[Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror (Completed)

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dragoongfa
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by dragoongfa »

The beginning of Chapter 8 should also mark me touching the 50% mark of the story. The outline I have in my head is for 16 chapters which with the current word count will bring the total to around 60.000 words, which brings this little fan fic well into novel length.

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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

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Chapter 8, part 2

Listel Sininran Sulfur was thankful that Shadowcloud handled the introductions with the new group of humans. There were four of them, two males and two females and out of the six human marines only their squad leader, Lieutenant Allerberger, remained aboard Silverspear.

Thanks to the small umbilical that the humans installed they all arrived without wearing spacesuits. The new group wore the same uniform, sea blue trousers and jacket, with a golden turtleneck that accompanied the minor golden decorative stripes on the jacket’s shoulders and neck. The jacket was also adorned with numerous colorful decorative patches; her first thought was that they were some sort of insignia but all of them had the exact same patches with the exception of a small scripted patch on their left chest, which undoubtedly was their written name.

Lieutenant Allerberger, who had quickly changed into his own uniform before the human shuttle left, wore an entirely different uniform. He wore white trousers, with a black coat and a black beret. Unlike the others he didn’t have any patches on his coat, only the name patch on his left chest with numerous decorative ribbons right below it. His beret had a patch of a trident at the front, which stood right above his left eye. A single six edged golden star decorated the top of each of each of his shoulders, probably rank insignia. His uniform however wasn’t the only thing that set him apart from the others, he was far more muscular that the other two human males who in turn where obviously more muscular than their females who for all intents and purposes were almost identical to them.

The two females were what drew the most attention, even away from the males. Instinctively even she thought them as opponents, up until Lieutenant Allerberger came back and put things in perceptive. One of the females, the older one judging by the minor signs of aging, was undoubtedly a medic as the first thing she did when she got out of the airlock was to go and inspect the marine they had healed, obviously disbelieving what she was seeing. She had auburn hair, tied in a short ponytail at the back of her head and she had the same pinkish color as most of the humans they had seen so far but her breasts seemed oversized to her eyes. The other one was younger and carried a small suitcase that contained various electronic devices which the humans swore that were necessary to record everything. This one was obviously younger than the other one, with short brown hair, a slightly brownish skin color and a body build that looked identical to a Loroi female's.

Thankfully Shadowcloud didn’t let diplomatic niceties get in the way of precaution, she had made it clear from early on that not one of them would be allowed to carry weapons aboard Silverspear again and she had made sure to have guards posted at the human airlock and for Soroin squads to patrol the rest of the ship, all of them fully armored.

Now Shadowcloud led the human delegation with two of her Teidars as escort and her by her side and still Sulfur couldn’t help but feel uneasy about everything.

“Don’t worry Listel, I don’t think that they mean us any harm and they wouldn’t live long enough if they did try anything.” Shadowcloud sent to her with a reassuring tone.

“It’s not just that…” Sulfur replied. "The fact that we can’t sense them and feel their minds does make everyone uneasy but it’s how they look that is really disconcerting."

“It would certainly be easier for us if they didn’t look like this but we both know something that the others don’t.” Shadowcloud reminded her.

“It’s also how their two sexes are set up. They look exactly like us and I know that they are as alien as the rest but the moment their females came into view I immediately sized them up as opponents.” Sulfur explained.

“I did so as well before remembering that naked male and how some of them looked at us. From the way the males carry themselves I believe that they traditionally protect their females.” Shadowcloud commented.

“We protect our males and whoever attacks one gets severely punished if she is lucky enough not to get killed by those present. Would their males react the same way?” Sulfur wondered.

“Perhaps they would but we also look like their females and… I don’t want to find out how both sides would react to physical violence with each other. For now let’s treat them all with respect while making sure not to let any bias creep into our behavior. They are aliens and we must handle them as such despite our natural inclinations.” Shadowcloud replied.

“How did Needle react to the human male?” Sulfur asked.

“She was overwhelmed. She is young and obviously bright but…” Shadowcloud begun to reply but it was obvious she didn’t believe what she was about to send. “No that male was indeed overwhelming. His facial features were soft and fair, just like our males but the way he was built was nothing like our males. He was a warrior and yet both of us failed to see him for that because of his male attributes. Needle didn’t even speak because she was afraid that she would embarrass herself in front of a male if she said something the wrong way. Then there were his size and muscles; no sane Loroi will ever choose to fight such a human male in hand to hand combat.”

“His squad leader looks older and rougher but he is obviously as well built as he was.” Sulfur commented.

“Still the similarity is there. If we have enough time after the demonstration I would like to have some small talk with them in order to get a look of their general outlook.”

“Will Soroin Torret Darkwing really be okay?” Sulfur asked in response.

“She is a warrior, I hope that she remembers what that means when she is whole again.” Shadowcloud then cut the conversation off as they reached their destination.

“Commander Summers, this is the conference room I told you about.” The Mizol said as she stopped in front of an open door and gestured inside.

“I understand.” The human officer replied as he and his team walked inside while the two Teidars stood guard just outside. Sulfur remembered that this particular room was used as the gathering place for the high ranking Soroin to discuss caste matters in relative privacy; that usually involved intense exchanges and even some sparring to vent their frustrations. Shadowcloud had made sure that the room was presentable and properly prepared before they got there.

“Please sit.” The Mizol said as she gestured to the five chairs that were arranged on one side of a long table; three more chairs were arranged at the other side as well. “As I told you earlier I would like to explain and demonstrate out telepathic abilities, in order for you to know what we Loroi are and aren’t capable of doing. This is a standard diplomatic procedure when contacting species that are unfamiliar with us.” With that the Mizol gestured to her to sit at one of the three empty chairs.

“We would appreciate such a demonstration as well. Will you answer any questions we may have?” Commander Summers asked.

“Of course.” Shadowcloud said as she sat next to Sulfur. “The easiest from all the forms of our telepathy to understand and the one you have witnessed firsthand; our Sanzai, the ability to telecommunicate. This ability is really split in two parts, sending and receiving. We can send and receive thoughts from a distance, with the distance itself being highly dependent on how strong and capable the sender is. Sending is like speech; it’s the transmission of properly articulated thoughts and emotions. To do this we have been trained from a very young age to properly construct our raw thoughts before sending them since the sending of raw thoughts is inherently irritating, inefficient and is seen as childish. This structuring however doesn’t mean that we hide or alter those thoughts in any meaningful way. We just send our thoughts in a truthful, coherent and efficient manner that is at least twice as quick as verbal speech. Skilled telepaths are of course capable of playing with their thoughts before sending them to hide something and even lie in a limited way but that is highly frowned up and impossible to do if the sender and the receiver are touching each other. Touching each other provides more bandwidth for sending and receiving, enough of it to completely read all surface thoughts and emotions. With this in mind it is easy to understand why touching each other is seen as a taboo for us and is only done between close friends or for certain caste functions. There are two types of sending, targeted and broadcasted. In targeted we send only to the individual we want to contact and in broadcasted to everyone within sending range. To receive a sending a Loroi has to allow the sender’s message inside their mind through our mental barriers. It is possible to choose not to listen to someone’s message by not letting it through but this is seen as rude when the sender is not an enemy. Sending is done in particular telepathic frequencies and with a set amount of telepathic strength in order not to cause discomfort to the receiver. Everyone has a distinct sending signature, which is highly dependent on ones personality and emotions; some of us have what is perceived to be irritating sending signatures but with time, training and experience it is possible to correct that. Do you have any question in regards to sending and receiving?”

“You said that to receive you have to allow the message to pass into your mind; does this mean that someone can cut themselves completely off?” Commander Summers asked.

“No, the mental barriers we have are there to cut off telepathic noise. These barriers can be as strong as the telepath raising them is but they can be overwhelmed with brute force. If a particular strong telepath decides to send a strong telepathic shout to someone, that shout will pass through the barriers. Such sendings are overwhelming and dangerous to others, they are rightfully considered to be a form of attack by us and those who do it without cause are punished. The same thing can happen if a large number of telepaths send a message to someone at the exact same time.” Shadowcloud replied and after a few moments the younger of the two females, Lieutenant Vinica, leaned towards Commander Summers and whispered something to him in their tongue. For a moment Sulfur sensed some irritation from Shadowcloud, the Mizol’s social instincts belching from the sight of a female speaking through a male instead of speaking her own mind like a warrior should. After that she felt a self centered irritation from her after the realization that humans obviously did things differently and this could just be a subordinate informing her commander about something.

