[Fan Fiction] Notes and discussion for "A sword that wields itself"

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Bamax
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Notes and discussion for "A sword that wields itself"

Post by Bamax »

Cthulhu wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:24 pm
inxsi wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:15 pm
I actually lol'd at them running into Stillstorm, though I should have expected that. Interesting that this is an issue for Emberwing - I'll have to refresh my memory on that bit.
If not for the Bellarmine, Stillstorm would've withdrawn in order to resupply a bit earlier, thus missing the Stray. Here, they were ordered to investigate the disappearance of the 25th.
Emberwing never met Stillstorm, she is merely acting upon information from the rumor mill.
inxsi wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:15 pm
Good that Emberwing finally picked up that Zarjow is basically a mizol, at least in his mindset. Though I'm sure she'll start thinking of most humans as such until the lotai is dealt with.
She realized that he is something like a Mizol far earlier, but it's still hard to see one in a male.
inxsi wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:15 pm
I have to think about things a bit more, though I'm wondering if in this story Stillstorm will think the Humans are a trick of the Historians (especially when she learns of the reactionless drives).
She can see that the ship is reactionless, since it does not have any outlets. As to the Historian matter, let's see?
inxsi wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:15 pm
Did humanity take the same route as in the webcomic?
They went on a slight detour and skimmed on the edge of the Hierarchy territory.
inxsi wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:15 pm
Minor nitpicks:
SpoilerShow
The part about being somewhat unstable after that tradegy should be omitted, -> tragedy
The Captain strocked his beard, -> stroked
Thanks, I'll correct it!
Bamax wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:16 pm
Characters were true to form... and it is really obvious what Stilly was occupied with while the Charon waited for a response.
Yes, with an intense staring contest. I think that she lost...
Bamax wrote:
Thu Oct 14, 2021 8:16 pm
Why else send Stilly of all people to search for a group that was wiped out that Farseers were aware of?
Well, she returned just in time for a resupply run and since her group was too under-strength to return to raider duty, she was sent on this mission.

The real question is, did Stillstorm even ask for all of this, the glory, fame and political involvement? It is written from the point of view of Emberwing, who just compiled various rumors about her into an image. But what about the real deal? I'll try to explore that in the next chapters.


Very true... even legends are only human.

Or perhaps it is just as Worf said:

Commander Worf: Kahless said "Great men do not seek power. They have power thrust upon them."

Funny thing is, sometimes those in power do not know what to do with it, and the opportunity to use it is always short-lived before it is passed on to another anyway.

In the case of Stillstorm... one thing I am certain of is that she is using her power to stay alive. Since you do not win all those battles without avoiding or retreating from the ones you would definitely lose.

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Snoofman
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Notes and discussion for "A sword that wields itself"

Post by Snoofman »

Wow! official first contact went surprisingly well. And so, Stillstorm and Alex meet again at last... but on a somewhat more different footing. Dhalid has a strange way of bringing folks together... even if they don't share the same bio-chemistry.

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Cthulhu
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Notes and discussion for "A sword that wields itself"

Post by Cthulhu »

Snoofman wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 1:55 pm
Wow! official first contact went surprisingly well. And so, Stillstorm and Alex meet again at last... but on a somewhat more different footing. Dhalid has a strange way of bringing folks together... even if they don't share the same bio-chemistry.
Well, even though Alex is now a proper Captain, I still doubt whether Stillstorm will recognize him as a warrior. But this is dalid too, I guess...

inxsi
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Notes and discussion for "A sword that wields itself"

Post by inxsi »

Cthulhu wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:16 pm
Well, even though Alex is now a proper Captain, I still doubt whether Stillstorm will recognize him as a warrior. But this is dalid too, I guess...
Maybe once he does something suitably warrior-like... though I suppose it raises the question of whether Stillstorm considers any non-Loroi warriors. Might be an interesting idea for me to think about.

Very nice (though undoubtedly sanitized) history - I suppose it is to be expected of something so recent for the characters.

