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Loroi sexuality 
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
fredgiblet wrote:
Grayhome wrote:
Why would the Umiak use humans? They have their own specially modified gene soldiers to man ships. I do not understand the point here.


We have Lotai, they don't.
But only one human and zero Umiak knows this and the Loroi can control who that one human ever gets to talk to.

Given that if the Loroi do choose to purge humanity, they will go to great lengths to prevent anyone else finding out about the human Lotai, there is no reason for the Umiak to use humans on the front line or to investigate human genetics in an attempt to replicate this Lotai that they don't know about.

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Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:53 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
They don't need to protect us as the Umiak haven't reached us yet. In the short-term we are a minor drain as we'll need technical help to get moving and we'll want a light screening force to guard the route to us. But the Umiak don't know we're here so they're not going to be sprinting for us. Even if the Umiak do reach us before we can defend ourselves they aren't likely to be moving in force for some time.

I don't think the situation is nearly as dire as you're assuming.


Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:59 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Quote:
They don't need to protect us as the Umiak haven't reached us yet. In the short-term we are a minor drain as we'll need technical help to get moving and we'll want a light screening force to guard the route to us. But the Umiak don't know we're here so they're not going to be sprinting for us. Even if the Umiak do reach us before we can defend ourselves they aren't likely to be moving in force for some time.

I don't think the situation is nearly as dire as you're assuming.


Arioch has stated that both the Loroi and the Umiak have been aggressively expanding toward human territory for some time now and as we have already seen with the Orgus the Umiak WILL COME RUNNING with everything they have and the reserves they have been building up to boot. This is exactly the opportunity both the Umiak and the Loroi have been preparing for. If the Umiak have found a scout vessel (which I think was heavily implied in the last chapter's closing laughter from the Umiak commander) then they have already tortured the information out of the human scouts and shown the human tanker/communication relay footage of the Loroi destroying the Bellarmine's twisted remains.


Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:10 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Grayhome wrote:
Exactly my point, the Loroi do not have the time to wait for humanity to play catch up. They are in a battle that is rapidly escalating and need a quick and easy solution. Glassing humanity would be the only thing they have time for, as they barely have enough ships to protect themselves, let alone a useless race with backwards tech.
Looking at the map from the Size of 'empires' thread and Insider estimating two years until the war reaches humanity anyway it would make sense for the Loroi to use us as a staging/refuelling post for long strikes behind Umiak lines (presuming we can be quickly upgraded to produce usable food and fuel) with the dispatched force "protecting" humanity from the Umiak but really monitoring/guarding-the-Loroi-from us and with orders to glass us if it looks like the Umiak would take our territory.

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Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:23 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
The scouts that find us won't have authorization to attempt genocide, nor will they likely have the firepower. The Umiak are not going to be committing battle fleets to poking around empty space. When they run into us if they are able to realize that we aren't Loroi (shouldn't be difficult but you never know) they'll want to get willing co-operation first, then invade if they can't get that in a reasonable timeframe. Even if they do attack us it will be months after contact is made because they'll need to shift around a battle fleet and scout our systems to make sure they aren't making a big mistake.

I think you're reading way, WAY, WAY too much into the last scene with the Umiak commander. There are no FTL coms, therefore even if the Umiak have run into another scout there's basically no chance that this Umiak fleet has heard of it.

According to Arioch we've got roughly 2-5 years before the Umiak show up at our door, which means we've got that long to show the Loroi that we have value. While it will probably take longer than that for our tech advantage to start working the mere promise of our tech skill will be worth protecting. Additionally the value of having us as a re-supply point and cheap labor source for local bases is important as well.


Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:24 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Wasn't the 2-5 years meant to be form when the Orgus contacted Humanity? Which was about 5 years ago? Or did Arioch mean 2-5 years from first contact with Human scouts?

Also, why would they need to scout around? Humans have mass drivers and lasers with 5g engines, no screens and crappy torpedoes. The Umiak will know this from the Human scouts they find. I would think that by now the Umiak would be past the point of feeling the need to be cautious since they are the biggest fish in the pond.