“The way you put it sounds like how computers work, with stronger computers being able to overwhelm weaker ones and with many weaker ones being able to do the same to a stronger one.” Commander Summers commented after the human female finished telling him whatever she told him.

“That’s a very apt and accurate comparison.” Shadowcloud replied and the human officer nodded before asking another question.

“With how many people can someone communicate simultaneously with targeted sending?”

“That heavily depends on one's strength and skills. Even the weakest telepaths can send the same message to at least three targeted individuals but the more people you target the more taxing the sending becomes in an exponential manner. The real problem lies with receiving from multiple people, comprehending each different message and replying correctly to each sender. Due to this most friendly conversations between a small group of friends revolve around five to six individuals and even those tend to be a little chaotic.” The Mizol replied and the human officer nodded.

“Does this mean that you can follow two different conversations at the same time?”

“It is possible but it requires skill in order to not be confused by two different lines of thought.” Commander Summers then looked at the other humans before replying.

“That’s all the questions we have for now.”

“The next telepathic ability and one of its key aspects is sensing. We Loroi can sense every advanced lifeform up to a certain distance that is wholly dependent on ones telepathic strength. In general, the more advanced a species's higher brain system is, the easier it is for us to detect. Sensing is what we use to identify people who we want to communicate with via targeted sending. Sensing also allows us to read surface emotions and thoughts even from a distance but what we sense is not always accurate especially if the one we sense has been trained in mental discipline. If we want to make sure that what we sense from anyone is accurate then we have to touch them. I already explained to you comrade, Lieutenant Allerberger, that touching allows us to bypass mental barriers and negate telepathic limitations.” Shadowcloud paused at that point and sighed. “Normally this would be the point that I would ask for a volunteer to showcase sensing and sensing one’s mind via touching. I would ask the volunteer to think of something then I would sense what they were thinking and tell them what they thought.”

“I imagine that it would be quite unnerving for them.” Commander Summers commented.

“Indeed; some of us tend to find such reactions to be humorous.”

“I believe that we would also offer a spectacle but I think this won't happen with us.”

“That’s true, you are completely impervious to Sensing. We can’t sense you even from up close nor can we sense your thoughts and emotions when we touch you. Out of all the species that we have come in contact with you are the only one with this trait. Even the Mannadi, who many believe that are immune to our sensing, are detectable from up close and we can sense everything when we touch them.” Shadowcloud replied.

“Do you have any theory as to why this is the case with us? Especially considering how similar we are both in appearance and in other areas?” Commander Summers asked instantly.

“Nothing concrete, it comes to the surprise of many aliens but we Loroi don’t know how our telepathy works. We cannot detect it with technological means nor figure out why we have it. Some of us believe it to be some sort of divine gift; most of us take it as proof that we are the rightful heirs of the Soian empire, who were indeed telepaths as we have found out by researching their ruins.” Shadowcloud replied and Sulfur immediately realized that she intentionally moved the topic away from the physical similarity.

“We have only recently heard about the Soian empire and we have never come across any of their ruins. Are you somehow related to them?” Commander Summers asked and Sulfur immediately sensed disbelief from the Mizol next to her.

“Many species share a relation with the Soians, beyond our telepathy it’s not something that is unique on us.” Another deflection Sulfur realized. “The Soians were so widespread that I have trouble believing that you have only recently heard of them.” The Mizol pressed for what many believe to be an impossibility, especially with what Sulfur had found out in the human data.

“It’s true, we first heard about them from the Orgus refugees who themselves were perplexed that we didn’t have any knowledge about them and that we didn’t even speak the Trade language. They told us that all sentient species had legends about them and that plenty of planets were littered with the ruins of their civilization.” Commander Summers replied.

“The Soians indeed dominated the local bubble for an extended period of time, their legacy has shaped the local bubble into what it is now.” Shadowcloud said and frowned. “If what you say is true and you didn’t know Trade until very recently how come you are so fluent with it?”

“We don’t believe that we are that fluent but the Orgus have been teaching us Trade since they made contact with us, almost two years ago.”

“Two years?”

“I am sorry…” Commander Summers looked at the young female who immediately took out what looked like a small tablet computer from one of her pockets and tapped some commands on it before whispering something to her commanding officer. “An year is almost as long as your Tozon.”

“So your species didn’t have any knowledge of the Soians and the Trade language until two tozon’s ago?” Shadowcloud asked.

“That is correct.”

“Could a species master Historian Trade in under two Tozons?” Shadowcloud sent to Sulfur without looking at her.

“It is possible and if we take their rough pronouncement into consideration this may be the case.” Sulfur replied.

“What about their data?”

“I was curious about it and looked at it’s metadata, which was surprisingly easy to find, it showed that the data was compiled six nanapis ago.”
Shadowcloud nodded as if responding to the human.

“I have to say that your mastery of the Trade language is impressive, considering the limited time you had to learn it. Now do you have any questions in regards to sensing?”

“Yes, what is the range in which you can normally sense someone?” Commander Summers asked.

“It varies according to each individual’s telepathic strength but on average 130 mannals.” Shadowcloud replied and Commander Summers instantly looked at the young female who gave him an answer after checking her device.

“What’s the range of the strongest telepaths.” The human asked after he got an answer.

“I am glad that you asked because this would be the next subject that I would cover. There are dedicated castes of very strong telepaths whose members can on their own, sense and send messages across planets; but their sending is dangerous and is only used between members of their castes with lots of precautions. If amplified their sensing can easily reach interstellar ranges. This is widely known among all species that have come in contact with us but we don’t share details about this ability other that it does exist.” Commander Summers visibly became uncomfortable with that.

“That is a very potent ability.” He said after a few moments.

“It is indeed. Now the next subject I wanted to cover is amplification. Telepathic amplification is a technology which we managed to recover from Soian ruins and successfully reverse engineer. The amplifiers themselves don’t offer any new telepathic abilities but they multiply the potency of all existing abilities. They have their drawbacks but castes that rely on telepathy are not afraid to use them when needed.” Shadowcloud raised her hand and touched her amplifier with her pointer. “This is my amplifier, I am considered a very strong telepath and as you can guess by its size I have chosen an amplifier that multiplies these abilities by a large degree.”

“We… thought that it was some kind of jewelry, something to highlight rank or seniority status.” Commander Summers replied as he looked at Lieutenant Allerberger.

“The fact that you didn’t know about amplifiers and Teidars is one of the main reasons I was convinced that you are who and what you said you are.” Shadowcloud said as a matter of fact. “The final ability that I have to explain and showcase is telekinesis. Individuals with telekinesis are rare and vary greatly in strength. Regardless of their parental backgrounds, telekinetics are automatically inducted into one of two castes, the Teidar or the Mizol; with the strongest ones usually going to the combat oriented Teidars whose abilities in battle, especially when using amplifiers, have classified them as the best warfighters of the local bubble.” Shadowcloud said and smiled when she saw Lieutenant Allerberger move uncomfortably on his chair while glancing at the closed door which was guarded by two Teidars at the other side. “As I said the fact that you didn’t know about Teidars played a great part in convincing me that you are genuine and it helped immensely in defusing the situation when we realized that your marines were aboard our ship.”

“I am… glad to hear that.” Lieutenant Alleberger commented.

"Don’t worry, few are comfortable around Teidars and those are almost always fools." Shadowcloud replied with a smirk before continuing. “Telekinesis can be used on people whose position can be precisely sensed, which means that everyone within sensing range can be telekinetically targeted. If someone wants to use telekinesis on an inanimate object then they have to be able see the object in question and know its precise distance between themselves and it.” Shadowcloud then stood up and stood behind her chair. “I am a telekinetic and I am considered to be among the strongest telekinetics. Now please don’t be alarmed as I am about to demonstrate my abilities.” With that the chair Shadowcloud was sitting just a few moments ago rose up in the air and remained motionless just above the table. The humans seemed awestruck at the sight of the levitating chair with Lieutenant Allerberger being also alarmed to it.

“Many telekinetic adepts can move themselves in the air as if flying.” Shadowcloud said as she moved the chair back to its position and sat on it again. “Telepathy and Telekinesis don’t cause any feedback to us and don’t seem to follow the laws of physics in regards of needing some form of energy in order to move an object. A telekinetic can use their abilities as long as they can concentrate enough to use them. As with telepathy, we don’t know how telekinesis works or what makes a telekinetic stronger than another one. Potent telekinetics can also be trained to cause rapid increase in molecular movement in objects, effectively increasing an object's temperature until it bursts in flames or even melt.” Shadowcloud’s satisfaction from the human expressions was so radiant that Sulfur didn’t even need to sense her. “Do you have any questions?”

