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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
What's the IQ distribution like for Loroi? Is it the same as in humans, or gender reversed?


Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:30 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
If the loroi are an engineered species I'd expect the IQ distribution to be very clustered around the middle of the bell curve, far more so than in humanity, unless their design allowed for mutations. Then again, telepathy might be such a powerful tool to maintain societal control that extreme IQ outliers would be automatically cleaned out of the gene pool regardless of mutations.
Then again, a telepathic society could counteract the human need for stable middle-of-the-road levels of IQ and therefore allow for a wider distribution without it negatively affecting societal health, thus less clustering around the middle.


Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:26 am
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Post IQ Distribution
Werra wrote:
What's the IQ distribution like for Loroi? Is it the same as in humans, or gender reversed?

I suspect that the distribution curves might be taller (more individuals near the mean and fewer at the extremes) for Loroi, chiefly because of their eugenics policies.

As for gender distribution, it's difficult to say since the Loroi male and female populations are so drastically different in size and in societal roles; it's hard to predict how these factors might affect IQ distribution, especially since we don't really understand the cause behind the differing IQ distribution curves in humans males and females (the female curve is slightly taller, with a slightly larger percentage near the mean and fewer at either extreme than the males). We might expect that these differences are reversed in the Loroi, since the females engage in high-risk careers somewhat similar to human males; but the Loroi males are not directly analogous to human females, as the population is much smaller as a percentage, are much more closely protected and live much longer (the average age of a Loroi male will be much higher than the average age of a Loroi female).

I doubt that any IQ distribution differences in Loroi males and females would be very noticeable, since they have very different, rigidly defined roles, and don't compete for the same jobs or rewards. I think both the magnitude and the importance of such differences are often exaggerated in humans; it has been suggested that human male dominance in scientific and technological achievement can be explained by the slightly larger percentage of male IQ's at the higher end due to the flatter curve... but for one thing, the numbers don't add up (if excellence in STEM was based solely on IQ, we should expect to see far more female inventors and Nobel prize winning scientists than there are), and for another, I think that the main reason there are so few women at the top of science & engineering professions is because it has been clearly demonstrated that there is much more variability in the distribution of personality traits between the sexes than there is in IQ, and a smaller percentage of women are interested in careers in science & engineering, regardless of IQ. But most Loroi don't even choose their own careers, so any differences in these curves would be masked.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Arioch wrote:
Werra wrote:
What's the IQ distribution like for Loroi? Is it the same as in humans, or gender reversed?

I suspect that the distribution curves might be taller (more individuals near the mean and fewer at the extremes) for Loroi, chiefly because of their eugenics policies.

As for gender distribution, it's difficult to say since the Loroi male and female populations are so drastically different in size and in societal roles; it's hard to predict how these factors might affect IQ distribution, especially since we don't really understand the cause behind the differing IQ distribution curves in humans males and females (the female curve is slightly taller, with a slightly larger percentage near the mean and fewer at either extreme than the males). We might expect that these differences are reversed in the Loroi, since the females engage in high-risk careers somewhat similar to human males; but the Loroi males are not directly analogous to human females, as the population is much smaller as a percentage, are much more closely protected and live much longer (the average age of a Loroi male will be much higher than the average age of a Loroi female).

I doubt that any IQ distribution differences in Loroi males and females would be very noticeable, since they have very different, rigidly defined roles, and don't compete for the same jobs or rewards. I think both the magnitude and the importance of such differences are often exaggerated in humans; it has been suggested that human male dominance in scientific and technological achievement can be explained by the slightly larger percentage of male IQ's at the higher end due to the flatter curve... but for one thing, the numbers don't add up (if excellence in STEM was based solely on IQ, we should expect to see far more female inventors and Nobel prize winning scientists than there are), and for another, I think that the main reason there are so few women at the top of science & engineering professions is because it has been clearly demonstrated that there is much more variability in the distribution of personality traits between the sexes than there is in IQ, and a smaller percentage of women are interested in careers in science & engineering, regardless of IQ. But most Loroi don't even choose their own careers, so any differences in these curves would be masked.