The Loroi will probably be far more disturbed by the humans having to vote the telepaths into office instead of the other parts of it. I think the Loroi are not even going to consider how telepathy could be an issue in human society (other than causing them issues). And now humans have their own nobility :)

I wonder at the secrecy of trying to develop a better procedure - wouldn't there be concerns that other groups would use the less safe procedure in the meantime? Did they tell people that they were trying to find a better method and just not disclosing their methods?

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Cthulhu
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Notes and discussion for "A sword that wields itself"

Post by Cthulhu »

inxsi wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:53 pm
Maybe once he does something suitably warrior-like... though I suppose it raises the question of whether Stillstorm considers any non-Loroi warriors. Might be an interesting idea for me to think about.
He is, what, "pink alien menfolk"? Can you imagine something even less warrior-like? :lol:
inxsi wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:53 pm
Very nice (though undoubtedly sanitized) history - I suppose it is to be expected of something so recent for the characters.
The propaganda lecture was created for Loroi consumption, after all.
inxsi wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:53 pm
The Loroi will probably be far more disturbed by the humans having to vote the telepaths into office instead of the other parts of it. I think the Loroi are not even going to consider how telepathy could be an issue in human society (other than causing them issues). And now humans have their own nobility :)
An empire without nobility? That won't work. The Loroi have something quite similar, namely the warrior class, so that's not really a problem. Instead, it'll be something else that they will have issues with.
inxsi wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:53 pm
I wonder at the secrecy of trying to develop a better procedure - wouldn't there be concerns that other groups would use the less safe procedure in the meantime? Did they tell people that they were trying to find a better method and just not disclosing their methods?
Once the breakthrough spread, obtaining the data wasn't such a problem anymore. Also, the telepaths quickly developed something like an esprit de corps and shared the newest psi-tech among themselves.

inxsi
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Notes and discussion for "A sword that wields itself"

Post by inxsi »

Cthulhu wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:15 pm
He is, what, "pink alien menfolk"? Can you imagine something even less warrior-like? :lol:
Presumably the Loroi view Loroi males as less warrior-like. I'd have to look - if I recall correctly, the Neridi have taken a lot of casualties (as most of the fighting is in their space) but I do not remember if the Neridi have been involved in the fighting beyond the occasional relay station that they manned.
Cthulhu wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:15 pm
The propaganda lecture was created for Loroi consumption, after all.
I picked up on that - though I suppose I should ponder how much any of the recent information can be trusted. Especially given their questioning to Emberwing of the feasibility of lying to the Loroi about Human society and their admission of lying to the Umiak.
Cthulhu wrote:
Tue Oct 19, 2021 10:15 pm
An empire without nobility? That won't work. The Loroi have something quite similar, namely the warrior class, so that's not really a problem. Instead, it'll be something else that they will have issues with.
Interesting. I don't view the warrior class as the nobility of the Loroi. I probably have a distorted view of historic nobility that drops out all of the minor titles, as I tend to reserve that to the upper echelons of Torrai (or those with particular lineages - I would think Ashrain would qualify due to her relation to the Azerein while Moonglow would not - Stillstorm would qualify in my mind). In any event, I am sure they will not have an issue with it (and are happier for Humanity to have such a sensible arrangement as opposed to some messy democracy).

Bamax
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Notes and discussion for "A sword that wields itself"

Post by Bamax »

Read the latest chap... reminded me of the famous saying, "Those who live by the sword will die by the sword."

Naturally readers' own personal backgrounds will influence their perception of characters.

My first instinct is to run and only attack if absolutely necessary to protect myself.

Since Emberwing's reaction to flight or fight is fight, for me she came off... rather like a jerk.

In part because killing is not something I have ever done to anything larger than an insect, and killing others is just... not something I have any interest in.

Yet for Emberwing this comes naturally... how many Loroi people or Umiak has she killed before to so easily kill face to face without any hesitation?

Perhaps your version of the Loroi you are really trying to raise the attention on them being as ruthless as humans suspect?

Or perhaps finding out WHAT a Loroi would do in various situations was the whole point of what seems human tampering with Emberwing's dreams.

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Cthulhu
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Notes and discussion for "A sword that wields itself"

Post by Cthulhu »

Bamax wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:46 pm
Read the latest chap... reminded me of the famous saying, "Those who live by the sword will die by the sword."

Naturally readers' own personal backgrounds will influence their perception of characters.