* * *

God given lexicon:

The mannal or "pace" is 0.776 meters.
The nanapi is 241.92 hours (10.08 Earth days).


Chapter 8, part 3: http://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/vie ... 427#p19427
Last edited by Guest on Wed Dec 23, 2015 3:06 pm, edited 15 times in total.

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dragoongfa
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by dragoongfa »

Delayed a couple of day due to RL stuff coming in the way. Which reminds me that I cannot offer two entries in one week because frankly my time is still somewhat limited and because I have to also write my original fic story that will have to take priority for the time being. Still the weekly schedule for this story will be kept until it is over or until my summer vacations, whichever comes first :P

Also, forgot to ask God for two words :oops:

PS: 3650 words and it still is not the end of chapter 8, it looks like the 50% mark will be big.

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Grayhome
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by Grayhome »

First off, excellent chapter! Second off, nope.

Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. The Loroi do not get to pull this shit and get away with it without a penalty.

“Do you have any questions?”, asks the Loroi.

"Well yes, I have a question." Responds the human diplomat. "Given that you have just admitted that you have brought a loaded, concealed, biological (assassin's) weapon to the first diplomatic meeting between our two peoples and you have it pointed at the back of our heads at all times, can you please tell me why should I not leave you people to die in the cold vacuum of space?"

No. NO. The Loroi do NOT get to get away with that without a MASSIVE penalty dragoonfa. This is the sort of shit that makes the diplomatic party WALK OUT OF THE ROOM AND JOIN THE OPOSING FACTION. AUTOMATICALLY. The Loroi can NOT just wave this shit away like they did the stabbing of one of their human rescuers.

I'm talking major concessions here, RIGHT NOW. As in the Loroi hand over all data regarding their psi-tech, their psi-warrior castes, and even the psi-warriors themselves for testing. Humanity receives all data regarding psionics and psi-tech that the Loroi possess. Period. End of conversation.

Any human diplomat worth two cents would demand that much at the very least, and if the Loroi balk in the slightest, then the human diplomats calmly explains to the Loroi that humanity can very easily go to the Umiak Hierarchy and get all the relevant information they desire. Information which I am certain the Umiak would be delighted to provide for free. This would of course include live Loroi test subjects which the Umiak would have millions of.

This is a major fuck up on the Loroi's part and they need to understand this kind of shit wont fly. Period. No excuses, explanations or rationalizations accepted. At all. The humans would NOT be forgiving of such a blatant and obvious threat at a time when EVERY LOROI LIFE ON THAT SHIP DEPENDS ENTIRELY UPON HUMANITY'S ASSISTANCE, especially when the humans can walk away at any time and have already forgiven their rescuees for STABBING ONE OF THEM. The Loroi do not get to simply talk their way out of this one, I don't care how well this Mizol is trained or how old she is. The Loroi, as a species, need to understand that this behavior will not be tolerated.

If the Loroi act like this when their lives are entirely dependent upon humanity's goodwill, I can not even imagine what their behavior would be like when their lives are not entirely dependent upon humanity's goodwill.

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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by Argron »

I was going to re-read the whole thing before comenting, because I spotted some tiny mistakes, but I'll do that later. Simply want to say that I look forward to your next piece during the long days without Outsider updates lol, the world Arioch created is fascinating and your story is awesome. Take your time and thanks for writing it at all :D

@Grayhome: by that standard the humans brought a concealed weapon to the negotiations, after all they are strong soldiers which are trained in hand to hand combat, and the other side in the negotiations are built like normal females that have never seen how strong they truly are. He could get close to any of them for whatever excuse and knock down and/or kill her easily. There's a reason a trained person's bare hands are qualified as a lethal weapon by law.
Telekinesis is as part of that diplomat's body as much as the man's muscles, but just like his fists, she kept it "sheated" and not pointed at anyone. If anything, she explained way more than was necessary for a first contact to soften relations as much as possible, but I have no idea of such matters.
Also, humanity is in no position to threaten, and even broken the loroi ship can likely lay waste to the human vessel just with its point defence lasers.

Regarding the wounded human, although they had good intentions they still assaulted a foreign military vessel without receiving permission from its occupants. Not saying humans were wrong since they tried everything in their power , but considering what the Loroi had been through in the war till now, in the previous battle, and the tension they had at that point, preparing for inevitable death one way or another, a stabbing by mistake meant the marines got off easy.

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Grayhome
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by Grayhome »

@Grayhome: by that standard the humans brought a concealed weapon to the negotiations, after all they are strong soldiers which are trained in hand to hand combat, and the other side in the negotiations are built like normal females that have never seen how strong they truly are. He could get close to any of them for whatever excuse and knock down and/or kill her easily. There's a reason a trained person's bare hands are qualified as a lethal weapon by law.
Telekinesis is as part of that diplomat's body as much as the man's muscles, but just like his fists, she kept it "sheated" and not pointed at anyone. If anything, she explained way more than was necessary for a first contact to soften relations as much as possible, but I have no idea of such matters.
That comment is so inane I'm... I'm having trouble formatting a calm and rational reply to it. Again, I reiterate that the Loroi brought a concealed, loaded, lethal weapon into an official diplomatic meeting. I call upon the intelligence and fair minded nature of the forum to examine this fact.
Also, humanity is in no position to threaten, and even broken the loroi ship can likely lay waste to the human vessel just with its point defence lasers.
Please examine what you are writing here. You are saying that the Loroi are capable/justified in murdering the diplomatic envoys who have offered to save their lives. That action is completely insane to any rational thinking person.
Regarding the wounded human, although they had good intentions they still assaulted a foreign military vessel without receiving permission from its occupants. Not saying humans were wrong since they tried everything in their power , but considering what the Loroi had been through in the war till now, in the previous battle, and the tension they had at that point, preparing for inevitable death one way or another, a stabbing by mistake meant the marines got off easy.
... I'm sorry, did you just declare that the Loroi were entirely within their rights to murder the people that are saving their lives? The humans who are, by the very courageous and selfless act of offering to save the Loroi, not only placing their own lives in jeopardy but the lives of every human in existence? That is insane. The Loroi have already been shown almost superhuman levels of understanding and forgiveness by their Human... saviors. I hesitate to use the word, it sounds so cheesy but in this case I believe it fits fairly well.

I have come to expect neigh ridiculous levels of support/defense from this forum on the topic of what basically amounts to crimes against sentient life by the Loroi. But this series of barely competent and poorly thought out... mental gymnastics is by far the most incomprehensible gibberish I have yet read.

The comparison of psychokinetic abilities alone (neigh infinite range, bypass armor, invisible, potentially tons of force etc) to a mans flailing fists is so... completely ridiculous that I can barely believe you made the comparison. I suggest you reread the Outsider Insider section on Loroi Psychokinetic and Telepathic abilities again. If they were even remotely equal in terms of killing power the Delrias would not have lost their war with the Loroi.

A very disappointing response to my comment. Very disappointing indeed. I implore anyone else who wishes to respond to my comments to type up a better thought out riposte, and use spell check please. That was painful to read.

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dragoongfa
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by dragoongfa »

Grayhome wrote:First off, excellent chapter! Second off, nope.

Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. Nope. The Loroi do not get to pull this shit and get away with it without a penalty.

“Do you have any questions?”, asks the Loroi.

"Well yes, I have a question." Responds the human diplomat. "Given that you have just admitted that you have brought a loaded, concealed, biological (assassin's) weapon to the first diplomatic meeting between our two peoples and you have it pointed at the back of our heads at all times, can you please tell me why should I not leave you people to die in the cold vacuum of space?"

No. NO. The Loroi do NOT get to get away with that without a MASSIVE penalty dragoonfa. This is the sort of shit that makes the diplomatic party WALK OUT OF THE ROOM AND JOIN THE OPOSING FACTION. AUTOMATICALLY. The Loroi can NOT just wave this shit away like they did the stabbing of one of their human rescuers.
Now imagine what it's like for all other alien species out there that didn't found out about this 'peacefully'.