I may be reading too far into it, but I just think it's curious how the dialogue between the Umiak commander and Stillstorm went, something was going on there.


Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:31 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
There's two quotes I've found on that says 2-5 years, another that says 2. Both assume no contact from the scout mission which means, to me, that it's 2 years from now.

They'll want to scoutn around to make sure that that's not just a what the civilians have. It's not absurd to think of a paranoid government keeping 30g warships with particle beams for themselves while leaving 5g rustbuckets for the civilians. Also they want to know how large of an areas they're attacking because even with vastly superior technology if they're attacking an empire equal in size to their own they'll need more ships than a scouting/diplomatic mission will have.


Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:42 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Mayhem wrote:
But only one human and zero Umiak knows this and the Loroi can control who that one human ever gets to talk to.

Given that if the Loroi do choose to purge humanity, they will go to great lengths to prevent anyone else finding out about the human Lotai, there is no reason for the Umiak to use humans on the front line or to investigate human genetics in an attempt to replicate this Lotai that they don't know about.



The Loroi have no way of knowing if the Bellarmine was the only Human ship in the system, other than Jardins word that it was.

Moreso, the 'secret' of human Lotai isn't something that Alex would have to pass on for the Umiak to figure out.

Here's how it happens :
1) Loroi scouts start bumbling around Human space, mapping out where the colonies are in preparation for the planned genocide campaign. Humanity is smart enough to figure out when it is being scouted, and makes haste to the Umiak, or at least sends out ships looking specifically for them in order to ally. These ships take with them records of the Loroi scouting efforts. Some bright Umiak fleet intelligence analyst notices that the Loroi scouting patterns are those of a force looking for something that it doesn't know is there or not, rather than their usual 'getting a closer look at something they already know the location of'. It doesn't take a bright bug to figure out that the Loroi can't detect Humans.

2) The Loroi go in guns blazing, not giving the humans time to try to contact the Umiak. Unfortunately, again, there will be some blundering about as they are going in blind. This time, though, the blundering about will be by whole task groups, instead of just a few scouts. If anything, this will make the fact of Loroi strategic blindness to Humans even more obvious to that Umiak fleet intel bug, should he get the data. And, if I were the Loroi, I wouldn't bet the species on not one Human ship getting away.

3) The Loroi feign friendship/alliance until they have the Location of all of Humanity's worlds, settlements, outposts, and ships. Then they have a Night of Long Knives, and wipe out all of Humanity in one fell swoop. While this might be their best chance to make a complete kill, it has problems. First, they can never be entirely sure that the Humans told them about every colony and ship. No telepathy on humans, after all. Second, committing genocide on an ally doesn't exactly make the rest of your allies trust you. It would, in fact, probably drive any of them that are not completely vulnerable to you right into the arms of the Umiak. Historian tech + Umiak production = Loroi lose the war. Now, maybe you think the Loroi could keep the whole operation a secret, but that seems unlikely. especially since the Historians and the Barsam already know of Humanity's existence. (panels 57-65)


Basically, I am saying that wiping out Humanity 'on spec' as it were, isn't the safest bet for the Loroi.


Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:44 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Grayhome wrote:
Quote:
It's been made fairly clear that we will, in the long term, have value as engineers and scientists for the Loroi. I'll be interested to see if we have a scene where Alex brings up the timeline of human technology, because they will probably think he's exaggerating or flat out lying. THAT will likely be our most prominent long-term role in the Loroi Empire, though it will be a while before we can really assume that mantle.


Exactly my point, the Loroi do not have the time to wait for humanity to play catch up. They are in a battle that is rapidly escalating and need a quick and easy solution. Glassing humanity would be the only thing they have time for, as they barely have enough ships to protect themselves, let alone a useless race with backwards tech.


Not only do they not have the time, the war is escalating and the Umiak have the manufacturing edge. It is very unlikely that the Loroi even have the necessary resources to search for, let alone glass, several planets. All available fleets will be better used protecting the borders and any extra ships that weren't being held in reserve or earmarked as loss replacements would probably be put into fleets for any planned pushes.

