough to pull you back out again. If you activate the jump generators without having escape velocity from the star of the system you're in, you either a) won't make the transition into hyperspace, or b) you'll enter hyperspace and be drawn into the star.Keklas Rekobah wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 3:41 pmAn even simpler method (which I envisioned for Traveller a couple of decades ago) is a "Zero-Point Jump" -- jumping to the same (or nearby) spatial coordinates within the same system and comparing the onboard chronometer's time to an external standard. This gave an indication of the relative efficiency of a ship's jump drive -- the greater the difference, the greater the need for better 'tuning' of the jump drive.
@ARIOCH: Does this work in the Soiaverse, or is it absolutely necessary to cross interstellar space from one gravity well to another (twice) before a chronometer comparison could be made?
The time elapsed depends on the velocity and distance traveled in hyperspace, just like in normal space. Since the path isn't always exactly the same, the time elapsed isn't always the same, but it's not as variable as 10 minutes to an hour.boldilocks wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 10:02 amDoes every jump between 2 systems always take the same amount of time? When I read the page the idea I got from it was that if you jump from Sol to Vega then it might take 10 minutes or it might take 1 hour to arrive.
You'd have to be insanely close to the enemy vessel, at which point if you have the power to operate the jump drive, there are several much more reliable tactics to pursue (such as collision, self-detonation, splashing the target with your engine exhaust, or simply engaging with normal weapons).Keklas Rekobah wrote: ↑Wed Apr 06, 2022 6:12 pmSo no tactical zero-point jumps. Drat.
I was hoping for a last resort suicide action where a jump field is overloaded, drawing (or only partially drawing) at least one enemy vessel into hyperspace, destroying them both.