The reason this whole demonstration was invented was exactly this, to put their abilities right out in the open early. For the initial shock to be passed as soon as possible while telling the aliens that the Loroi didn't hide anything from them.
I'm talking major concessions here, RIGHT NOW. As in the Loroi hand over all data regarding their psi-tech, their psi-warrior castes, and even the psi-warriors themselves for testing. Humanity receives all data regarding psionics and psi-tech that the Loroi possess. Period. End of conversation.
Loroi: Genocidal and over teched superpower. Humans are not exactly in the position to demand anything and I think that some people have already realized what would happen if humanity ended up with the Umiaks.

The diplomatic advantage the humans have is temporary in this situation. The Loroi ship is stranded but the Loroi Union is still what it is while Shadowcloud may be an influential intelligence officer with somewhat rusty diplomatic skills but she still has to act as an emissary of the Loroi Union and there are hundreds of just as capable Mizols out there to replace her. She knows that she has the backing of the Loroi fleet and she knows that the relations between Humanity and the Loroi will be at first problematic, especially with the most militant Loroi at the Diadem instantly asking for a pre-emptive Tithric like campaign.
Any human diplomat worth two cents would demand that much at the very least, and if the Loroi balk in the slightest, then the human diplomats calmly explains to the Loroi that humanity can very easily go to the Umiak Hierarchy and get all the relevant information they desire. Information which I am certain the Umiak would be delighted to provide for free. This would of course include live Loroi test subjects which the Umiak would have millions of.
Extra incentive for the Loroi to use even more bombs on Earth even if it is the last thing they will do before extinction at the hands of the Umiak. Because apparently the Humans are what gave the Shells a war winning advantage.
This is a major fuck up on the Loroi's part and they need to understand this kind of shit wont fly. Period. No excuses, explanations or rationalizations accepted. At all. The humans would NOT be forgiving of such a blatant and obvious threat at a time when EVERY LOROI LIFE ON THAT SHIP DEPENDS ENTIRELY UPON HUMANITY'S ASSISTANCE, especially when the humans can walk away at any time and have already forgiven their rescuees for STABBING ONE OF THEM. The Loroi do not get to simply talk their way out of this one, I don't care how well this Mizol is trained or how old she is. The Loroi, as a species, need to understand that this behavior will not be tolerated.
Now imagine a similar scenario before US contact, when Japan still had swords and bows and the US had steam engines, cannons and early rifles. A US ship is stranded on a remote japanese island waiting for assistance. Some Japanese Samurai go there to offer assistance to foreign warriors but for some reason the sentries don't pick the japs up until they are on the ship with swords and bows.

The Japanese 'barbarians' would be dead and if the US ship was attacked for this action, Commander Perry would have been ordered to rape and pillage Tokyo and would have been lauded as a revenging hero, who taught those barbarian gooks what happens when you mess with the star spangled banner of the US of A.

Now what if the imaginary USA was at a full scale genocidal war with Russia and Japan was on the way?

In real life the Japanese capitulated to Commander Perry almost unconditionally after some violent gun boat diplomacy. Fortunately for them they didn't have a warlike idiot as a Shogun at the time.
If the Loroi act like this when their lives are entirely dependent upon humanity's goodwill, I can not even imagine what their behavior would be like when their lives are not entirely dependent upon humanity's goodwill.
Ensign second class Alexander Jardin; sole survivor of ECS-154 Bellarmine. AKA: The Outsider.

The Loroi are a superpower. They know it and although they can't read the humans, they know that they know as well.

What the Loroi don't know is if the Humans are pulling a Tithric on them, are they the reason behind the Umiak suddenly gaining the ability to hide from far sense?

PS: Please don't be mean to others.
PS2: Thanks for the heated response, which is exactly what I was aiming for :P
Last edited by Guest on Fri Jun 19, 2015 5:49 am, edited 3 times in total.

Argron
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by Argron »

Grayhome wrote:
@Grayhome: by that standard the humans brought a concealed weapon to the negotiations, after all they are strong soldiers which are trained in hand to hand combat, and the other side in the negotiations are built like normal females that have never seen how strong they truly are. He could get close to any of them for whatever excuse and knock down and/or kill her easily. There's a reason a trained person's bare hands are qualified as a lethal weapon by law.
Telekinesis is as part of that diplomat's body as much as the man's muscles, but just like his fists, she kept it "sheated" and not pointed at anyone. If anything, she explained way more than was necessary for a first contact to soften relations as much as possible, but I have no idea of such matters.
That comment is so inane I'm... I'm having trouble formatting a calm and rational reply to it. Again, I reiterate that the Loroi brought a concealed, loaded, lethal weapon into an official diplomatic meeting. I call upon the intelligence and fair minded nature of the forum to examine this fact.
Also, humanity is in no position to threaten, and even broken the loroi ship can likely lay waste to the human vessel just with its point defence lasers.
Please examine what you are writing here. You are saying that the Loroi are capable/justified in murdering the diplomatic envoys who have offered to save their lives. That action is completely insane to any rational thinking person.
Regarding the wounded human, although they had good intentions they still assaulted a foreign military vessel without receiving permission from its occupants. Not saying humans were wrong since they tried everything in their power , but considering what the Loroi had been through in the war till now, in the previous battle, and the tension they had at that point, preparing for inevitable death one way or another, a stabbing by mistake meant the marines got off easy.
... I'm sorry, did you just declare that the Loroi were entirely within their rights to murder the people that are saving their lives? The humans who are, by the very courageous and selfless act of offering to save the Loroi, not only placing their own lives in jeopardy but the lives of every human in existence? That is insane. The Loroi have already been shown almost superhuman levels of understanding and forgiveness by their Human... saviors. I hesitate to use the word, it sounds so cheesy but in this case I believe it fits fairly well.

I have come to expect neigh ridiculous levels of support/defense from this forum on the topic of what basically amounts to crimes against sentient life by the Loroi. But this series of barely competent and poorly thought out... mental gymnastics is by far the most incomprehensible gibberish I have yet read.

The comparison of psychokinetic abilities alone (neigh infinite range, bypass armor, invisible, potentially tons of force etc) to a mans flailing fists is so... completely ridiculous that I can barely believe you made the comparison. I suggest you reread the Outsider Insider section on Loroi Psychokinetic and Telepathic abilities again. If they were even remotely equal in terms of killing power the Delrias would not have lost their war with the Loroi.

A very disappointing response to my comment. Very disappointing indeed. I implore anyone else who wishes to respond to my comments to type up a better thought out riposte, and use spell check please. That was painful to read.
I suggest you calm down and stop disrespecting other posters because you disagree about the interpretation of a fanfic based on a webcomic; it's a good webcomic and a good fanfic but not life or death. I see you have over 300 posts so I'll assume you are not a troll, but you sure as hell look like one.
Either way, other people are not here for you to vent about whatever else has got you this angry.

I'll answer your points, to call them that rather than obvious attempts at twisting my words.
- Telepathic and telekinetic skills are part of her and she is the designated diplomat on the ship, what can she do but avoid threatening the humans with said powers and go out of her way to explain how they work? the comparison with the human's fists is valid, as much as those are part of the human's body and can be lethal in some situations if there is a will of using them like a weapon. I'm not comparing them because they are as lethal.
- No, I'm saying the humans would be wary of threatening to break off diplomatic contact on behalf of humanity, or to abandon to a sure death a ship full of shipwrecked aliens who are know to mass murder entire species. For all they know they are evil enough to kill them in reprisal, or even worse, show up with a fleet over earth asking to humanity to clarify the captain's words. Fortunately the captain was calmer in that scene that you when you wrote that post.
Also, leaving shipwrecked people to die when you can offer help is, I expect, a crime.
-No, I'm obviously not saying they were justified killing their saviours, I was saying that they had been prepared to become under attack and die, soon, so when some strange beings appeared on their ship, from their point of view they were being attacked, and one of their most inexperienced recruits in a fight or flight instinctive reaction, attacked with only a knife. She could have shot several humans to death instead. No side was at fault, certainly not the humans, circumstances conspired to make it a misunderstanding.

The forum is pretty small but I will refrain to answer to you in the future seeing as nothing good comes from it. Also consider your post reported.


PS: English is not my native language so maybe I made some mistakes, but sure as hell I'm not going to use a spellcheck for the benefit of someone who behaves like that. Go spellcheck your behaviour.