Probably the best bet for the Loroi regarding Humanity would be to gain us as an ally, even if only to act as buffer on one of their flanks. It would also deny the Umiak a telepathically-invisible ally. And, assuming that the Loroi aren't in danger of immediate extinction, they could probably afford to wait for us to catch up to their tech level and then begin making contributions.

As an aside, when you say "glass humanity," do you mean actually reducing the surface of our worlds to molten slag, or do you just mean destroying major population centers? I don't think the former is as easy as the latter.


Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:55 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
bunnyboy wrote:
or even somekind of spore spreaders. :shock:
Loroi were created to spread psychedelic mushrooms all about the landscape. They did a really good job on Perrein.

Grayhome wrote:
However, if we are to be the scary, feared pink aliens, I would hope we're the scariest, pinkest of them all! Here's a humble suggestion:
Spoiler: show
Image
Sorry, but that's a no-go, Justin Beiber's too likely to be dead from old age for that to work.


Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:40 am
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Mayhem wrote:
The question is just how interested in intimacy would a Loroi female be?

We humans have the hypothesis of the Uncanny valley.
The blue skin the Loroi may not be much of a problem for us as we have such a wide range of skin tones as a species but for the Loroi - if they were to have their own version of the uncanny valley - our skin not being a shade of blue (like a real person) and our freakish psychic invisibility might be a bit like a zombie would be for us.


I am familiar with the concept. I've always thought it has a lot to do with a) 'inhuman movement'; b) lack of a 'soul'/conscious life. What you say makes for an interesting argument, but would you do this with a zombie:

Spoiler: show
Image


;)

Quote:
We are after all (, to them): intellectually opaque, emotionally dead and incapable of real intimacy.
That we only communicate via spoken word - the language of lies, the tool of deceit - means we would be instinctively be distrusted even if they intellectually accept that we don't have telepathy. (As if we had forked tongues so to speak :twisted: )


Or they might get used to it, in the same way humans can get used to communicating with people through voice-only media - after all, there you're also missing 90% of communication, especially body language and other visual cues that help you "read" the other person and recognize whether they're lying or not being perfectly honest.

Quote:
Add in the Loroi's (IIRC) xenophobia, species chauvinism & war stress, and the idea that the typical Loroi female would be interested in becoming intimate with a human male becomes unlikely.


(Add to that being locked up in a starship for a few years and maybe it will cancel out the other things ;) )

It really depends on how crucial telepathy is for them and whether they're capable of emotionally connecting with beings which cannot be 'sensed' or 'read'. Maybe it would add a bit of an exotic "mysteriousness" to humans...

(From the hints dropped in the story and in Insider, I assume Loroi have been genetically engineered to resemble humans, which is similar to the Barsam who closely resemble the native Nibiren. From that I infer that humans probably *are* telepathic, but their telepathy is vestigial, purely defensive in nature. That's why the Loroi can't read Alex's mind or sense him. So, who knows, perhaps human telepathy can be stimulated and re-developed, eventually? )

Quote:
Speaking of zombies, do the Loroi have bogeymen (like zombies, vampires, etc)?
And does the unnaturally pale and seemingly dead Alexander push any of these cultural buttons? :)


Maybe pink-skinned faeries who can't be sensed, sneak into your house, and steal/impersonate children? ;)

Quote:
Have the Loroi had Helen of Troy type figures in the past, were Loroi groups have gone to war over a single male?


milihelen (SI) - a unit of beauty sufficient to launch one ship

Grayhome wrote:
Loroi see sex as a tool for becoming pregnant. Human males cannot impregnate Loroi females.


Or rather, it's their cultural approach to sex. Do I have to remind you that many human cultures, including a sizeable number of people in Western societies, believe that sex for purposes *other* than procreation is a sin?

Quote:
Loroi use telepathy to initiate intimacy. Humans are not a telepathic race.


That remains to be seen, see above.

Quote:
Loroi males look like young boys, in comparison adult male humans would look comical at best and grotesque at worst.


Or maybe it would trigger another response (big and powerfully built => superior daughters*)

(*subconsciously, rationally they'd know it's impossible)

Quote:
Loroi see all aliens as inferior at best and slaves that are destined to be brutally enslaved at worst.

