Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

[gaerzi]

A warrior can be expelled from the warrior class, but it would have to involve an unusual circumstance. A crime severe enough to warrant dishonorable discharge would usually be punished by execution instead. It's not that being a civilian is that bad, but even a criminal warrior is considered to have earned the dignity of a warrior's death, and the establishment doesn't like the optics of ex-warriors wandering around the civilian community.

What about an injury that cause the Loroi to become unfit for service? Or is Loroi medicine sufficiently advanced that there isn't any traumatism that can't be repaired short of death?

The corridors of Tempest are unrealistically large enough that the crew can jog the corridors or even play some sports up and down them.

Since the Loroi like to keep a large bubble of personal space to avoid involuntary telepathic invasion, excessively wide corridors is probably something that they want just to reduce the risk of accidental unwanted contact.

A Loroi onboard a human ship would probably find it unbearably cramped and claustrophobic.

[Arioch]

Bodybuilding isn't about strength, it's about appearance. Real athletes who train for strength and agility don't look like bodybuilders, and neither do real soldiers. There used to be a television show called American Gladiators which put contestants through various obstacle courses and against the show's "gladiators" who were bodybuilders and "professional wrestlers" (a.k.a. bodybuilders). The "gladiators" were mostly for show (they'd sometimes operate elements of the obstacles), and when they had to directly compete against contestants who were actual athletes, they didn't perform very well. I remember a particular event where the task was a relatively simple thing where the contestants had to get a ball in a goal that was guarded by gladiators, and it was two gladiators against two former college linebackers, and the linebackers just embarrassed them.

I'm not going to comment on the weight of infantry equipment at this time except to say that it has to be light enough for a soldier to operate effectively in.

A warrior can be expelled from the warrior class, but it would have to involve an unusual circumstance. A crime severe enough to warrant dishonorable discharge would usually be punished by execution instead. It's not that being a civilian is that bad, but even a criminal warrior is considered to have earned the dignity of a warrior's death, and the establishment doesn't like the optics of ex-warriors wandering around the civilian community.

What about an injury that cause the Loroi to become unfit for service? Or is Loroi medicine sufficiently advanced that there isn't any traumatism that can't be repaired short of death?

The Loroi warrior class is a social class; a Loroi warrior does not stop being a member of that class if she retires or becomes disabled. The majority of Loroi warriors are not front-line combat troops; there are a lot of "desk jobs" in the military, as well as in many government services that in our system are considered civilian jobs. So there is plenty for a warrior with health problems to do, even when ultra-tech medicine can't return her to combat.

[Snoofman]

Bodybuilding isn't about strength, it's about appearance. Real athletes who train for strength and agility don't look like bodybuilders, and neither do real soldiers.

In the words of Bruce Bexter, "Heroes don't look like me - not in the real world. In the real world they got bad teeth, a bald spot, and a beer gut."

[Cthulhu]

Bodybuilding isn't about strength, it's about appearance. Real athletes who train for strength and agility don't look like bodybuilders, and neither do real soldiers. There used to be a television show called American Gladiators which put contestants through various obstacle courses and against the show's "gladiators" who were bodybuilders and "professional wrestlers" (a.k.a. bodybuilders). The "gladiators" were mostly for show (they'd sometimes operate elements of the obstacles), and when they had to directly compete against contestants who were actual athletes, they didn't perform very well. I remember a particular event where the task was a relatively simple thing where the contestants had to get a ball in a goal that was guarded by gladiators, and it was two gladiators against two former college linebackers, and the linebackers just embarrassed them.

Oh yes, I remember that show, it aired here in Germany as well. I think that it was just a silly copy of Japanese shows, which are far weirder. Or, was that the other way round?

What I meant is that wielding melee weapons would certainly build up muscle mass, much more than carrying a blaster. I've done some sword fencing, and it can cause a lot of hurt in previously completely unknown places.

I'm not going to comment on the weight of infantry equipment at this time except to say that it has to be light enough for a soldier to operate effectively in.

Okay, that was a bit too specific.

How about a different question? If some Loroi are adept at pyrokinesis, does the opposite also exist? Instead of increasing temperature, is it possible to freeze something? Or is that just a subset of the same ability?