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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by dragoongfa »

Grayhome wrote:
@Grayhome: by that standard the humans brought a concealed weapon to the negotiations, after all they are strong soldiers which are trained in hand to hand combat, and the other side in the negotiations are built like normal females that have never seen how strong they truly are. He could get close to any of them for whatever excuse and knock down and/or kill her easily. There's a reason a trained person's bare hands are qualified as a lethal weapon by law.
Telekinesis is as part of that diplomat's body as much as the man's muscles, but just like his fists, she kept it "sheated" and not pointed at anyone. If anything, she explained way more than was necessary for a first contact to soften relations as much as possible, but I have no idea of such matters.
That comment is so inane I'm... I'm having trouble formatting a calm and rational reply to it. Again, I reiterate that the Loroi brought a concealed, loaded, lethal weapon into an official diplomatic meeting. I call upon the intelligence and fair minded nature of the forum to examine this fact.
The comparison is off on its scale but the fact still is that Shadowcloud and the Teidar can't do anything about their Telepathy other than not using it. They can't exactly cut it off their brains; the only thing they can do is take off their amplifiers and still that wouldn't make much of a difference in combat.
Also, humanity is in no position to threaten, and even broken the loroi ship can likely lay waste to the human vessel just with its point defence lasers.
Please examine what you are writing here. You are saying that the Loroi are capable/justified in murdering the diplomatic envoys who have offered to save their lives. That action is completely insane to any rational thinking person.
Regarding the wounded human, although they had good intentions they still assaulted a foreign military vessel without receiving permission from its occupants. Not saying humans were wrong since they tried everything in their power , but considering what the Loroi had been through in the war till now, in the previous battle, and the tension they had at that point, preparing for inevitable death one way or another, a stabbing by mistake meant the marines got off easy.
... I'm sorry, did you just declare that the Loroi were entirely within their rights to murder the people that are saving their lives? The humans who are, by the very courageous and selfless act of offering to save the Loroi, not only placing their own lives in jeopardy but the lives of every human in existence? That is insane. The Loroi have already been shown almost superhuman levels of understanding and forgiveness by their Human... saviors. I hesitate to use the word, it sounds so cheesy but in this case I believe it fits fairly well.
The Loroi aren't nice but they aren't fools either. Shadowcloud knows the above and knows that her life and the lives of the rest of the crew is at stake.

She also knows that the Umiak suddenly have the ability to mask entire fleets from far sense. She knows that tensions among the crew were high already, with almost everyone believing that they would either be found by the Shells and die in a last act of defiance or that their life support systems would give out when they would run out of juice.

Their only hope was that the Loroi admiralty would move it's arse to send yet an other flotilla to investigate the area but that wouldn't happen until they realize that the mission is a failure, since the second squadron was far away from any far sensing picket squadrons.
I have come to expect neigh ridiculous levels of support/defense from this forum on the topic of what basically amounts to crimes against sentient life by the Loroi. But this series of barely competent and poorly thought out... mental gymnastics is by far the most incomprehensible gibberish I have yet read.

The comparison of psychokinetic abilities alone (neigh infinite range, bypass armor, invisible, potentially tons of force etc) to a mans flailing fists is so... completely ridiculous that I can barely believe you made the comparison. I suggest you reread the Outsider Insider section on Loroi Psychokinetic and Telepathic abilities again. If they were even remotely equal in terms of killing power the Delrias would not have lost their war with the Loroi.

A very disappointing response to my comment. Very disappointing indeed. I implore anyone else who wishes to respond to my comments to type up a better thought out riposte, and use spell check please. That was painful to read.
This is what I meant by mean btw.

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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by Zakharra »

Grayhome wrote:
@Grayhome: by that standard the humans brought a concealed weapon to the negotiations, after all they are strong soldiers which are trained in hand to hand combat, and the other side in the negotiations are built like normal females that have never seen how strong they truly are. He could get close to any of them for whatever excuse and knock down and/or kill her easily. There's a reason a trained person's bare hands are qualified as a lethal weapon by law.
Telekinesis is as part of that diplomat's body as much as the man's muscles, but just like his fists, she kept it "sheated" and not pointed at anyone. If anything, she explained way more than was necessary for a first contact to soften relations as much as possible, but I have no idea of such matters.
That comment is so inane I'm... I'm having trouble formatting a calm and rational reply to it. Again, I reiterate that the Loroi brought a concealed, loaded, lethal weapon into an official diplomatic meeting. I call upon the intelligence and fair minded nature of the forum to examine this fact.
Calm down, please. It's not like the Loroi diplomat is able to remove her telepathic and telekinesis ability. By explaining what she could do and showing them, she was being frank with them. She is what she is, she can't not take those powers with her. As for the other guards, Loroi military law probably requires guards with telekinesis with any Loroi diplomat when in negotiations at all times. Much like the Humans there that are trained in unarmed combat can't forget their skills. Informing the other side of what you are capable of comes across as a smart move, not a dumb one. When in Loroi space, you play by their rules.
Also, humanity is in no position to threaten, and even broken the loroi ship can likely lay waste to the human vessel just with its point defence lasers.
Please examine what you are writing here. You are saying that the Loroi are capable/justified in murdering the diplomatic envoys who have offered to save their lives. That action is completely insane to any rational thinking person.
No. He is saying that the Loroi aren't as much of a threat as you want to make them out to be and that the humans are in a very poor position to be demanding anything. Remember Humanity is there in the first place to make contact and hopefully a treaty with the Loroi. Issuing demands for everything because they do things differently than we do strikes me as a very poor way to start negotiations with a potentially hostile power that can -easily- wipe out all of Humanity with a single strike group. I will remind you of a quote in the Outsider: Insider: Humanity section: 'The universe is not required to be in perfect harmony with human ambition.' Just because we want something doesn't necessarily mean we will get it. In this setting, Humanity is at a distinct disadvantage and we are quickly looking to find an ally that will help protect us. Pissing off that potential ally is a stupid move.
Regarding the wounded human, although they had good intentions they still assaulted a foreign military vessel without receiving permission from its occupants. Not saying humans were wrong since they tried everything in their power , but considering what the Loroi had been through in the war till now, in the previous battle, and the tension they had at that point, preparing for inevitable death one way or another, a stabbing by mistake meant the marines got off easy.
... I'm sorry, did you just declare that the Loroi were entirely within their rights to murder the people that are saving their lives? The humans who are, by the very courageous and selfless act of offering to save the Loroi, not only placing their own lives in jeopardy but the lives of every human in existence? That is insane. The Loroi have already been shown almost superhuman levels of understanding and forgiveness by their Human... saviors. I hesitate to use the word, it sounds so cheesy but in this case I believe it fits fairly well.

I have come to expect neigh ridiculous levels of support/defense from this forum on the topic of what basically amounts to crimes against sentient life by the Loroi. But this series of barely competent and poorly thought out... mental gymnastics is by far the most incomprehensible gibberish I have yet read.

The comparison of psychokinetic abilities alone (neigh infinite range, bypass armor, invisible, potentially tons of force etc) to a mans flailing fists is so... completely ridiculous that I can barely believe you made the comparison. I suggest you reread the Outsider Insider section on Loroi Psychokinetic and Telepathic abilities again. If they were even remotely equal in terms of killing power the Delrias would not have lost their war with the Loroi.

A very disappointing response to my comment. Very disappointing indeed. I implore anyone else who wishes to respond to my comments to type up a better thought out riposte, and use spell check please. That was painful to read.
Again I say; Loroi space, Loroi rules. If the Loroi think humans are a threat to them, they would, as would ANY species fighting a total war with their entire race at stake, remove that threat as fast and hard as possible. If Humanity is to look good to the Loroi, we do not start off by acting offended and demanding stuff to satisfy our 'honor'. The way you are appearing to want humans to act would get them killed PDQ and put Humanity in the 'Need to Kill Now' list. We're trying to avoid being put on that list, thank you very much, so it behooves us to be humble, appreciative and not rock the diplomatic boat right off the bat

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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by Arioch »

Grayhome wrote:That comment is so inane I'm... I'm having trouble formatting a calm and rational reply to it.
Calm down. There is no excuse for personal insults here.

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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by Razor One »

Perhaps it's the medication talking, but I'm having a lot of trouble trying to parse Grayhome's point.

As far as I understand it, his point is:

They brought telekinetics to a diplomatic meeting. Telekinetics = Weapons, therefore, they're in violation of something or other that entitles humanity to massive concessions for reasons.

The problem with his point is twofold as I see it.

The first being that Telekinetics being weapons that should be barred from any conference. I don't see how they are any different from say, a martial artist who can kill with his bare hands. You cannot functionally disarm them in any fashion whatsoever. Would a diplomat or consultant be barred from a conference or embassy meeting because their martial artist training makes their bare hands deadly weapons? Would an alien who had a toxic physiology be barred because they are literally made of poison?