You might spend some time talking with women in the STEM fields and realize that last bit is untrue, except in the sense that many women are not "interested" in STEM careers because of systemic and deep rooted gender biases. And those that do "stick with it" are, again, systematically denied the same opportunities for advancement, either from outright intimidation and sexual harassment, or from persistent legacy attitudes among their peers (men, and women). This causes a significant dropping of STEM careers early on by women. If you want, I can point you to relevant and current research in these areas and suggest a number of women to follow to get a sense of how pervasive this problem is.

I believe you are generally correct in terms of IQ distributions, but there is always the specter of uncorrected bias in the testing methodologies and interpretations. But as you say, I don't think there'd be much in the way of detectable difference in the Loroi, any more than there really is (day to day) among humans.

CJSF


Mon Dec 09, 2019 3:49 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Yes. Whenever I hear about measured differences between males and females I always worry about experimental design (sample size, selection of participants (a lot of participants are recruited in university campuses, which puts some interesting pressures on age, social background and especially education level) and uncorrected confounding factors) and (except for gross physical attributes) what the impact of social conditioning is.

So I think that in the real world we should try to judge people one by one, rather than making assumptions. For a technical role, I’d much rather hire Grace Hopper than Steve-who-can’t-count-past-10-with-his-shoes-on.

It’s actually great that there are a variety of people in the world, because I love being an engineer and wouldn’t do well being a lawyer or accountant or medical doctor.

On the Loroi front, there might be a lot of tragic cases where the caste system - and expectations thereof - might have people tragically mismatched to their role in life. Eg a Loroi woman who could have made a supreme tactician but was born to a civilian caste and is a mediocre farmer. Or a Loroi man who could have been a visionary logistician but is instead relegated to a back-blocks philosophical retreat because he spends half his days leaking thoughts about how he doesn’t feel like he’s doing anything useful.


Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:43 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
cacambo43 wrote:
You might spend some time talking with women in the STEM fields and realize that last bit is untrue, except in the sense that many women are not "interested" in STEM careers because of systemic and deep rooted gender biases. And those that do "stick with it" are, again, systematically denied the same opportunities for advancement, either from outright intimidation and sexual harassment, or from persistent legacy attitudes among their peers (men, and women). This causes a significant dropping of STEM careers early on by women. If you want, I can point you to relevant and current research in these areas and suggest a number of women to follow to get a sense of how pervasive this problem is.


This is an outright falsehood. Studies on gender bias in hiring find that men do not exhibit gender-bias against hiring or advancing women (being in fact slightly more likely to hire or advance a woman over a man depending on circumstances) while women to a greater degree exhibit gender-bias in hiring or advancing women. (Ie, women discriminate against men when they are in hiring positions but men don't discriminate against women.)
Sources:
Beugnot, J., & Peterlé, E. (2020). Gender bias in job referrals: An experimental test. Journal of Economic Psychology, 102209.
Brown, M., Setren, E., & Topa, G. (2016). Do informal referrals lead to better matches? Evidence from a firm’s employee referral system. Journal of Labor Economics, 34(1), 161–209.
Fernandez, R. M., & Sosa, M. L. (2005). Gendering the job: Networks and recruitment at a call center. American Journal of Sociology, 111(3), 859–904.
Rudman, L. A., & Goodwin, S. A. (2004). Gender differences in automatic in-group bias: Why do women like women more than men like men? Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 87(4), 494–509.

cacambo43 wrote:
I believe you are generally correct in terms of IQ distributions, but there is always the specter of uncorrected bias in the testing methodologies and interpretations. But as you say, I don't think there'd be much in the way of detectable difference in the Loroi, any more than there really is (day to day) among humans.

The specter is just that, a specter. A non-existent phantom invoked by those who are unhappy with unequal IQ distributions.


Mon Dec 09, 2019 4:48 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
kiwi wrote:
Yes. Whenever I hear about measured differences between males and females I always worry about experimental design (sample size, selection of participants (a lot of participants are recruited in university campuses, which puts some interesting pressures on age, social background and especially education level) and uncorrected confounding factors) and (except for gross physical attributes) what the impact of social conditioning is.