[Bamax]

Bodybuilding isn't about strength, it's about appearance. Real athletes who train for strength and agility don't look like bodybuilders, and neither do real soldiers. There used to be a television show called American Gladiators which put contestants through various obstacle courses and against the show's "gladiators" who were bodybuilders and "professional wrestlers" (a.k.a. bodybuilders). The "gladiators" were mostly for show (they'd sometimes operate elements of the obstacles), and when they had to directly compete against contestants who were actual athletes, they didn't perform very well. I remember a particular event where the task was a relatively simple thing where the contestants had to get a ball in a goal that was guarded by gladiators, and it was two gladiators against two former college linebackers, and the linebackers just embarrassed them.

Oh yes, I remember that show, it aired here in Germany as well. I think that it was just a silly copy of Japanese shows, which are far weirder. Or, was that the other way round?

What I meant is that wielding melee weapons would certainly build up muscle mass, much more than carrying a blaster. I've done some sword fencing, and it can cause a lot of hurt in previously completely unknown places.

I'm not going to comment on the weight of infantry equipment at this time except to say that it has to be light enough for a soldier to operate effectively in.

Okay, that was a bit too specific.

How about a different question? If some Loroi are adept at pyrokinesis, does the opposite also exist? Instead of increasing temperature, is it possible to freeze something? Or is that just a subset of the same ability?

It's included in the Teidar abilities. Mizol are far less powerful in telekinesis but can do it too.

[Tamri]

/

People, please, try to hide large quotes under the spoiler or edit them, otherwise, after a couple of cycles of detailed answers, the thread becomes extremely difficult to read.

What I meant is that wielding melee weapons would certainly build up muscle mass, much more than carrying a blaster. I've done some sword fencing, and it can cause a lot of hurt in previously completely unknown places.

Not really. Working with hand weapons in one way or another trains the muscles. But only groups of muscles. A man who swings a sword, a man who shoots a bow and a man who shoots a machine gun needs completely different muscle groups, and practically do not intersect.

Bodybuilding involves a uniform external development of all muscle groups. Excessive development, I would say.

How about a different question? If some Loroi are adept at pyrokinesis, does the opposite also exist? Instead of increasing temperature, is it possible to freeze something? Or is that just a subset of the same ability?

These are variations on the same skill. If you can change the temperature "up" - you can change it "down" by default.

Also with electrokinesis - if you can "quench" the current, then you can cause a discharge.

[Keklas Rekobah]

@Arioch: Is there a caste on Perrein that processes locally-grown food into edible form?

(No, guys, I do not mean ‘chefs’.)

I mean the Loroi equivalent of a specialist in preparing fugu to be both tasty and safe to eat.

No need for detail or even a name for the caste (if it exists).

[Arioch]

If some Loroi are adept at pyrokinesis, does the opposite also exist? Instead of increasing temperature, is it possible to freeze something? Or is that just a subset of the same ability?

It's the same ability, but I think it's more difficult to lower the temperature of an object than to raise it.

The Loroi only eat one meal a day! Is it in the morning, afternoon, or the middle of the day? How big is the meal? And do they snack?

It varies by subculture. On Perrein there is traditionally a large multicourse meal in the evening before sleep; this is probably the closest the Loroi have to our formalized dinners. In most other subcultures and in the military, meals are eaten when the opportunity presents itself, most often in the morning as part of preparation for the day, or in the middle of the day during a break. Standard Deinar "cuisine" consists of a lot of portable finger-foods like jerked meat and pockets (similar to pirozhki, tamales, etc.), so a Loroi may grab a bite whenever it's convenient. Some foods like Perrein sori are less nutrient-dense than Soia-liron foods like misesa and bizal, and so meal sizes are larger.

@Arioch: Is there a caste on Perrein that processes locally-grown food into edible form?

It wouldn't be a separate caste, no.

[Cthulhu]

Not really. Working with hand weapons in one way or another trains the muscles. But only groups of muscles. A man who swings a sword, a man who shoots a bow and a man who shoots a machine gun needs completely different muscle groups, and practically do not intersect.

Bodybuilding involves a uniform external development of all muscle groups. Excessive development, I would say.