The second flaw is that the Loroi are violating some kind of protocol that entitles humanity to enormous concessions. I'm not seeing how this even works. This is a first contact scenario, the only protocols in place are the one's you bring with you before you can sit down and work out what works for both parties before further and more detailed negotiations can begin. The Loroi, for their part, have more experience in these matters and are following their handbook reasonably well given the circumstances. The humans are in no position to ask for massive concessions. If they have issues with telekinetics being in their presence, that's protocol they establish here and now for later and more productive negotiations. The group of Loroi present cannot accede to such huge concessions since that's far above authority to give, and the humans cannot extract these concessions diplomatically, militarily or otherwise. Such concessions would be entirely dependent on the goodwill of the Loroi, something they may not be willing to give since you've threatened to join their mortal enemies while making enormous demands of them over what amounts to a diplomatic faux pas at worst.

There are also major flaws in threatening to join the Loroi's mortal enemies. It antagonises the Loroi when you're only out for first contact. It weakens your bargaining position by making you look fickle, greedy, and reactionary. It sours future relations if you do side with them, and if you don't, you get to be known as the one who hastened humanity joining what essentially amounts to a slave empire.

No, a good diplomat won't threaten anything. A good diplomat would imply, hypothetically speaking, that under a certain scenario, some actions are being considered over others and allow their opposite number to stress about where you're going to jump. There's no point in making a threat. Threats are empty and worthless. Promises are what matter. The only scenario in which humanity should threaten to join the Umiak is if they've already decided to do so and want to play the Loroi for chumps.
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Grayhome
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by Grayhome »

Reading through the comments, responses all seem to excuse all Loroi behavior. Again. Welp, just goes to show how understanding and open minded people can be when pretty girls are concerned.

*sigh*

I can only imagine how a day at the UN would go if Russia and China were discovered to have developed telepathic/psychokinetic diplomats and were sending them to the crowded UN treaty meetings to determine trade and territorial rights. I'm sure just because they are a "superpower" such an action would just be universally forgiven, and no other nation would want to shift towards the western sphere of influence in response. Oh and if they said "we can't telepathically read humans" that would be taken on faith, what reason would China and Russia have to lie?

The Loroi are aliens about which humanity knows nothing. Nothing. At all. Believing anything the Loroi say on faith, without any evidence to back it up is not only unprofessionally dangerous, it is silly. I can see numerous flaws with the "test" earlier to demonstrate that humanity is immune to Telepathy. That touching thing of a marine is a very, very poor example of a well thought out and controlled test, the alien in question could very easily have been not trying to read the marines mind in the first place so as to continue to lull the human delegation into a sense of false security while they perform telepathic surgery on their brains for all the humans know. Too many variables have been taken on faith for this relationship to continue on such friendly terms. If I was a crewmember of the Terran vessel in this situation I would be seriously examining the notion of whether my commander had been compromised by insidious alien influence at this point, he has been... astoundingly forgiving and understanding thus far in the story.

The humans would be very suspicious of the Loroi responses so far, their rampant paranoia and outright hostility are very much out of place. I would go so far as to say that the Loroi have thus far acted in exactly the wrong manner, 100% of the time, and the human captain should be seriously considering leaving the Loroi to their fate.

Oh, and to everyone who said that the Loroi could just murder the humans and destroy their ship? I would recommend they double check the Insider pages regarding Terran/Loroi laser batteries, Terran mass driver batteries and Terran vessels. As far as I can determine the damaged Loroi vessel is completely at the Human's mercy in this scenario. So the charming comments I have been receiving that the Humans had better help the Loroi or their going to get murdered is not an option here.

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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by dragoongfa »

Grayhome wrote:Reading through the comments, responses all seem to excuse all Loroi behavior. Again. Welp, just goes to show how understanding and open minded people can be when pretty girls are concerned.

*sigh*

I can only imagine how a day at the UN would go if Russia and China were discovered to have developed telepathic/psychokinetic diplomats and were sending them to the crowded UN treaty meetings to determine trade and territorial rights. I'm sure just because they are a "superpower" such an action would just be universally forgiven, and no other nation would want to shift towards the western sphere of influence in response. Oh and if they said "we can't telepathically read humans" that would be taken on faith, what reason would China and Russia have to lie?
The problem is that the Loroi are naturally telepathic and they can't do anything to shut their abilities down. Someone will have to go to extreme lengths in order to avoid contact with them. Like the Historians do with their isolationism and AI ambassadors. The scenario you mention with Russia and China is extremely farfetched and not the same thing for the obvious reason that humans are not natural telepaths.

Diplomatic relations are based on Good faith and actions that promote good faith. In your scenario the Human nations you mention would be in severe breach of good faith. The Loroi can't do anything about their telepathy and their entire diplomatic corps has had to deal with mistrust for as long as they have been in contact with aliens. In their experience they have to showcase their telepathic abilities immediately upon first contact something that they did in this case, 3 to 4 hours have passed since the moment of first contact with the human marines. If this isn't an immediate attempt to be up front and honest with someone on good faith I don't know what is.

With your logic no species should come even close to them due to their telepathy alone which is their true game breaker, not their telekinesis.
The Loroi are aliens about which humanity knows nothing. Nothing. At all. Believing anything the Loroi say on faith, without any evidence to back it up is not only unprofessionally dangerous, it is silly. I can see numerous flaws with the "test" earlier to demonstrate that humanity is immune to Telepathy. That touching thing of a marine is a very, very poor example of a well thought out and controlled test, the alien in question could very easily have been not trying to read the marines mind in the first place so as to continue to lull the human delegation into a sense of false security while they perform telepathic surgery on their brains for all the humans know. Too many variables have been taken on faith for this relationship to continue on such friendly terms. If I was a crewmember of the Terran vessel in this situation I would be seriously examining the notion of whether my commander had been compromised by insidious alien influence at this point, he has been... astoundingly forgiving and understanding thus far in the story.

The humans would be very suspicious of the Loroi responses so far, their rampant paranoia and outright hostility are very much out of place. I would go so far as to say that the Loroi have thus far acted in exactly the wrong manner, 100% of the time, and the human captain should be seriously considering leaving the Loroi to their fate.
All of the above is something that the humans are certainly thinking but they have their orders and they will act accordingly. They have been briefed on what to be wary for if they came across the Loroi for whom they knew nothing. Remember the Captain's response "We are seeing the same thing as you do?" and Lieutenant Allerberger's "joke about females in distress"? They were briefed from their respective superiors about this in order to have those questions and reactions. They have a 'cut all connections with Loroi' protocol but they will only act upon it only with solid evidence that the Loroi are acting on bad faith and are somehow tricking and controlling them with telepathy. There is currently a ship filled with the some of the smartest people of the scout corps looking through everything they have seen so far while questioning their own sanity. The captain's stupid inquiry about what the marine was thinking? His way of venting some stress from himself and the bridge.

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Let's say that for now the first thing the returning marines with go through, especially Gomez and Westwood, will be to go in the ships medical scanner and have their whole bodies scanned, with extra attention to their brain functions, which will be compared to their routine exams which marines go through regularly for reasons that will be covered in a later chapter. If anything is off, beyond the perfectly healed wound, there will be legitimate questions of Loroi honesty.
The Humans are not fools but they have their orders and can only act on evidence that the Loroi are using their telepathy against them. Until such evidence are in front of them they will have to assume that the Loroi are acting on good faith which all diplomatic relationships run on.
Oh, and to everyone who said that the Loroi could just murder the humans and destroy their ship? I would recommend they double check the Insider pages regarding Terran/Loroi laser batteries, Terran mass driver batteries and Terran vessels. As far as I can determine the damaged Loroi vessel is completely at the Human's mercy in this scenario. So the charming comments I have been receiving that the Humans had better help the Loroi or their going to get murdered is not an option here.
This Loroi ship is at the human mercy, without much power and with its warhead launcher inoperable. The fleet that this warship belongs to is part of a vast armada that has committed TWO genocides before. This armada is something that the humans don't want to piss off, especially if their immunity from sensing is true. Humanity wants to be in the good graces of that armada and helping one of their stranded ships is a perfect opportunity for that.

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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by Grayhome »

Dude. Dude. They stabbed a diplomat. Let it go. They're not interested in being "friends". They want slaves or corpses.

Then they brought a loaded.

Concealed.

Psychic Gun.

To a diplomatic meeting.

The Loroi don't have to turn off their telepathy, they just need to keep their psychokinetic troops out of the conference room.