IQ and General Intelligence are the most well-established and empirically verified factors of measurement in social science. This tactical nihilist skepticism people display when discussing them stem not from any verifiable shortcomings in the research but from those individuals' cognitive dissonance between the empirically verified facts of IQ and GI, and their clinging to the facile ideology of brainpower egalitarianism and tabula rasa.

kiwi wrote:
So I think that in the real world we should try to judge people one by one, rather than making assumptions. For a technical role, I’d much rather hire Grace Hopper than Steve-who-can’t-count-past-10-with-his-shoes-on.

This is not a situation that ever arises, though. Steve-who-can't-count will likely self-filter out of the pool far before attempting to be hired for a high-intellect job. What we are asking is why there are so few Grace Hopper's compared to Steve Jobs (or insert male engineer of your choice). IQ and personality distribution have far more explanatory power than a ridiculous misandric conspiracy theory that "men be keeping the womenfolk down", which is not borne out by actual studies on the topic.


Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:01 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Arioch wrote:
Werra wrote:
What's the IQ distribution like for Loroi? Is it the same as in humans, or gender reversed?

I suspect that the distribution curves might be taller (more individuals near the mean and fewer at the extremes) for Loroi, chiefly because of their eugenics policies.

As for gender distribution, it's difficult to say since the Loroi male and female populations are so drastically different in size and in societal roles; it's hard to predict how these factors might affect IQ distribution, especially since we don't really understand the cause behind the differing IQ distribution curves in humans males and females (the female curve is slightly taller, with a slightly larger percentage near the mean and fewer at either extreme than the males). We might expect that these differences are reversed in the Loroi, since the females engage in high-risk careers somewhat similar to human males; but the Loroi males are not directly analogous to human females, as the population is much smaller as a percentage, are much more closely protected and live much longer (the average age of a Loroi male will be much higher than the average age of a Loroi female).

I doubt that any IQ distribution differences in Loroi males and females would be very noticeable, since they have very different, rigidly defined roles, and don't compete for the same jobs or rewards. I think both the magnitude and the importance of such differences are often exaggerated in humans; it has been suggested that human male dominance in scientific and technological achievement can be explained by the slightly larger percentage of male IQ's at the higher end due to the flatter curve... but for one thing, the numbers don't add up (if excellence in STEM was based solely on IQ, we should expect to see far more female inventors and Nobel prize winning scientists than there are), and for another, I think that the main reason there are so few women at the top of science & engineering professions is because it has been clearly demonstrated that there is much more variability in the distribution of personality traits between the sexes than there is in IQ, and a smaller percentage of women are interested in careers in science & engineering, regardless of IQ. But most Loroi don't even choose their own careers, so any differences in these curves would be masked.

The way Loroi society is set up could easily produce fierce competition between the females of the species for Torrai caste membership and other high ranks that allow to frequently breed.
Since intelligence is immensely important in attaining such positions (hopefully), there could be a strong selective pressure for intelligent women.

How does Loroi society decide which males are top quality? Do they value academic achievements as high as (directly) inborn qualities such as telekinetics?


Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:51 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Werra wrote:
The way Loroi society is set up could easily produce fierce competition between the females of the species for Torrai caste membership and other high ranks that allow to frequently breed.
Since intelligence is immensely important in attaining such positions (hopefully), there could be a strong selective pressure for intelligent women.

Naturally there is positive selection pressure for traits like intelligence, but there is nothing about such selection that is gender exclusive; a smarter female's offspring have the same chance to also be smarter whether they are male or female.

Werra wrote:
How does Loroi society decide which males are top quality? Do they value academic achievements as high as (directly) inborn qualities such as telekinetics?

In terms of desirability as a mate, up to a certain point, a male's expertise and accomplishments enhance his status, especially if he is employed in fields that are in some way associated with the mating encounters themselves; for example, a top telepathic therapist or a particularly famous scholar might be especially desired as a mating partner. But above a certain level of status, a male's social status has a lot to do with who his relatives are. I think the most valuable thing a male can offer the ultra-high-status female is a point of social contact with his even-higher-status female relatives and the prestige that goes with it. And, I suppose, as breeding stock, the relatives of highly successful females will be assumed to carry some of the same positive traits that made their relatives successful.