Humanity has nothing of military worth that can repel Loroi aggression. Humanity occupies territory that can be used to attack Umiak flanks. At best human territory will be brutally enslaved to provide an invasion platform to launch assaults on Umiak held worlds. At worst it will be glassed to prevent the Umiak from doing the same to Loroi held worlds.


I don't think so. Humans are too similar to the Loroi physically to be wiped out without emotional/moral consequences. It would definitely be more ethically taxing than wiping out overgrown slugs or other creatures that look and behave nothing like you.

(You can of course point out many human genocides to counter my argument, but I don't think it's the same.)


Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:16 am
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Mayhem wrote:
fredgiblet wrote:
We have Lotai, they don't.

But only one human and zero Umiak knows this and the Loroi can control who that one human ever gets to talk to.

For now. But there will be more.

Mayhem wrote:
Given that if the Loroi do choose to purge humanity, they will go to great lengths to prevent anyone else finding out about the human Lotai

No purging. The cat is already out of the bag for this one, since the Barsam and the Historians know about us.

And the latter are IMHO the 3rd party in this war, since they have superior firepower to both Loroi and Umiak.

Our appearance comes in handy to them, since they´re fine with this war of attrition between two unpopular parties.
After a pyrrhic Loroi victory they will have given us enough tech to be on par with Loroi, so that they don´t have to fear a Loroi aggression to them.

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Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:17 am
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Victor_D wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
The question is just how interested in intimacy would a Loroi female be?

We humans have the hypothesis of the Uncanny valley.
The blue skin the Loroi may not be much of a problem for us as we have such a wide range of skin tones as a species but for the Loroi - if they were to have their own version of the uncanny valley - our skin not being a shade of blue (like a real person) and our freakish psychic invisibility might be a bit like a zombie would be for us.


I am familiar with the concept. I've always thought it has a lot to do with a) 'inhuman movement'; b) lack of a 'soul'/conscious life. What you say makes for an interesting argument, but would you do this with a zombie:

Spoiler: show
Image


;)

Quote:
We are after all (, to them): intellectually opaque, emotionally dead and incapable of real intimacy.
That we only communicate via spoken word - the language of lies, the tool of deceit - means we would be instinctively be distrusted even if they intellectually accept that we don't have telepathy. (As if we had forked tongues so to speak :twisted: )


Or they might get used to it, in the same way humans can get used to communicating with people through voice-only media - after all, there you're also missing 90% of communication, especially body language and other visual cues that help you "read" the other person and recognize whether they're lying or not being perfectly honest.

Quote:
Add in the Loroi's (IIRC) xenophobia, species chauvinism & war stress, and the idea that the typical Loroi female would be interested in becoming intimate with a human male becomes unlikely.


(Add to that being locked up in a starship for a few years and maybe it will cancel out the other things ;) )

It really depends on how crucial telepathy is for them and whether they're capable of emotionally connecting with beings which cannot be 'sensed' or 'read'. Maybe it would add a bit of an exotic "mysteriousness" to humans...

(From the hints dropped in the story and in Insider, I assume Loroi have been genetically engineered to resemble humans, which is similar to the Barsam who closely resemble the native Nibiren. From that I infer that humans probably *are* telepathic, but their telepathy is vestigial, purely defensive in nature. That's why the Loroi can't read Alex's mind or sense him. So, who knows, perhaps human telepathy can be stimulated and re-developed, eventually? )

Quote:
Speaking of zombies, do the Loroi have bogeymen (like zombies, vampires, etc)?
And does the unnaturally pale and seemingly dead Alexander push any of these cultural buttons? :)


Maybe pink-skinned faeries who can't be sensed, sneak into your house, and steal/impersonate children? ;)

Quote:
Have the Loroi had Helen of Troy type figures in the past, were Loroi groups have gone to war over a single male?


milihelen (SI) - a unit of beauty sufficient to launch one ship

Grayhome wrote:
Loroi see sex as a tool for becoming pregnant. Human males cannot impregnate Loroi females.


Or rather, it's their cultural approach to sex. Do I have to remind you that many human cultures, including a sizeable number of people in Western societies, believe that sex for purposes *other* than procreation is a sin?