My first instinct is to run and only attack if absolutely necessary to protect myself.

Since Emberwing's reaction to flight or fight is fight, for me she came off... rather like a jerk.

In part because killing is not something I have ever done to anything larger than an insect, and killing others is just... not something I have any interest in.

Yet for Emberwing this comes naturally... how many Loroi people or Umiak has she killed before to so easily kill face to face without any hesitation?

Perhaps your version of the Loroi you are really trying to raise the attention on them being as ruthless as humans suspect?

Or perhaps finding out WHAT a Loroi would do in various situations was the whole point of what seems human tampering with Emberwing's dreams.
Well, the Loroi are not necessarily more ruthless, just different, and the prolonged war forces them to be constantly on edge (pun intended). Emberwing was also raised in a very traditional clan that places great importance upon the old martial values and ancient legends.
Remember that all Loroi crew members are warriors not just for show, they have undergone rigorous training, a tough diral phase and harsh rites of passage. Imagine being sent to the woods with a bunch of other adolescents to survive on your own? The word diral can be translated with "gang", after all.

You also seem to forget that this was a dream, or even a nightmare. Are you always behaving rationally when facing some particularly outlandish or horrific dream scenarios? Or do you even have full control over your actions? Sometimes, you adapt to the most ridiculous setting and accept it as a given, only to wonder about its utter craziness after you wake up.
Anyway, there may be an additional problem with this dream that Emberwing shall realize in the next chapter.
SpoilerShow
Was that dream entirely her own?

Bamax
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Notes and discussion for "A sword that wields itself"

Post by Bamax »

Cthulhu wrote:
Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:19 am
Bamax wrote:
Fri Oct 22, 2021 11:46 pm
Read the latest chap... reminded me of the famous saying, "Those who live by the sword will die by the sword."

Naturally readers' own personal backgrounds will influence their perception of characters.

My first instinct is to run and only attack if absolutely necessary to protect myself.

Since Emberwing's reaction to flight or fight is fight, for me she came off... rather like a jerk.

In part because killing is not something I have ever done to anything larger than an insect, and killing others is just... not something I have any interest in.

Yet for Emberwing this comes naturally... how many Loroi people or Umiak has she killed before to so easily kill face to face without any hesitation?

Perhaps your version of the Loroi you are really trying to raise the attention on them being as ruthless as humans suspect?

Or perhaps finding out WHAT a Loroi would do in various situations was the whole point of what seems human tampering with Emberwing's dreams.
Well, the Loroi are not necessarily more ruthless, just different, and the prolonged war forces them to be constantly on edge (pun intended). Emberwing was also raised in a very traditional clan that places great importance upon the old martial values and ancient legends.
Remember that all Loroi crew members are warriors not just for show, they have undergone rigorous training, a tough diral phase and harsh rites of passage. Imagine being sent to the woods with a bunch of other adolescents to survive on your own? The word diral can be translated with "gang", after all.

You also seem to forget that this was a dream, or even a nightmare. Are you always behaving rationally when facing some particularly outlandish or horrific dream scenarios? Or do you even have full control over your actions? Sometimes, you adapt to the most ridiculous setting and accept it as a given, only to wonder about its utter craziness after you wake up.
Anyway, there may be an additional problem with this dream that Emberwing shall realize in the next chapter.
SpoilerShow
Was that dream entirely her own?

Well... closest I have come to killing was in a dream. A snow white colored winged humanoid with white hair and totally red eyes was choking me.

I immediately took him for a demonic entity. So my immediate response was to choke him back, and though he never let go, he actually began to slowly fade away as I choked him hard with all my strength till he disappeared.

Was not able to reflect or celebrate since the dream ended right after LOL.

Notably that was the ONLY dream where any opponent ever caused me any physical discomfort. The rest never could get their hands on me since in dreams I am always stronger or faster than my assailants, amd when I am not I usually end the dream before I get hurt.

Bamax
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Notes and discussion for "A sword that wields itself"

Post by Bamax »

Also... how common is it for Loroi to kill Loroi?

Like with humans the homicide rate dropped somewhat due to covid-19.

But do the Loroi realky have a Loroi on Loroi homicide rate that rivals humanity?