However, higher male status does not equate to more offspring. Indeed, it might be the reverse case: higher-status males tend to be mated to older females, who are progressively less fertile as they age.

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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Arioch wrote:
Werra wrote:
The way Loroi society is set up could easily produce fierce competition between the females of the species for Torrai caste membership and other high ranks that allow to frequently breed.
Since intelligence is immensely important in attaining such positions (hopefully), there could be a strong selective pressure for intelligent women.

Naturally there is positive selection pressure for traits like intelligence, but there is nothing about such selection that is gender exclusive; a smarter female's offspring have the same chance to also be smarter whether they are male or female.

Werra wrote:
How does Loroi society decide which males are top quality? Do they value academic achievements as high as (directly) inborn qualities such as telekinetics?

In terms of desirability as a mate, up to a certain point, a male's expertise and accomplishments enhance his status, especially if he is employed in fields that are in some way associated with the mating encounters themselves; for example, a top telepathic therapist or a particularly famous scholar might be especially desired as a mating partner. But above a certain level of status, a male's social status has a lot to do with who his relatives are. I think the most valuable thing a male can offer the ultra-high-status female is a point of social contact with his even-higher-status female relatives and the prestige that goes with it. And, I suppose, as breeding stock, the relatives of highly successful females will be assumed to carry some of the same positive traits that made their relatives successful.

However, higher male status does not equate to more offspring. Indeed, it might be the reverse case: higher-status males tend to be mated to older females, who are progressively less fertile as they age.



So, Nepotism.


Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:50 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
:D :D :D :D :D

boldilocks wrote:
cacambo43 wrote:
You might spend some time talking with women in the STEM fields and realize that last bit is untrue, except in the sense that many women are not "interested" in STEM careers because of systemic and deep rooted gender biases. And those that do "stick with it" are, again, systematically denied the same opportunities for advancement, either from outright intimidation and sexual harassment, or from persistent legacy attitudes among their peers (men, and women). This causes a significant dropping of STEM careers early on by women. If you want, I can point you to relevant and current research in these areas and suggest a number of women to follow to get a sense of how pervasive this problem is.


This is an outright falsehood. Studies on gender bias in hiring find that men do not exhibit gender-bias against hiring or advancing women (being in fact slightly more likely to hire or advance a woman over a man depending on circumstances) while women to a greater degree exhibit gender-bias in hiring or advancing women. (Ie, women discriminate against men when they are in hiring positions but men don't discriminate against women.)
Sources:
Beugnot, J., & Peterlé, E. (2020). Gender bias in job referrals: An experimental test. Journal of Economic Psychology, 102209.
Brown, M., Setren, E., & Topa, G. (2016). Do informal referrals lead to better matches? Evidence from a firm’s employee referral system. Journal of Labor Economics, 34(1), 161–209.
Fernandez, R. M., & Sosa, M. L. (2005). Gendering the job: Networks and recruitment at a call center. American Journal of Sociology, 111(3), 859–904.
Rudman, L. A., & Goodwin, S. A. (2004). Gender differences in automatic in-group bias: Why do women like women more than men like men? Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 87(4), 494–509.

cacambo43 wrote:
I believe you are generally correct in terms of IQ distributions, but there is always the specter of uncorrected bias in the testing methodologies and interpretations. But as you say, I don't think there'd be much in the way of detectable difference in the Loroi, any more than there really is (day to day) among humans.

The specter is just that, a specter. A non-existent phantom invoked by those who are unhappy with unequal IQ distributions.


Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:53 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
SaintofM wrote:
So, Nepotism.

Nepotism makes a lot of sense in a society whose eugenics program aims at building a genetically healthy and improved populace. It's nepotism in the same way that selective breeding of horses is nepotism.


Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:04 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Arioch wrote:
Naturally there is positive selection pressure for traits like intelligence, but there is nothing about such selection that is gender exclusive; a smarter female's offspring have the same chance to also be smarter whether they are male or female.

If you proclaim ex cathedra that this is the case for Loroi, then it's gospel. But there is nothing in nature that says IQ has to work this way. Genes for high IQ could be on the sex exclusive Chromosomes. Or simple sexual dimorphism could affect intelligence.