Quote:
Loroi use telepathy to initiate intimacy. Humans are not a telepathic race.


That remains to be seen, see above.

Quote:
Loroi males look like young boys, in comparison adult male humans would look comical at best and grotesque at worst.


Or maybe it would trigger another response (big and powerfully built => superior daughters*)

(*subconsciously, rationally they'd know it's impossible)

Quote:
Loroi see all aliens as inferior at best and slaves that are destined to be brutally enslaved at worst.

Humanity has nothing of military worth that can repel Loroi aggression. Humanity occupies territory that can be used to attack Umiak flanks. At best human territory will be brutally enslaved to provide an invasion platform to launch assaults on Umiak held worlds. At worst it will be glassed to prevent the Umiak from doing the same to Loroi held worlds.


I don't think so. Humans are too similar to the Loroi physically to be wiped out without emotional/moral consequences. It would definitely be more ethically taxing than wiping out overgrown slugs or other creatures that look and behave nothing like you.

(You can of course point out many human genocides to counter my argument, but I don't think it's the same.)


ALL Valid points that I can agree with. Insightful and well thought out. Plus the whole wipe out humanity would be a unnecessary drain on Loroi resources and most importantly TIME they do not have to deal with a mostly non-threatening species that might indeed be very friendly if initial encounters with Cptn. Jardin are any indication of human reaction to Loroi. Humans will be more inclined to side with human like allies than alien bugs which I'm sure the Loroi will discover once actual diplomatic relationships open in kind.

Plus indeed, the other stellar allies of the Loroi know of humanity's existence and would look upon such a brutal reply to a mostly 'friendly' new client race with a starkly disapproving eye... sowing mistrust at a stage in the war that would be VERY counterproductive on the whole war effort - when the Loroi need to be their MOST united than ever with their allies and client species!

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Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:27 am
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Are we still talking about sex with Loroi?


Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:40 am
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
I still do want I basic answer to the question "Could a human and a Loroi have sex if they wanted to?"


Wed Dec 26, 2012 11:32 am
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
I think everything indicated before suggests yes.. that indeed Loroi and humans could indeed have sexual relations and both enjoy in parts the experience.

I think a Loroi partner of either gender would find a humans body heat a little of a shock as humans normal temperature is a bit warmer than a Loroi and their lack of mental contact would make the experience different in that no deeper mental sharing of the experience could be shared. But also it would be a experience of continual discovery as they would have to physically intuit what their partner might do next and the not knowing ahead of time from mental rapport could possibly make the experience new and uncertain with each encounter.

Some Loroi might enjoy this, others might not.

To a human the Loroi though possibly very physically appealing would be a little cool to the touch and I'm not sure if the intimate contact of sex would increase that warmth significantly. Humans, who do not have telepathy to be able to read a partners desires and wants may... be better at reading body language than a Loroi {who are very use to simply reading a subject's mind} and may find their loroi lover continually surprised by what they do next. It may indeed make their Loroi lover somewhat hesitant to 'take the lead' in a sexual encounter. The human may have a better 'sense' of what their loroi partner may like or dislike than expected by the loroi by simply reading their physical ques.

But again this is all conjecture... I have no idea if Loroi being mammal-like are mammalian enough for the natural pheromones of humans and loroi to be effective cross-species. From what has been formulated before potentially not... but there is no mistaking the general attraction that loroi have for the one human they have meet and his attraction to them {and this is also a little conjecture...} but it would seem to me - at least, you don't get socially sorry for making an newly discovered alien species uneasy with curious questions about their mating habits or empathic enough to be inspired enough to offer QUOTE: "I was concerned for your health that we might have to implement some sort of... accommodation.", unless you find them at least a little attractive and appealing in such a manner.

I think, even if only a little, those natural female and male pheromones do have at least some minor effect in - if not mentally at least physically, informing both Loroi and humans of the possibility of a compatible sexual partner.

Again all conjecture on my part but the story and the facial expressions of the various examples of Loroi and Cptn. Jardin's reactions to the loroi seems to hold some weight to my conjectures.

