Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

[CatColonist]

What does the internal hierarchy of the Nedatan look like? I noticed on the Nedatan costume drawing that there are deacons and cardinals. Do these positions have much authority over their fellow order members? I know that mating encounters are organized by high ranking warriors, but are high ranking Nedatan also involved in the process?

[Arioch]

What does the internal hierarchy of the Nedatan look like? I noticed on the Nedatan costume drawing that there are deacons and cardinals. Do these positions have much authority over their fellow order members? I know that mating encounters are organized by high ranking warriors, but are high ranking Nedatan also involved in the process?

Male members of internal order hierarchies have some authority over their male members, but this is mostly in terms of their specific profession (and in the Nedatan that covers a variety of things, as they wear a lot of hats). They mostly don't get involved in matchmaking issues, unless their specialty involves some kind of therapy, in which they might have some say in which therapist is assigned to which patient. They also might have some say as to whether a particular male member is mentally or physically well enough to be available for mating encounters, but that is normally the sort of thing that is managed by the Detair caretakers.

[Snoofman]

Can the Nedatan refuse a military order?

[Arioch]

Can the Nedatan refuse a military order?

The government is military, so ultimately all Loroi are subject at some level to military authority. The military generally doesn't give a lot of orders to Nedatan, as they (and any other civilian organization) are not within the direct military command hierarchy, but Nedatan are still subject to the enforcement of laws. A warrior can give similar kinds of orders to a Nedatan that we would be expected to obey from a police officer or a magistrate.

[CatColonist]

Are the warrior castes that we've seen so far the only castes or are there additional castes that aren't relevant to the comic? If there are additional castes, how big a part are they of the warrior caste? Do the castes we've seen make up most of the warriors, with other castes being small groups of specialists? Or is there something like a third primary combat caste like the Tenoin and Soroin that just isn't relevant to the comic?

[Arioch]

Are the warrior castes that we've seen so far the only castes or are there additional castes that aren't relevant to the comic? If there are additional castes, how big a part are they of the warrior caste? Do the castes we've seen make up most of the warriors, with other castes being small groups of specialists? Or is there something like a third primary combat caste like the Tenoin and Soroin that just isn't relevant to the comic?

There are probably other castes, but they'd be comparatively small and niche. The vast majority of warriors are Soroin, followed at a distant second place by the Tenoin, and everything else is comparatively niche.

[CatColonist]

Are the warrior castes that we've seen so far the only castes or are there additional castes that aren't relevant to the comic? If there are additional castes, how big a part are they of the warrior caste? Do the castes we've seen make up most of the warriors, with other castes being small groups of specialists? Or is there something like a third primary combat caste like the Tenoin and Soroin that just isn't relevant to the comic?

There are probably other castes, but they'd be comparatively small and niche. The vast majority of warriors are Soroin, followed at a distant second place by the Tenoin, and everything else is comparatively niche.

So it seems like the Soroin and Tenoin do a lot of jobs in the warrior caste. How often do they do the jobs of the more specialized castes? The Mizol, Listel, and Teidar have special inborn abilities, but a Soroin could do the job of a Gallen or a Doranzer with training.

[Arioch]

Are the warrior castes that we've seen so far the only castes or are there additional castes that aren't relevant to the comic? If there are additional castes, how big a part are they of the warrior caste? Do the castes we've seen make up most of the warriors, with other castes being small groups of specialists? Or is there something like a third primary combat caste like the Tenoin and Soroin that just isn't relevant to the comic?

There are probably other castes, but they'd be comparatively small and niche. The vast majority of warriors are Soroin, followed at a distant second place by the Tenoin, and everything else is comparatively niche.

So it seems like the Soroin and Tenoin do a lot of jobs in the warrior caste. How often do they do the jobs of the more specialized castes? The Mizol, Listel, and Teidar have special inborn abilities, but a Soroin could do the job of a Gallen or a Doranzer with training.

The Soroin are the main warrior caste -- you can find Soroin doing pretty much any task that a warrior can do that doesn't require specific psionic or physiological traits, whether that's in the infantry, on a starship, in the administrative office, in government, in a hospital, in police or emergency services, etc. The clerk for the Tempest's chief Mizol is Soroin. The officer running Tempest's subsystems (engineering) department is Soroin, not Gallen, and the head of its medical department is Soroin, not Doranzer. Pilots are most often Tenoin, but they don't have to be. Basically, it's nice to have a caste specialist to do a particular task, but if you don't have enough, then you train up some Soroin to do it. The only limit on what a Soroin can learn and do, aside from psi/physical limits, is that if they become advanced enough in the specialty they'll probably eventually be promoted to Torrai.

All the other castes are considered to be specialists. The Tenoin are by far the largest specialist caste, and they can perform most of the duties aboard a starship that Soroin can, but they are still considered by most to be a support caste (but don't let a Tenoin hear you say that). The main reason that the Soroin and Tenoin are different castes at all is because of issues during reunification (the Deinar warrior tradition became the Soroin, and the Taben tradition became the Tenoin). The initial division between Teidar and Mizol was for the same reasons.