Arioch wrote:
However, higher male status does not equate to more offspring. Indeed, it might be the reverse case: higher-status males tend to be mated to older females, who are progressively less fertile as they age.

Interesting thought: Loroi females are both the sex that gets selected and does the selecting. To breed, a Loroi has to appeal to her female peers primarily and only then to a male. Or is a females encounter lost if the male declines to consumate it?


Tue Dec 10, 2019 2:45 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
kiwi wrote:
On the Loroi front, there might be a lot of tragic cases where the caste system - and expectations thereof - might have people tragically mismatched to their role in life. Eg a Loroi woman who could have made a supreme tactician but was born to a civilian caste and is a mediocre farmer. Or a Loroi man who could have been a visionary logistician but is instead relegated to a back-blocks philosophical retreat because he spends half his days leaking thoughts about how he doesn’t feel like he’s doing anything useful.


Maybe I'm missing something or misinterpreting how Loroi are filtered into their respective castes and how said castes work (loroi castes should be seen as different service branches of the military and not like the castes we have/had back on Earth), but I think this situation is near impossible.

A loroi isn't born into a caste, rather, during their early childhood they are evaluated telepathically by their caretakers and teachers and sorted into the caste that best fits the child's abilities. Diral bands are them formed out of children from the same "caste". Civilian loroi reproduce rarely if at all.


Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:19 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
boldilocks wrote:
This is an outright falsehood. Studies on gender bias in hiring find that men do not exhibit gender-bias against hiring or advancing women (being in fact slightly more likely to hire or advance a woman over a man depending on circumstances) while women to a greater degree exhibit gender-bias in hiring or advancing women. (Ie, women discriminate against men when they are in hiring positions but men don't discriminate against women.)

In which country were these studies conducted? Because here in Russia men mostly hire men and women - women because of strong gender bias.


Tue Dec 10, 2019 3:56 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
SVlad wrote:
In which country were these studies conducted? Because here in Russia men mostly hire men and women - women because of strong gender bias.

Mainly in the US and western europe.


Tue Dec 10, 2019 5:59 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
For what it's worth, I don't think you can draw any cultural equivalencies in that lane between Russia and the West.


Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:00 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
As far as we here speaking about humanity IQ and gender biases in general, such studies would also be unrelevant, because they reflect only one culture biases. The one of many.


Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:08 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
SVlad wrote:
As far as we here speaking about humanity IQ and gender biases in general, such studies would also be unrelevant, because they reflect only one culture biases. The one of many.


To an extent. From what I've read, IQ tests are not biased (as uncomfortable as the results may be when applied to demographics). For one example, pattern matching is pattern matching, no matter your nationality, race, age, etc.

Worthwhile read on the subject.

Given what we know of the Loroi as an engineered race, it would make sense that as a whole, they would skew towards the middle but otherwise follow a normal (if more peaked) bell curve.

It's been a long time since I took statistics. Does anyone here work stats as part of their job or have you recently taken a course in it? Regarding Loroi men, can any meaningful comparisons be made between two populations where one is 1/8th the size of the other?


Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:32 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
orion1836 wrote:
SVlad wrote:
As far as we here speaking about humanity IQ and gender biases in general, such studies would also be unrelevant, because they reflect only one culture biases. The one of many.


To an extent. From what I've read, IQ tests are not biased (as uncomfortable as the results may be when applied to demographics). For one example, pattern matching is pattern matching, no matter your nationality, race, age, etc.


It's actually worse than that.
Studies on cultural bias in IQ tests found that IQ tests designed to remove cultural bias (for example, no english language knowledge necessary to do the test) widened the demographic scoring gaps that the postulation of cultural bias sought to explain.


Wed Dec 11, 2019 12:45 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
boldilocks wrote:
If the loroi are an engineered species I'd expect the IQ distribution to be very clustered around the middle of the bell curve, far more so than in humanity, unless their design allowed for mutations. Then again, telepathy might be such a powerful tool to maintain societal control that extreme IQ outliers would be automatically cleaned out of the gene pool regardless of mutations.
Then again, a telepathic society could counteract the human need for stable middle-of-the-road levels of IQ and therefore allow for a wider distribution without it negatively affecting societal health, thus less clustering around the middle.