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Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:09 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Victor_D wrote:
Mayhem wrote:

I am familiar with the concept. I've always thought it has a lot to do with a) 'inhuman movement'; b) lack of a 'soul'/conscious life.

I am suggesting that our constant, impenetrable Lotai might subconsciously register as a "lack of 'soul'".

Victor_D wrote:
What you say makes for an interesting argument, but would you do this with a zombie:
Spoiler: show
Image

;)
I was talking about the typical Loroi female who would exhibit xenophobia and species chauvinism.
Beryl doesn't count as she is described as a xenophile and is therefore atypical and a potential "sexual outlier".
Fireblade is sitting surprising close (possibly a somewhat hostile invasion of space) but her body language in human terms is classically defensive.

Reviewing pages 19 - 101 Beryl is the only Loroi so far that is clearly (& honestly) friendly to Alex.
Tempo is a spy and a diplomat so we can't determine anything about her real attitude to Alex from her behaviour.
Fireblade and Stillstorm are clearly hostile to and distrustful of Alex.
(Fireblade does have moments of sad reflection/pity it seems but how this pertains to Alex is yet to be seen.)
The rest seem to be divided between hostility and neutrality with a scattering of cautious curiosity.

So it seems reasonable that the typical Loroi female would be unlikely to be interested in becoming intimate with a human male.
(Subject to further pages or word of god Arioch.)

Victor_D wrote:
Humans are too similar to the Loroi physically to be wiped out without emotional/moral consequences. It would definitely be more ethically taxing than wiping out overgrown slugs or other creatures that look and behave nothing like you.

(You can of course point out many human genocides to counter my argument, but I don't think it's the same.)
Again I think it depends where we fall on their uncanny valley (presuming such exists).

---
Alienscifi wrote:
I still do want I basic answer to the question "Could a human and a Loroi have sex if they wanted to?"
Physically yes.
Though it would be interesting if the Loroi required a psychic connection to achieve (their equivalent [presuming yada-yada] of) orgasm.

It would be darkly funny that if, after much build up, it turns out human semen is toxic to Loroi. :twisted:

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Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:19 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
@Mayhem:
Quote:
Reviewing pages 19 - 101 Beryl is the only Loroi so far that is clearly (& honestly) friendly to Alex.
Tempo is a spy and a diplomat so we can't determine anything about her real attitude to Alex from her behaviour.
Fireblade and Stillstorm are clearly hostile to and distrustful of Alex.
(Fireblade does have moments of sad reflection/pity it seems but how this pertains to Alex is yet to be seen.)
The rest seem to be divided between hostility and neutrality with a scattering of cautious curiosity.


That comes close to my own ideas.
Stillstorm clearly treats him like a hostile alien or some form of Umiak spy.
Tempo is very cunning and I got the impression that Alex should better not trust her too much.
Fireblade seems to just do her Job as her facial expression implies to me. Although she looks kind of worried or sad on the las page of the first chapter.
Beryl on the other side apears as the most friendly Loroi to Alex and the reader. To me she just appears to be curious in most situation and not sexually interessted. In other situations she appears to be offended by Alex: look at her face right after that elevator accident on the hallway (sorry, I don´t have the page number at hand) or when Alex realizes how many Loroi ships are in that "tiny" strikegroup. Therefore I´m not shure if she just playes the "good space elve" part here.

So, a new question:
How would a Loroi male react to a potential human mating rival?

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Wed Dec 26, 2012 12:48 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Victor_D wrote:
I am familiar with the concept. I've always thought it has a lot to do with a) 'inhuman movement'; b) lack of a 'soul'/conscious life. What you say makes for an interesting argument, but would you do this with a zombie:


You're relatively new on the forums so you may not have had a chance to see the character sheets, but Beryl has Xenophilia (not what you think), so she's going to be much more accepting of Alex then the other Loroi. She might not be showing that level of body language to a slug-creature, but a lot of what's going on with her and Alex is particular to her, not to the Loroi as a whole.

Quote:
*snip stuff about taste*


Taste is going to be highly variable. What gets one Loroi going may turn another off, same as us. IMO it's not a question of if there will be Loroi interested in screwing humans, it's a question of what percentage.