Which also means or implies lots of homicides?


The way I see it, it's a story discrepancy... since telepathy makes escaping punishment nigh impossible. Loroi crime is virtually futile.

If anything I would expect a high sucide rate to match the homicide rate to escape punishment for homicides among the Loroi.

The more likely scenario is that telepathic attacks are more common than physical ones, since if you get caught the punishment should be less than that for homicide.

Plus I imagine ganging up with telepathic attacks should be very effective against physically stronger but smaller numbered foes.

Imagine an ALL mizol army going up against a larger number of average Loroi.

The Mizol could do enough damage to win.

If anything, given the 100 meter telepathic radius, ranged weapons should be preferred over all else among the Loroi.

Cannot be changed in canon for obvious reasons. But at least with ranged weapons your opponent won't know you are trying to kill them until they either are struck or you miss.

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Cthulhu
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Notes and discussion for "A sword that wields itself"

Post by Cthulhu »

Perhaps it was not clear enough in the new chapter, but those dreams did confuse Emberwing, since her dream-self was acting out of character. The latest divergence was overshadowed by the nightmare-like development, but she'll try to analyze it in the next chapter. The point is that prior to the sword "revelation", she simply assumed that those strange dreams were caused by plain old PTSD or something similar and were best discussed with a psi-psychologist after her return.

I think that for the Loroi, homicide rates should be very low, especially since even the very intention to do so can be felt by others via telepathy.

Don't worry, Emberwing is not a jerk, and she has not killed any Loroi nor felt the inclination to do so. She did not even kill any Umiak directly, at least beyond preparing a fire solution or issuing orders.
Possible plot twistShow
Was the ease with which she slaughtered those wannabe-muggers also entirely her own?

Bamax
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Notes and discussion for "A sword that wields itself"

Post by Bamax »

Cthulhu wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:07 am
Perhaps it was not clear enough in the new chapter, but those dreams did confuse Emberwing, since her dream-self was acting out of character. The latest divergence was overshadowed by the nightmare-like development, but she'll try to analyze it in the next chapter. The point is that prior to the sword "revelation", she simply assumed that those strange dreams were caused by plain old PTSD or something similar and were best discussed with a psi-psychologist after her return.

I think that for the Loroi, homicide rates should be very low, especially since even the very intention to do so can be felt by others via telepathy.

Don't worry, Emberwing is not a jerk, and she has not killed any Loroi nor felt the inclination to do so. She did not even kill any Umiak directly, at least beyond preparing a fire solution or issuing orders.
Possible plot twistShow
Was the ease with which she slaughtered those wannabe-muggers also entirely her own?
No need to worry about me worrying... it's fiction. If Emberwing was a jerk I could be OK with it, so long the rest of the story showed her there is a price to pay for that.

I have read about jerk characters before, for example Tyr from the show Andromda. His actor wrote an online work called Ancestor's breath which is like Tyr's personal diary.

In it, I realized that despite the fact that Tyr can be nice in occasion and even herioc, ultimately his selfishness is so high it puts him solidly into a villain.

Since he says in one of his last entries in so many words that he cannot abide by his captain's nobility and will betray him.

Tyr summed up? Selfish to a fault and in it to win it for himself.

He was so objectional I actually grew sick of learning about his vaunted views on matters.

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Cthulhu
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Notes and discussion for "A sword that wields itself"

Post by Cthulhu »

I watched two seasons of this show until I grew sick of its cringe-overload. The premise of an ancient, noble hero coming back to fix things and to face the now ruined remains of the dream that he fought for was interesting. Sadly, the execution was far too lackluster.

This Tyr character was somewhat poorly written, and his "confession" diary seemed to be a roundabout way to plug various plot holes. Since this was way too obvious, it failed, too. I'm not even sure what his role was supposed to be? Advocatus Diaboli, perhaps, questioning the Captain's lofty ideals? Sounds good, but they made him into a jerk instead.