A more narrow clustering around the middle could explain the difference in scientific development between loroi and humans. The loroi are further ahead but took a long time getting there while humanity advances rapidly. Loroi are smart but have fewer geniuses.


Tue Dec 17, 2019 10:01 pm
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
orion1836 wrote:
To an extent. From what I've read, IQ tests are not biased (as uncomfortable as the results may be when applied to demographics). For one example, pattern matching is pattern matching, no matter your nationality, race, age, etc.


That depends entirely on the test being used, and its generally *not* safe to assume that a test that seems to apply well to one area will apply well to another.

Unfortunately for those of us who like TTRPGs out there, intelligence is generally very hard to define in a way that's both measurable and accurate. The WISC and WAIS tests attempt to make up for this by focusing on spacial reasoning, pattern matching, etc, but even with that focus, some amount of cultural bias will have an impact regardless.

The problem with most IQ tests that remove cultural bias is that they mostly focus on removing the language requirement. Well, surprise surprise, not only do they have to suffer through translation issues, that also fails to cover a plethora of other concepts included within cultural bias that are harder to track.

For example, here's a weird one -- color differentiation. Older languages don't always differentiation between colors as much as modern English does (though its worth noting that some differentiate *more*). Its entirely possible for questions on an IQ test to rely on the participant identifying two colors as separate from each other ("Organize all the red objects into shape X, and the orange objects into shape Y") that simply don't translate well to the person's native culture and language.

Neither the WISC nor the WAIS are as bad about cultural specificity as, say, the SAT or ACT (which are both more measures of 'would this person perform well in a college environment' than actual IQ), but cultural comparison of IQ tests still need to be taken with a grain of salt.


Sat Dec 21, 2019 9:57 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
That still doesn't explain how various genetic backgrounds within one culture consistently perform different from one another. A performance gap that also remains constant(ish) across different cultures.


Sat Dec 21, 2019 10:26 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
Werra wrote:
That still doesn't explain how various genetic backgrounds within one culture consistently perform different from one another. A performance gap that also remains constant(ish) across different cultures.

Sure, but like I said, grain of salt. Just because you see a pattern doesn't mean there isn't an outside factor influencing the result. There can be genetic traits common to specific human phenotypes that could be influencing the result... but there also could be influence from parenting strategies that are cross-culturally common with that phenotype, limited population sizes skewing the results in one direction or another, influence from the cultural position of the type of people most commonly taking the test in that area (for example: Irish immigrants to the US in the 1910s, when IQ tests were first being developed, tended to be of middling education -- because they weren't so poor that they couldn't leave Ireland, but they were poor enough they wanted to), etc etc.

Don't assume IQ tests are perfect, because they're not. They're a measure of a complex system we don't fully understand, by the users actually using that system, of other users using that system. The only proper way to truly determine IQ would be an analysis of brain structure that we're nowhere near ready to conduct.


Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:22 am
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Post Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread
That they didn't differentiate between certain colors does not imply that they couldn't look at a blue and a red square and notice that they were different colors. (I believe scandinavians used the word blue even for black, but if you gave them a black ball and a blue ball they'd be able to tell the difference.)
At most you'd be able to find out that oh, maybe pygmies are all color blind and that would invalidate certain IQ tests, but that's largely irrelevant because they also score lower than the chinese on IQ tests that don't rely on color matching.

I'm not sure what kind of 'culture' would suffer some horrendous inability to evaluate this, for example:
Image

Unless that culture was universally unable to distinguish shapes, which would suggest that it's a problem that's not inherently cultural, because all cultures have outliers. (Perhaps all pygmys are far-sighted and so the image appears a blur, for example.)

Quote:
but there also could be influence from parenting strategies that are cross-culturally common with that phenotype

That is not what the research indicates. The research indicates that phenotypic expression will assert itself regardless of parenting strategy. (Unless the parenting strategy involves such obscene violence that the care-recipient doesn't survive or is entirely mangled by the process.)


Sat Dec 21, 2019 11:33 am
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