Quote:
I don't think so. Humans are too similar to the Loroi physically to be wiped out without emotional/moral consequences. It would definitely be more ethically taxing than wiping out overgrown slugs or other creatures that look and behave nothing like you.


More than just ethical. We probably represent a major part of their history, it may be a part they don't want to be brought up (since they'd rather be created from whole cloth to be more special) but the value of picking us apart genetically and examining our history is too high for them to give up.

Trantor wrote:
No purging. The cat is already out of the bag for this one, since the Barsam and the Historians know about us.


This is vitally important to any discussion about genocide. The Barsam know about us and Mozin isn't going to stay quiet. Our existence throws a MAJOR wrench into the mythology that the Loroi have built up around themselves and wiping us out will be confirmation to a lot of their allies that they don't have a response to our existence. That is very dangerous.

Quote:
And the latter are IMHO the 3rd party in this war, since they have superior firepower to both Loroi and Umiak.

Our appearance comes in handy to them, since they´re fine with this war of attrition between two unpopular parties.
After a pyrrhic Loroi victory they will have given us enough tech to be on par with Loroi, so that they don´t have to fear a Loroi aggression to them.


Betting on us AGAINST hot blue space elves is a bad idea. We'd much rather work with the space elf amazons as their fringe benefits are far more compelling than the fringe benefits the Historians are likely to offer.

Alienscifi wrote:
I still do want I basic answer to the question "Could a human and a Loroi have sex if they wanted to?"


I've never seen any indication that they can't.

sunphoenix wrote:
but it would seem to me - at least, you don't get socially sorry for making an newly discovered alien species uneasy with curious questions about their mating habits or empathic enough to be inspired enough to offer QUOTE: "I was concerned for your health that we might have to implement some sort of... accommodation.", unless you find them at least a little attractive and appealing in such a manner.


Or perhaps you are concerned because they're physically similar and you're a massive nerd who over-analyzes everything (since it's your job) and you care because you're nice and you like to be helpful and you desperately want the alien to like you so that you can pick it's brain of everything (and I do mean EVERYTHING) since it's your job to know everything. You know, because you're Beryl. This isn't to say that I don't think she's the most likely to volunteer for "accommodations", just that she doesn't have to want to screw him to be nice to him.

Quote:
I think, even if only a little, those natural female and male pheromones do have at least some minor effect in - if not mentally at least physically, informing both Loroi and humans of the possibility of a compatible sexual partner.


Pheromones will almost certainly not work, but they are also totally unnecessary. I see people bring up pheromones when this topic comes up fairly often, my answer is this: Does a dildo produce pheromones? How about a Fleshlight? A porn movie? pheromones might help, but they are in no way critical.

Mayhem wrote:
Reviewing pages 19 - 101 Beryl is the only Loroi so far that is clearly (& honestly) friendly to Alex.
Tempo is a spy and a diplomat so we can't determine anything about her real attitude to Alex from her behaviour.
Fireblade and Stillstorm are clearly hostile to and distrustful of Alex.
(Fireblade does have moments of sad reflection/pity it seems but how this pertains to Alex is yet to be seen.)
The rest seem to be divided between hostility and neutrality with a scattering of cautious curiosity.


In addition I don't think that anything Tempo has done would even indicate friendliness in the first place. She's been professional, not friendly.

Quote:
So it seems reasonable that the typical Loroi female would be unlikely to be interested in becoming intimate with a human male.


Keep in mind that so far we've covered probably about 30-60 minutes of screen times (give or take), most of the Loroi that we've seen looking at him are probably seeing him for the first time and under suspicious circumstances. I think drawing conclusions from that is pre-mature.

Suederwind wrote:
Fireblade seems to just do her Job as her facial expression implies to me. Although she looks kind of worried or sad on the las page of the first chapter.


I personally think Fireblade is more interested in him then she's likely to let on for a while.

Quote:
So, a new question:
How would a Loroi male react to a potential human mating rival?


Loroi male: "What do you mean mating...rival? I'm not familiar with this concept."


Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:20 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Trantor wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
Given that if the Loroi do choose to purge humanity, they will go to great lengths to prevent anyone else finding out about the human Lotai
No purging. The cat is already out of the bag for this one, since the Barsam and the Historians know about us.
So what?

An Alliance has not yet been formed.
If the Loroi "negotiation" fleet after much effort and time determine that
  1. humanity really is an Umiak plot
  2. or humanity is secretly dealing with the Umiak
  3. or humanity is not negotiating in good faith
  4. or that humanity just wouldn't work out with the Loroi union
then extermination would be an appropriate response.

If the Barsam and the Historians aren't included in the negotiation fleet then they would have no way to know better.
And with the ongoing war who has the resources to look into paranoid conspiracy theories.

Trantor wrote:
And the latter are IMHO the 3rd party in this war, since they have superior firepower to both Loroi and Umiak.
That is my gut suspicion too.

---

Honestly I don't think wiping out humanity would be their first choice.
As I wrote before, if we can produce their fuel then we make for a great staging post for strikes in Umiak territory.

The question becomes what to do if this staging post gets attacked by a massively more numerous Umiak fleet.
  1. retreat and leave billions of Lotai capable self-preserving sentient beings to negotiate their way out of being exterminated.
  2. exterminate humanity and retreat
  3. retreat with a few humans and leave the rest as in 1 or 2
  4. fight to the bitter end and leave the surviving humans as in 1
What would be the smart contingency orders then?

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Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:22 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Mayhem wrote:
Trantor wrote:
Mayhem wrote:
Given that if the Loroi do choose to purge humanity, they will go to great lengths to prevent anyone else finding out about the human Lotai
No purging. The cat is already out of the bag for this one, since the Barsam and the Historians know about us.
So what?

An Alliance has not yet been formed.
If the Loroi "negotiation" fleet after much effort and time determine that
  1. humanity really is an Umiak plot
  2. or humanity is secretly dealing with the Umiak
  3. or humanity is not negotiating in good faith
  4. or that humanity just wouldn't work out with the Loroi union
then extermination would be an appropriate response.

If the Barsam and the Historians aren't included in the negotiation fleet then they would have no way to know better.

No, the Historians would prevent that. We will become too much of an asset to them.

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Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:40 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
fredgiblet wrote:
Quote:
After a pyrrhic Loroi victory they will have given us enough tech to be on par with Loroi, so that they don´t have to fear a Loroi aggression to them.

Betting on us AGAINST hot blue space elves is a bad idea.

Now and in the next few decades, yes. But later, when we overtake them in tech?

fredgiblet wrote:
We'd much rather work with the space elf amazons as their fringe benefits are far more compelling than the fringe benefits the Historians are likely to offer.

What could that look like?

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Wed Dec 26, 2012 1:44 pm
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Posts: 251
Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Trantor wrote:
No, the Historians would prevent that. We will become too much of an asset to them.


Uhm... :? are you certain we want to be an asset to them (do we even know what kind of asset we could be?)?

Seriously if we are scared of what the loroi would do to us or the umiak.
We have to scared shitless about the third party aliens that would love to get their hands on our telepathic resistance (and have no moral qualms about acquiring it either).

A human brain would probably go a million talents per half.

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Wed Dec 26, 2012 2:47 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Jericho wrote:
Trantor wrote:
No, the Historians would prevent that. We will become too much of an asset to them.

Uhm... :? are you certain we want to be an asset to them

What is the alternative?


Jericho wrote:
(do we even know what kind of asset we could be?)?

Yes, their cannonfodder for the next war, if either Humans or Loroi are playing stoopid.

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Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:00 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Trantor wrote:
What is the alternative?


Ah... good point.

Trantor wrote:
Yes, their cannonfodder for the next war, if either Humans or Loroi are playing stoopid.


What war? Are you certain that humanity and the loroi will go to war? If we have survived the war with the umiak together then why would we feel the need to fight one another?
Clearly we already serve a purpose for one another?

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If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through. General C.H Melchett commander of some unknown british regiment in the western front.


Wed Dec 26, 2012 3:11 pm
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