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Snoofman
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Notes and discussion for "A sword that wields itself"

Post by Snoofman »

But it seems more like Emberwing might be receiving dreams from telepathic humans mingling with her own. Hence why she had an apparent premonition of the sword. Perhaps the loroi male she killed in the dream reflects her personal regard for humanity. Perhaps Emberwing is starting to feel (even if she does not acknowledge it yet) that to harm a human unworthy of Loroi's hostility would be no less than murdering a loroi.

inxsi
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Notes and discussion for "A sword that wields itself"

Post by inxsi »

So Emberwing is concerned about how rapidly humans improve their technology? I suppose that is reasonable.

I'll admit to not seeing her concern on whether or not the political systems are compatible - not for negotiation but for integrating them into the Union (which will not happen due to Human ambition and desire for self-determination). To me, it seems like their complaint is that Humans are used to having their own government that rules them - but wouldn't that be the case for all of the species that joined the Union?

Also a bit surprised that she wanted to take the dress made by Ellen, though I admittedly don't have much of a sense of Loroi fashion.

As for symbolism - the Navy still has symbols of rank? Even though they are less ostentatious than the Loroi armor (which is also practical).

The thought of a Human dueling with Emberwing was pretty good :)

Man, the dream gets really dark. I do wonder how much hostility the loroi showed to Emberwing - I imagine that sensed hostility could be grounds for self-defense in loroi society (as evidence of conflict being about to break out). I would have thought the other loroi would have been a bit more questioning on what she was doing there. Also - I'm not sure of the best way to narrate the fight if you wanted the revelation that one was male to come to the reader at the same time it came to Emberwing (when she examines the bodies) - I would say replace "he" with "the attacker" or "the figure".

We get some confirmation that the dreams are something more than they appear. I assume the humans notice her reacting to the sword, I wonder what they will make of it.

Bamax
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Notes and discussion for "A sword that wields itself"

Post by Bamax »

Cthulhu wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:14 pm
I watched two seasons of this show until I grew sick of its cringe-overload. The premise of an ancient, noble hero coming back to fix things and to face the now ruined remains of the dream that he fought for was interesting. Sadly, the execution was far too lackluster.

This Tyr character was somewhat poorly written, and his "confession" diary seemed to be a roundabout way to plug various plot holes. Since this was way too obvious, it failed, too. I'm not even sure what his role was supposed to be? Advocatus Diaboli, perhaps, questioning the Captain's lofty ideals? Sounds good, but they made him into a jerk instead.

Tyr had both a repressed human side and a more obvious predatory nietzchean side.

He admired Dylan for his heroics, but found Dylsn's ultimate goal of restoring what was destroyed endlessly absurd to the point of amusement.

Say what you will about Tyr, but he had an eloquence about him that was unrivaled in the the show.

Tyr's actor evidently understood his character well, since in Tyr's journal he admits he wishes Dylan WERE Nietzchean, and something Tyr said on the show on the episode he finally left to strike out on his own echoes it.

He told Dylan, faced with a massive fleet of conflicting factions, all hostile to Andromeda, that Dylan should just Nova bomb them.

Dylan of course later showred he could not due to his ethics, and we all know how Nietzcheans view ethics... they are fine up until they impede your goal. There is no wrong way to win for a Nietzchean.

Right after making the suggestion to bomb the hostile fleet, which included his hated Nietzchean enemies as well, Tyr made a very telling comment to Dylan about the choice he had just offered him, "It would be a very Nietzchean choice."


Tyr wanted Dylan to be more... like a Nieztchean, and Dylan wanted Tyr to repress his Nietzchean side for the restoration of something Tyr thought was absurd anyway.

If Tyr and Dylan's relationship proved anything it's this... people with views on ethics that vary from our own cannot forever stay our friends.

Eventually we surrender and become what they are or they surrender and become what we are.

Relationships are dynamic, never static.

I truly believe that if Dylan were willing to act in a more... less ethically bound way... Tyr as a character would have been more than willing to stick around.

Since Tyr respected Dylan, and that is something coming from a Nietzchean who won't hesitate to kill any who impede him

Tyr thought Dylan could be useful, and he was, for a time anyway.

Tyr's thoughts on Dylan are best described in his journal, "Whether there was time or not, I did not hesitate in the motion of life to walk and talk with this lovely and glorious idiot."

In Tyr's own words, Dylan could achieve so much more if were... more like a Nietzchean.