I would also ask, on a personal note that the Loroi restrain themselves from stabbing future human diplomats but I think that might be a hard bargain to make, what with the whole "xenocidal" thing the Loroi apparently have going on, that everyone in the thread seems to be totally fine with and supportive of.

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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by NuclearIceCream »

The only point Grayhome might be able to make is that the Loroi knowingly used telekinetic guards for the meeting and that the diplomat is still visibly armed with an amplifier. To say that no telekinetic can attend a diplomatic meeting just because they were born that way is stupid.

He is correct in that the Loroi shouldn't have used Teidar guards because it is pointless dickwaving in a situation that the currently stranded loroi have no means of truly backing up.

He is correct in that the diplomat should have removed her amp because that would be like a diplomat bringing say a power fist to the meeting. True, it only enhances preexisting abilities that were already lethal. But it still amplifies to a point above and beyond. But perhaps more importantly; it is a VISIBLE[/u][/i] symbol of her being armed.

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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by dragoongfa »

Grayhome wrote:Dude. Dude. They stabbed a diplomat. Let it go. They're not interested in being "friends". They want slaves or corpses.
A Soroin Passet, which is the Loroi equivalent of the last wheel of the carriage, did that while disobeying direct orders from her superior officer (in this case Teidar Sezon Razormist). This happened during an abnormally stressful situation against an unknown and armed alien that she couldn't fully perceive both for the limited lighting and his natural immunity to telepathy.

The one she stubbed had not yet identified himself as a diplomat, he was armed and far more bulkier than she was. Furthermore to be considered a diplomat and be treated as such you must first be recognized as such by an official who has the right to do so. In this case Mizol Torrimor Shadowcloud, if she wasn't present that duty would fall on the captain of Silverspear, Soroin Torret Darkwing who for all intents and purposes was psychologically unfit for command and had to be telepathically bullied so she would consent to medical treatment for her wounds.
Then they brought a loaded.

Concealed.

Psychic Gun.

To a diplomatic meeting.

The Loroi don't have to turn off their telepathy, they just need to keep their psychokinetic troops out of the conference room.
The Teidar are not in the conference room, they are outside guarding the door because frankly the crew is still tense and doesn't fully trust the Mizol to do the right thing. Shadowcloud is a Mizol and she is primarily a combat oriented intelligence specialist; she is the kind of officer who leads the Loroi equivalent of SEAL team six. The Teidar assigned to her as her bodyguards are not an honor guard and are not pushovers; Razormist and Thunderspear have seen combat under her command while Longblade is the new fish there to replace a combat loss.

In a perfect situation she would have let an other Mizol take the reigns, even a novice, while providing advise via telepathy. The only faux pas from her part is her amplifier but she did so intentionally and this will be covered in the next part.
I would also ask, on a personal note that the Loroi restrain themselves from stabbing future human diplomats but I think that might be a hard bargain to make, what with the whole "xenocidal" thing the Loroi apparently have going on, that everyone in the thread seems to be totally fine with and supportive of.
I think that I have covered the xenocidal thing adequately in the story. The humans are terrified of the Loroi, they don't like them and they certainly don't approve of the Mannadi and Tithric genocides but they don't have a choice in the matter at hand but to pursue contact with Loroi because they know that the Loroi WILL DO THE SAME to humanity if humanity allies itself with the Umiak.

Shadowcloud knows how much these genocides hurt the Loroi because she regularly conducts intelligence missions and interrogates aliens. She knows that a lot of Aliens are terrified of the Loroi and knows that if the Loroi do something like that again then even their allies will see the Umiak as the lesser evil.

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Siber
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by Siber »

I'm not a diplomat of any stripe, but I would think that one wants to be careful about taking offense to the meaning of actions diplomats of an entirely alien and unknown culture take. For all the humans know, coming to a diplomatic meeting unarmed could be a sign of disrespect to the Loroi. Considering that these Loroi have gone out of their way to reveal their abilities and armament in a not directly threatening manner, reacting as if they were being malicious in this case only really makes sense if one is already looking for a reason to drive a wedge between humanity and the Loroi. At the very least there should be some calm, rational exploration of intent and context before dropping any ultimatums.
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Razor One
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by Razor One »

Grayhome wrote:Reading through the comments, responses all seem to excuse all Loroi behavior. Again. Welp, just goes to show how understanding and open minded people can be when pretty girls are concerned.
If a giant spider appeared on a US warship in wartime during a battle for survival, the response would be much the same. No human was expecting the race of telepathic xenocidal aliens to have a blind spot to our species, and in light of that cockups like stabbing or shooting at the unidentified intruder are acceptable and understandable.

I'm going to ignore your attempt to paint anyone who disagrees with you as a horny teenager. The only response it merits requires the usage of intransitive verbs.

I can only imagine how a day at the UN would go if Russia and China were discovered to have developed telepathic/psychokinetic diplomats and were sending them to the crowded UN treaty meetings to determine trade and territorial rights. I'm sure just because they are a "superpower" such an action would just be universally forgiven, and no other nation would want to shift towards the western sphere of influence in response. Oh and if they said "we can't telepathically read humans" that would be taken on faith, what reason would China and Russia have to lie?
Your analogy is bad and you should feel bad.

Russia and China have been known entities for centuries, even if the current political makeups are more recent. They have well established diplomatic protocols in place, albeit ones that don't cover telepaths. Bringing telepaths and telekinetics to diplomatic meetings is a complete non sequitur, humanity knows the Loroi are telepathic. They can well ascertain that the Loroi are on the level regarding humans telepathic immunity because the way the Loroi have acted are consistent with that explanation. Otherwise, why stab a guy and then do their damnedest to play nice? Some Machiavellian scheme? And to what end?

Finally, ambassadors and diplomats are spied on all the time. Their offices are bugged, their computers riddled with malware, their transmissions tapped. If there was a way to rifle through their thoughts, you're damn certain any nation on Earth would do it.

The only response China and Russia would get would be some cold shouldering diplomatically until countermeasures are developed and backhanded compliments from the spook community for bringing something so revolutionary to the spying game and then cocking it up like amateurs.

The Loroi are aliens about which humanity knows nothing. Nothing. At all. Believing anything the Loroi say on faith, without any evidence to back it up is not only unprofessionally dangerous, it is silly. I can see numerous flaws with the "test" earlier to demonstrate that humanity is immune to Telepathy. That touching thing of a marine is a very, very poor example of a well thought out and controlled test, the alien in question could very easily have been not trying to read the marines mind in the first place so as to continue to lull the human delegation into a sense of false security while they perform telepathic surgery on their brains for all the humans know. Too many variables have been taken on faith for this relationship to continue on such friendly terms. If I was a crewmember of the Terran vessel in this situation I would be seriously examining the notion of whether my commander had been compromised by insidious alien influence at this point, he has been... astoundingly forgiving and understanding thus far in the story.
Humanity is not completely ignorant. Only mostly so.

They know the Loroi are telepathic. The Orgus told them. They also know the Loroi are xenocidal. The Orgus also told them that. They know the Loroi language, also via the Orgus. They've also seen firsthand the results of what happens when you piss the Loroi off. If you were a crewmember on the Matyavev, you're not thinking, "My CO is being way too nice to these aliens", you're thinking "If we cock this up this'll be Sol five years from now". Forgiveness and understanding is a necessary diplomatic tool to avoid being wiped out by powerful xenocidal aliens.

As for the telepathic test, **shrug**, trust but verify, same as its always been. There's no reasonable explanation why the Loroi would try to fake the humans out like that, especially after they reacted consistently with that explanation previously. Machiavellian scheming is all well and good but they need a reason to do it. Humans are an unknown, but there lies the conundrum. If the Loroi could read the humans, scheming would be unnecessary, and if they can't, then their behaviour does not follow.

The humans would be very suspicious of the Loroi responses so far, their rampant paranoia and outright hostility are very much out of place. I would go so far as to say that the Loroi have thus far acted in exactly the wrong manner, 100% of the time, and the human captain should be seriously considering leaving the Loroi to their fate.
The Loroi can't read humans. They made this clear earlier in the story. Even if you don't trust them at their word, their actions and responses back it up. Humans are to the Loroi as Xenomorphs are to humans. If one popped out of a vent one day and said "Cheerio dear chap it seems you're in a spot of bother!" I think the response would be largely the same, possibly with more shooting than stabbing though.