[CatColonist]

There are probably other castes, but they'd be comparatively small and niche. The vast majority of warriors are Soroin, followed at a distant second place by the Tenoin, and everything else is comparatively niche.

So it seems like the Soroin and Tenoin do a lot of jobs in the warrior caste. How often do they do the jobs of the more specialized castes? The Mizol, Listel, and Teidar have special inborn abilities, but a Soroin could do the job of a Gallen or a Doranzer with training.

The Soroin are the main warrior caste -- you can find Soroin doing pretty much any task that a warrior can do that doesn't require specific psionic or physiological traits, whether that's in the infantry, on a starship, in the administrative office, in government, in a hospital, in police or emergency services, etc. The clerk for the Tempest's chief Mizol is Soroin. The officer running Tempest's subsystems (engineering) department is Soroin, not Gallen, and the head of its medical department is Soroin, not Doranzer. Pilots are most often Tenoin, but they don't have to be. Basically, it's nice to have a caste specialist to do a particular task, but if you don't have enough, then you train up some Soroin to do it. The only limit on what a Soroin can learn and do, aside from psi/physical limits, is that if they become advanced enough in the specialty they'll probably eventually be promoted to Torrai.

All the other castes are considered to be specialists. The Tenoin are by far the largest specialist caste, and they can perform most of the duties aboard a starship that Soroin can, but they are still considered by most to be a support caste (but don't let a Tenoin hear you say that). The main reason that the Soroin and Tenoin are different castes at all is because of issues during reunification (the Deinar warrior tradition became the Soroin, and the Taben tradition became the Tenoin). The initial division between Teidar and Mizol was for the same reasons.

Why are the subsystems and medical heads on the Tempest Soroin instead of Gallen and Doranzer? Are there not enough specialists with the necessary experience due to the war, or are those positions usually held by Soroin for some reason?

[Arioch]

Why are the subsystems and medical heads on the Tempest Soroin instead of Gallen and Doranzer? Are there not enough specialists with the necessary experience due to the war, or are those positions usually held by Soroin for some reason?

Gallen are mechanics and technicians; Doranzer are medics and medical technicians. If you have a limited number of trained specialists, you want them doing the job rather than sitting behind a desk managing other specialists. Especially in the case of the subsystems chief, she sits at a position on the bridge rather than in the engineering spaces, so she just needs to be a competent manager and technically proficient, and not necessarily a mechanic or engineer. (It was always something of a plot contrivance when Scotty was frequently at the engineering station on the bridge -- as far as I'm aware, real naval chief engineers rarely if ever set foot on the bridge.)

When it comes to being an actual doctor or engineer (I mean the kind that designs things, not the kind that keeps a ship going), that requires extensive education that isn't helped all that much by having worked as a medic, nurse, or mechanic first. So doctors or engineers are probably at least as likely if not more likely to be Soroin than Doranzer or Gallen. It's my understanding that medics and nurses rarely become doctors, in the same way that sergeants rarely become commissioned officers -- they're too busy working. During this war, the shortage of senior personnel is felt in all departments; normally in peacetime an XO would be Torrai, but Runel-Laurel is still Soroin. Even one of the SG51 squadron commanders (Nova of Winter Tide) was still only a Soroin.

On a Loroi ship, the shortage of senior specialty personnel is helped, especially in the case of the Doranzer, by sophisticated TL10 automation. Tempest doesn't have what we would call an actual doctor; instead it has a team of the equivalent of medics, nurses and technicians who operate the very capable automated medical equipment.

[QuakeIV]

Even on newer ships afaik the chief engineer (when the ship is big enough to have one) is usually with the machinery. Actually especially so for USN, the LCS kindof suck. (we will see how constellation finally works out)

[Arioch]

Even on newer ships afaik the chief engineer (when the ship is big enough to have one) is usually with the machinery. Actually especially so for USN, the LCS kindof suck. (we will see how constellation finally works out)

As I understand it from my research, on civilian ships at least, the deck and the engineering spaces are two different domains with different hierarchies. The chief engineer of a merchant vessel is usually equivalent in rank to the captain, but I don't think he's part of the normal chain of command. A typical merchant vessel (even a huge container ship) typically only has 4 deck officers including the captain, and a similar number of engineering officers, each managing their own sets of crewmembers. There's usually not much overlap in duties between the two. I would guess that it's not quite so segregated on a military vessel, where there needs to be a clearer chain of command and redundancy of duties, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was not all that different.