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Cthulhu
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Notes and discussion for "A sword that wields itself"

Post by Cthulhu »

Snoofman wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:23 pm
But it seems more like Emberwing might be receiving dreams from telepathic humans mingling with her own. Hence why she had an apparent premonition of the sword.
Ah, you got me here. You see, Cyber-Todd released Skyrim for the 5th-gen VR console recently, and most of the crew played it excessively. Maybe up to a point where it continued into their dreams and spilled over to Emberwing. :o
inxsi wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:07 pm
So Emberwing is concerned about how rapidly humans improve their technology? I suppose that is reasonable.
The Humans have already out-teched the Union in a fraction of the time, or at least that's how it looks like to Emberwing. The Loroi still struggle with plasma weaponry and don't even understand how reactionless drives work. Yet, some newcomer "empire" that's barely a hundred years old has it all and even more.
This speed can be seen in the comic's timeline, even though it is not that apparent due to a lower tech level. But here, the humans had more time...
inxsi wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:07 pm
I'll admit to not seeing her concern on whether or not the political systems are compatible - not for negotiation but for integrating them into the Union (which will not happen due to Human ambition and desire for self-determination). To me, it seems like their complaint is that Humans are used to having their own government that rules them - but wouldn't that be the case for all of the species that joined the Union?
All other Union members are mostly demilitarized, and their populations are regarded as civilians under Loroi law. However, if the Humans have something that's comparable to a warrior ruling class, they'll never agree to demote themselves, thus dismantling their Empire. Or, that's how a typical Loroi would see it, since she compares it to the Loroi social structures. The similarity between the species is certainly great enough to trigger such comparisons, maybe even on a subconscious level.
inxsi wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:07 pm
Man, the dream gets really dark. I do wonder how much hostility the loroi showed to Emberwing - I imagine that sensed hostility could be grounds for self-defense in loroi society (as evidence of conflict being about to break out). I would have thought the other loroi would have been a bit more questioning on what she was doing there. Also - I'm not sure of the best way to narrate the fight if you wanted the revelation that one was male to come to the reader at the same time it came to Emberwing (when she examines the bodies) - I would say replace "he" with "the attacker" or "the figure".
The dream is supposed to be dark, although Loroi society is normally not that vicious at all. This dream had its own set of rules that her dream-self abided by, but at first, Emberwing did not even realize this. She thought that it was caused by anxiety about the outcome of the war, but then, she got distracted by the sudden attack and the death of a male. Once she woke up, she thought that the weird dream was caused by PTSD, only to realize that there's more to it upon seeing the sword.

Thanks for the advice, I'll have to think about rewriting that part a bit.
inxsi wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:07 pm
As for symbolism - the Navy still has symbols of rank? Even though they are less ostentatious than the Loroi armor (which is also practical).
Any Imperial military needs fancy uniforms! That's one of the major reasons for creating an Empire, after all!
inxsi wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:07 pm
Also a bit surprised that she wanted to take the dress made by Ellen, though I admittedly don't have much of a sense of Loroi fashion.
Just a bit of flavor. Or not?
Bamax wrote:
Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:08 pm
SpoilerShow
Tyr had both a repressed human side and a more obvious predatory nietzchean side.

He admired Dylan for his heroics, but found Dylsn's ultimate goal of restoring what was destroyed endlessly absurd to the point of amusement.

Say what you will about Tyr, but he had an eloquence about him that was unrivaled in the the show.

Tyr's actor evidently understood his character well, since in Tyr's journal he admits he wishes Dylan WERE Nietzchean, and something Tyr said on the show on the episode he finally left to strike out on his own echoes it.

He told Dylan, faced with a massive fleet of conflicting factions, all hostile to Andromeda, that Dylan should just Nova bomb them.

Dylan of course later showred he could not due to his ethics, and we all know how Nietzcheans view ethics... they are fine up until they impede your goal. There is no wrong way to win for a Nietzchean.

Right after making the suggestion to bomb the hostile fleet, which included his hated Nietzchean enemies as well, Tyr made a very telling comment to Dylan about the choice he had just offered him, "It would be a very Nietzchean choice."