Bodybuilders were just an example anyway, and an extreme one, too. Besides, I also asked about the weight of the equipment and weapons, precisely because of this. If the blasters are rather light and do not have much recoil, then they shouldn't lead to a significant muscle buildup. But, it's not particularly relevant to the story, so let's shelve it.

These are variations on the same skill. If you can change the temperature "up" - you can change it "down" by default.

Also with electrokinesis - if you can "quench" the current, then you can cause a discharge.

All psionic techniques are more or less based on the user's state of mind, so I'd hazard a guess that the concept of heating up might be far easier to implement than cooling.

[Tamri]

Bodybuilders were just an example anyway, and an extreme one, too. Besides, I also asked about the weight of the equipment and weapons, precisely because of this. If the blasters are rather light and do not have much recoil, then they shouldn't lead to a significant muscle buildup. But, it's not particularly relevant to the story, so let's shelve it.

Well, if you take a purely physiological approach ... The severity of the equipment worn is determined by the strength and endurance, first of all, of the back. Since the loroi +- are adequate for humans, the wearable weight should be in the range of 35-50 kg. Combat, according to the standards - 15-20 kg.

Yes, technology affects these boundaries, but without a full-fledged exoskeleton or exosuit - quite insignificantly.

The weight of hand weapons is determined by the strength of the hands and for non-mounted weapons is up to 7-8 kg in equipped form. Semi-mounted weapons are in the range of 10-15 kg. Easel portable weapons must either be collapsible or not exceed a weight of 40-50 kg, otherwise the gun crew simply will not carry it away.

These are approximate military standards in terms of weight, based on the need for a fighter to carry weapons, ammunition and equipment along with protection throughout the clash, while maintaining a balance of mobility and firepower. Since Loroy are very similar to people, their weight norms should be similar.



As for the development of muscles .... The modern soldier does not need strong muscles, he needs enduring muscles. However, even strong muscles are actually not very prominent and protruding ... In general, Loroi almost certainly does not have significant external muscles. Because it makes no sense for them, in addition, they are also women, and no matter how many women you roughen up, you will not achieve a result comparable to men. In addition to purely biochemical parameters (the hormonal background is different), they have a different mechanism for building muscle mass.

[gaerzi]

These are variations on the same skill. If you can change the temperature "up" - you can change it "down" by default.

If it's magic, yes.

But if it's science, even if it's fantasy pseudoscience, then not necessarily, no. There's those pesky laws of thermodynamics.

[Tamri]

If it's magic, yes.

But if it's science, even if it's fantasy pseudoscience, then not necessarily, no. There's those pesky laws of thermodynamics.

Reed this part of Insider first.

[gaerzi]

So it's magic.

That's fine, I do agree with the reasoning that trying to shoehorn a sciency-sounding explanation probably wouldn't work.

[Keklas Rekobah]

So it's magic.

That's fine, I do agree with the reasoning that trying to shoehorn a sciency-sounding explanation probably wouldn't work.

In addition to the question of how the effect is generated in the first place, psychokinesis as described in Outsider violates two laws of physics: the First Law of Thermodynamics (which states that energy cannot be added to or removed from a closed system) and Newton's Third Law of Motion, which states that for each action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Outsider "solves" this problem by not dealing with it: in an argument similar to the one used for hyperspace, we merely suppose that the PK force and the energy that powers it is somehow summoned from "outside" our observable system.

I look at it this way: The science of psionics is so far advanced that not even the best Loroi scientists (and a certain science-fiction webcomic author) can explain it.

[Snoofman]

So it's magic.

That's fine, I do agree with the reasoning that trying to shoehorn a sciency-sounding explanation probably wouldn't work.

In addition to the question of how the effect is generated in the first place, psychokinesis as described in Outsider violates two laws of physics: the First Law of Thermodynamics (which states that energy cannot be added to or removed from a closed system) and Newton's Third Law of Motion, which states that for each action there is an equal and opposite reaction. Outsider "solves" this problem by not dealing with it: in an argument similar to the one used for hyperspace, we merely suppose that the PK force and the energy that powers it is somehow summoned from "outside" our observable system.

I look at it this way: The science of psionics is so far advanced that not even the best Loroi scientists (and a certain science-fiction webcomic author) can explain it.