[QuakeIV]

To my understanding there are various senior officers under the CO/XO, one of which is in charge of engineering. I did go searching a bit and it seems 'chief engineer' would be more of a colloquialism and not what the officer in question would be formally called. From talking to submarine dudes in college, the engineering officer tends to do a fair bit of actual work in addition to being in charge of their department. Most ships companies aren't actually large enough for that to be a purely management/paperwork job. An engineering officer might approve a non-standard repair for instance, but it wouldn't be like you submit a written request, he would walk in and contribute his own thoughts, then tell you what to do. As of 2014 an Ohio would seem to generally go out with 30-40 dedicated engineers on board (in reality there seems to be some variability as compared to the paper complement). I don't know how carriers work, but with respect to the destroyers, I do know that aside from being far more formal and procedural like the rest of the surface fleet, they are pretty much the same as the submarines in that regard.

[CatColonist]

Do the support caste warriors have lower status than the combat castes? I know that they cannot normally hold command positions, are they viewed as "lesser warriors" because of this, or are they just seen as not having the skill set needed to command? How much of a say do the high ranking support castes have in the government?

I was also had a few questions about the different status groups of male Loroi.

1. Is the Nedatan a large group, or is it a small group of high status males? Do only high ranking warriors get to meet with Nedatan?
2. Are most males part of philosopher orders, or only the high status ones?
3. What is life like for males not in a philosopher order? Given Loroi gender roles, I'd imagine they'd be at least somewhat cloistered.

[Arioch]

Do the support caste warriors have lower status than the combat castes? I know that they cannot normally hold command positions, are they viewed as "lesser warriors" because of this, or are they just seen as not having the skill set needed to command? How much of a say do the high ranking support castes have in the government?

The support castes are combat castes -- they're all warriors, and those assigned to front-line units are equally likely to see combat action, whereas a Soroin or Tenoin assigned to a planetside desk job might have very little chance of seeing action. And aboard a spacecraft, everyone has an equal chance of dying if the ship blows up, whether she's a fighter pilot or a clerk. That said, groups of warriors in their own departments (who are usually of the same caste) tend to form little cliques. It's also true that there are jobs for which a high-ranking support warrior might not be qualified -- you're not going to take a Listel Librarian and place her in command of a starship squadron -- but that's not a issue of status.

Once you get to the level of government, pretty much everyone has been promoted to Torrai, so they're not really "support" anymore. It's still the case that not every officer will have the skills or experience for every job (Greywind's election to Azerein as a former Mizol did more than raise a few eyebrows), but there are non-Soroin Torrai at all levels of government, including the highest levels.

I was also had a few questions about the different status groups of male Loroi.

1. Is the Nedatan a large group, or is it a small group of high status males? Do only high ranking warriors get to meet with Nedatan?
2. Are most males part of philosopher orders, or only the high status ones?
3. What is life like for males not in a philosopher order? Given Loroi gender roles, I'd imagine they'd be at least somewhat cloistered.

All Loroi males have a certain elevated status level, but also live under certain restrictions. They're all officially wards of the state, and so they need permission to do a variety of different things (anything which might jeopardize their well-being, for example), and so this usually means living in some kind of managed order or commune.

These orders are organized by profession, like castes and guilds. A philosopher order is just one type (though it's a common type); non-philosopher orders range from medical and therapeutic disciplines to... well, just a place for talentless males to hang out. Most orders are local, similar to guilds; Nedatan is a notable exception. Nedatan is the largest single order, which covers a number of disciplines and is distributed across multiple worlds. It's fairly prestigious, and certainly higher status than some other orders (especially those that involve less important professions or no profession at all), but status is to a certain degree in the eye of the beholder, and it often is determined by individual attributes -- what is the individual's rank, who were his parents and family, what is his level of expertise and achievement, what is his reputation, etc. So there is a range of personal status within an order, especially one as large as Nedatan.

Matchmaking is mostly done by government bureaucracy, but in a variety of cases matchmaking decisions are delegated to various organizations (such as the order itself) or even individuals. So, for example, a therapeutic order may be able to make decisions as to who gets male therapy time based on need rather than the usual criteria of rank and status. Or, in the case of males' rights being awarded to a very high-ranking officer, she might choose to occasionally award mating time to a favorite low-ranking subordinate rather than to her peers. So it's not extremely unusual that a low-ranking warrior female might get matched with a high-ranking male.

It's possible that such a male might refuse the match, but if he's that snooty, hopefully whoever is responsible for making the match knows him well enough not to attempt to make that particular match.

[SaintofM]

I doubt Ark will answer this one as this might be spoilerific, butttttttttt

Alex, after being mind probed heavily, is seeing memories and having dreams from what I assume is Fireblade's past. Is it possible she is seeing the same from his?

[Arioch]

I generally don't comment on what individual characters are privately thinking or experiencing.

[QuakeIV]

Maybe this was asked already, whats with the different colors of glowing armor? Is that a rank thing?

e: does anecdotally seem like its a comissioned officer thing from the bridge pictures such as page 91

[Moon Moth]

Maybe this was asked already, whats with the different colors of glowing armor? Is that a rank thing?

e: does anecdotally seem like its a comissioned officer thing from the bridge pictures such as page 91

I think this page might have what you're looking for?

https://well-of-souls.com/outsider/loroi_ranks.html

[QuakeIV]

It does yeah, interesting.