For something a bit more relatable though, imagine you're stuck on the side of the road and see a group of youths with balaclavas on their heads approaching you. Your first instinct is to try and call the cops. Day, night, right side of town or wrong. Because the balaclava hides the face and identity of the person you're dealing with, you know that the only thing they can be up to is no good and the likely response to seeing someone in need of help is to prey on them. Imagine your surprise when the balaclava troop offer you full roadside assistance. You'd be waiting for the other shoe to drop the entire time. That's what the Loroi are going through. They're acting entirely consistently with the facts at hand. Humans being immune to their telepathy is the equivalent of hiding your face and identity when dealing with others. Even if you are benevolent, especially if you're benevolent, you are suspect. Always.

Oh, and to everyone who said that the Loroi could just murder the humans and destroy their ship? I would recommend they double check the Insider pages regarding Terran/Loroi laser batteries, Terran mass driver batteries and Terran vessels. As far as I can determine the damaged Loroi vessel is completely at the Human's mercy in this scenario. So the charming comments I have been receiving that the Humans had better help the Loroi or their going to get murdered is not an option here.
Ah yes, because the humans winning one single engagement against a helpless foe will have no negative consequences whatsoever. Nobody was talking about the immediate situation, they were talking about the consequences of screwing up first contact. See Babylon 5's Earth-Minbari war for a good example of what happens when you fight an enemy that outclasses you on every level.
Grayhome wrote:Dude. Dude. They stabbed a diplomat. Let it go. They're not interested in being "friends". They want slaves or corpses.

Then they brought a loaded.

Concealed.

Psychic Gun.

To a diplomatic meeting.
It's not a diplomatic meeting. It's a first contact. This is where you establish protocols necessary for future diplomatic contact. The person they stabbed was a marine and not a diplomat. He did not have diplomatic immunity. You need to establish diplomatic immunity and it must be granted. He was an unidentified and unknown intruder on their vessel.

The only person qualified to make sure this entire meeting doesn't go completely tits up also qualifies as your oft vaunted psychic weapon. You can't physically separate the person from the weapon. They're acting openly and honestly, with a necessary demonstration to show the humans what's what.

If ever there was a situation where a person could not be separated from a weapon and that person was the only one qualified to handle the situation, then both sides would knuckle under and accept it even if they wouldn't like it. First contact is where you setup the protocols for future diplomatic contact. If the humans have their knickers in a twist about telekinetics, then all they have to do is stipulate that telekinetics are barred from the conference room and ask them to provide a negotiator who is both not telekinetic and qualified to handle negotiations, something the Loroi could easily provide at a later date but not in the situation at hand.

I would also ask, on a personal note that the Loroi restrain themselves from stabbing future human diplomats but I think that might be a hard bargain to make, what with the whole "xenocidal" thing the Loroi apparently have going on, that everyone in the thread seems to be totally fine with and supportive of.
For someone who keeps stressing about how undiplomatic the Loroi are acting, the behaviour you advocate is just as bad. The humans are here to say hello, introduce themselves, get some protocols up, and direct the Loroi to the real diplomats. They're not in a position to make the big decisions. What they are in a position to is leverage the situation so that they have additional bargaining chips for the diplomats to work with. It's all about having options. Humans need to choose a side in the war. They want to pick a winner. You don't risk pissing anyone off until you can make that determination, because you don't want your name associated with the long line of idiots on the road to ruin.

Oh, and on a personal note, do try making your points without characterising your opponents as being horny teenage boys or supportive of genocide. Your consistent ad hominem damages any sympathy to your position, actively turns people against you, and is destroying your credibility. If you can't disagree with someone without casting aspersions against them, I'm going to ask that you let matter drop as a favour to yourself, lest you get reported again.
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Grayhome
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Looking forward to the Mirror

Post by Grayhome »

So just reading through the responses, dragonfa it's your story, your rules but the human commander has the forgiveness and understanding of a superhuman. Give that man a medal.

Razor One! You are... kind of all over the place, nitpicking here and there, being intellectually dishonest in places from time to time, apparently not reading posts I was responding to, so I am just going to make a point or two from your more memorable comments.
Oh, and on a personal note, do try making your points without characterising your opponents as being horny teenage boys or supportive of genocide. Your consistent ad hominem damages any sympathy to your position, actively turns people against you, and is destroying your credibility. If you can't disagree with someone without casting aspersions against them, I'm going to ask that you let matter drop as a favour to yourself, lest you get reported again.
*Sigh*

You know as well as I that a good deal of this forum is dedicated to making sexual comments on the Loroi and a good chunk of art on the Insider (fanart and otherwise) is highly sexual in nature, many Loroi women being depicted in their underwear. Your refusal to acknowledge that, and your implication of the contrary is disappointing. Forum commentators have outright said that the Loroi look cute, and that they feel a strong urge to help them because they look cute.

And as for my "characterizations" of those supporting the Loroi equaling the support of xenocide, that is the entire preface of the story RazorOne. Whoever humanity joins will be, by definition, receiving the entirety of the human species support for their faction's planned xenocide of the opposing faction. That's what makes the story so interesting, both factions are playing for keeps.

If you think reporting me for making those points is unfair or rude than please by all means, go ahead. Given that a large number of comments I read on this forum concern themselves with Loroi sexuality and attractiveness; as well as the very clear honesty of both the Loroi and the Umiak that they are willing to do whatever it takes to win this conflict, including xenocide, I think my points are valid and your threat is out of place.

See Babylon 5's Earth-Minbari war for a good example of what happens when you fight an enemy that outclasses you on every level.
And I will see your fictional conflict and raise you the Vietnam and the American Revolutionary War. RazorOne I know it's a fictional sci-fi fan fiction but you will do your points more credit by using example from real life and not from fiction. There are conflicts throughout human history that went well for the higher TL faction, and conflicts in which the opposite is also true.



A sarcastic remark I made:
I would also ask, on a personal note that the Loroi restrain themselves from stabbing future human diplomats
RazorOne's response:
For someone who keeps stressing about how undiplomatic the Loroi are acting, the behaviour you advocate is just as bad.
I'm going to assume that your response was to another section of my comment, I think. I don't really understand it. I might be misreading it maybe. Please reread the comments I am responding to before reading mine.

It's not a diplomatic meeting. It's a first contact. This is where you establish protocols necessary for future diplomatic contact. The person they stabbed was a marine and not a diplomat. He did not have diplomatic immunity. You need to establish diplomatic immunity and it must be granted. He was an unidentified and unknown intruder on their vessel.

The only person qualified to make sure this entire meeting doesn't go completely tits up also qualifies as your oft vaunted psychic weapon. You can't physically separate the person from the weapon. They're acting openly and honestly, with a necessary demonstration to show the humans what's what.

If ever there was a situation where a person could not be separated from a weapon and that person was the only one qualified to handle the situation, then both sides would knuckle under and accept it even if they wouldn't like it. First contact is where you setup the protocols for future diplomatic contact. If the humans have their knickers in a twist about telekinetics, then all they have to do is stipulate that telekinetics are barred from the conference room and ask them to provide a negotiator who is both not telekinetic and qualified to handle negotiations, something the Loroi could easily provide at a later date but not in the situation at hand.
Hmm, ok. You make a fair point, I will agree with that.

As for NuclearIceCream's response:
The only point Grayhome might be able to make is that the Loroi knowingly used telekinetic guards for the meeting and that the diplomat is still visibly armed with an amplifier. To say that no telekinetic can attend a diplomatic meeting just because they were born that way is stupid.

He is correct in that the Loroi shouldn't have used Teidar guards because it is pointless dickwaving in a situation that the currently stranded loroi have no means of truly backing up.

He is correct in that the diplomat should have removed her amp because that would be like a diplomat bringing say a power fist to the meeting. True, it only enhances preexisting abilities that were already lethal. But it still amplifies to a point above and beyond. But perhaps more importantly; it is a VISIBLE[/u][/i] symbol of her being armed.
I... am confused. You seem to agree and disagree with me on the same point. You seem to say that psychokinetics is invisible (which is bad) but that the psi-amps the Loroi are wearing are visible (so that makes it ok... somehow) but it's still needless dickwaving? So by that line of logic bringing a loaded gun to a diplomatic meeting would be ok because everyone can see the gun, it's just that the bullets (once fired) move faster than the human eye can follow so that makes it bad again-and you have lost me I do not understand your point.

Also please keep in mind that Psychokinetic abilities can go through walls with zero resistance.

Going to supper, I will respond to the rest later, if I have time and do not forget.
Last edited by Grayhome on Sat Jun 20, 2015 12:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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