SpoilerShow

Arioch wrote in Outsider lore that the energy required for PK force comes from an unknown source. Not the loroi psionic herself. I'm beginning to suspect that the psionic energy comes from hyperspace. Indeed, since it has been established that the loroi seem to have no telepathic gene, the effects of jumping through hyperspace on sapient organisms could explain how sanzai is 'turned on' so to speak.

[Werra]

These are variations on the same skill. If you can change the temperature "up" - you can change it "down" by default.

You must have one weird microwave.

@Arioch
Is telekinesis required for any ability beyond basic Loroi telepathy? As in do all Loroi that can do more have telekinesis?

If not how widespread are such abilities amongst the Loroi and what type of everyday-uses have the Loroi found?

[Keklas Rekobah]

Disclaimer: Most of my understanding of the science-fiction concepts of hyperspace, psionics, and their inter-relation comes from Marc Miller’s Traveller RPG, and may conflict with Arioch’s explanations. What follows is not intended to replace any official explanation from Arioch.

The “Ancients” understood both hyperspace and psionics to such a degree that they could construct artificial intelligences with telepathy, telekinesis, and possibly other abilities including psionically-triggered interstellar “jumps”. Ancients’s science was so far advanced that no one understands what many of their artifacts were designed for, and much less how they were made.

(On rare occasions, I have allowed a misjump to trigger a marginal PC’s own latent psionic abilities, putting that PC on more equal footing with the others.)

There is an old meme that goes, “To understand hyperspace, you must first understand hyperspace.” Even the scientists of an advanced interstellar society studying the “jump” phenomenon may not understand why certain devices arranged in a particular order and triggered in a particular way will violate causality and place an object light-years away almost instantaneously in all frames of reference — the science behind jump drive is simply incomprehensible — yet obviously, the lack of understanding does not prevent jump drives from working.

Consider winemaking in the “BC” era: Everyone knew that grape juice processed and stored in a certain way would produce wine, even though no one had any knowledge of yeast cells, microbiology, or organic chemistry — Bronze Age science had no accurate explanation of how grape juice became wine, it could only describe the vintner’s process of winemaking as a recipe, and in similar terms one would use in describing bread making — the deep understanding of the process was simply not there.

So, we take a power source, a few capacitors, an exponentiator, a distribution manifold, and a superconductive “jump grid” embedded in the hull, apply power, access the navcomp, enter the coordinates, wait for the yellow light to turn blue, press the red button, and *BANG!* we are on our way!

As long as you can build the equipment and keep it all running, who needs to know every iota of science behind it?

So, give the Loroi a few more tech levels, and maybe they will come to understand what they are doing.

[Arioch]

Is telekinesis required for any ability beyond basic Loroi telepathy? As in do all Loroi that can do more have telekinesis?

If not how widespread are such abilities amongst the Loroi and what type of everyday-uses have the Loroi found?

There are two basic psionic abilities: telepathy and psychokinesis, and all other abilities are a subset of one or the other. Psychokinesis involves any manipulation of the material universe... matter, force and energy; Telepathy involves interactions between minds, in the abstract sense of the mind. All Loroi have telepathy, but only a small minority have psychokinesis.

There are nearly unlimited applications for psychokinesis, from flight to exploding heads to cheating at dice to hacking electronic devices... the limitation is in the rarety and variability of individual abilities.

[Kage Sama]

So, one way to look at it is pyrokinesis is simply using psychokinesis to speed up the molecules/atoms of a target to the point they begin generating heat. Exciting the molecules/atoms of a target is probably a simpler task than retarding the same set of molecules/atoms to produce a cryokinetic effect. Not to say it couldn't be done, but I suspect the control required to retard movement would make it a less combat-oriented skill and also one requiring a very-talented psychokineticist.

[Arioch]

So, one way to look at it is pyrokinesis is simply using psychokinesis to speed up the molecules/atoms of a target to the point they begin generating heat. Exciting the molecules/atoms of a target is probably a simpler task than retarding the same set of molecules/atoms to produce a cryokinetic effect. Not to say it couldn't be done, but I suspect the control required to retard movement would make it a less combat-oriented skill and also one requiring a very-talented psychokineticist.

That's more or less my thought... that it's probably easier to increase disorder in a system than it is to make it more ordered.