Tyr wanted Dylan to be more... like a Nieztchean, and Dylan wanted Tyr to repress his Nietzchean side for the restoration of something Tyr thought was absurd anyway.

If Tyr and Dylan's relationship proved anything it's this... people with views on ethics that vary from our own cannot forever stay our friends.

Eventually we surrender and become what they are or they surrender and become what we are.

Relationships are dynamic, never static.

I truly believe that if Dylan were willing to act in a more... less ethically bound way... Tyr as a character would have been more than willing to stick around.

Since Tyr respected Dylan, and that is something coming from a Nietzchean who won't hesitate to kill any who impede him

Tyr thought Dylan could be useful, and he was, for a time anyway.

Tyr's thoughts on Dylan are best described in his journal, "Whether there was time or not, I did not hesitate in the motion of life to walk and talk with this lovely and glorious idiot."

In Tyr's own words, Dylan could achieve so much more if were... more like a Nietzchean.
It's been ages since I watched this show, but now that you mentioned it, I remember the particular reason why I abandoned it. The writers bit off too much philosophy, far more than they could ever hope to chew. This particular conflict, ethics and ideals vs. egoism and utilitarianism, is a very old one, but they overdid the characters that represented them. This way, Tyr was portrayed as a backstabbing jerk and Dylan tried too hard to be a beacon of morals, which often prevented him from achieving his goals. Both were utterly unfit to be in the military, though, not to mention to be promoted to officers!

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Re: [Fan Fiction] Notes and discussion for "A sword that wields itself"

Post by Bamax »

I found nothing bad in exploring egoism vs altruism in fiction, in large part because it is a reality we all face.

Egoism versus altruism.... do you help yourself or someone else? Choose one.

Honestly Tyr resonated with me simply because I definitely am naturally more egoistic than altruistic. In my case I think it stems from distrust of others, in part from an oppressive, and occasionally physically abusive childhood, and learning quickly that among school kids if you do not stand up for yourself you cannot count on anyone else to do it for you. Beyond that, I was physically strong enough to fend off most schoolyard threats anyway. The one time I was knocked out was due to me colliding with a kid in baseball... trying to reach the base plate.

Ended the game... so it was not worth it in the end. I have hated baseball always, due to the long waits between the action, and the fact that my speed... one of my greatest physical assets, was all too easily countered with fastball throws and catches.

I was a lot more successful at football... never was I even hurt playing it, though I reckon I did hurt others in my efflorts to win.

As an adult I realize the folly in my ways. Winning is not everything... iF the thing you are trying to win is not absolutely something you must win or else something bad will occur.

inxsi
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Notes and discussion for "A sword that wields itself"

Post by inxsi »

Cthulhu wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:54 am
Ah, you got me here. You see, Cyber-Todd released Skyrim for the 5th-gen VR console recently, and most of the crew played it excessively. Maybe up to a point where it continued into their dreams and spilled over to Emberwing. :o
For us to believe that, there would still be glitches - unless the dream makes those not noticeable :)
Cthulhu wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:54 am
All other Union members are mostly demilitarized, and their populations are regarded as civilians under Loroi law. However, if the Humans have something that's comparable to a warrior ruling class, they'll never agree to demote themselves, thus dismantling their Empire. Or, that's how a typical Loroi would see it, since she compares it to the Loroi social structures. The similarity between the species is certainly great enough to trigger such comparisons, maybe even on a subconscious level.
I suppose so - though I assumed the difference in the Humans having non-psychic warriors would have changed Emberwing's view. And they would have to be used to Loroi warriors subordinating themselves to other warriors during the Loroi unification.
Cthulhu wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:54 am
Just a bit of flavor. Or not?
Stillstorm: I see you've been brainwashed by the pink-skins into frivolous non-warrior clothes such as dresses!
Narrator: And thus, the hope for peace was lost.

It does make me wonder what the standards of dress are for Loroi warriors who are not stationed where they need to be ready for combat.

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Cthulhu
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Re: [Fan Fiction] Notes and discussion for "A sword that wields itself"

Post by Cthulhu »

Bamax wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:43 pm
I found nothing bad in exploring egoism vs altruism in fiction, in large part because it is a reality we all face.
It's good if it is explored in a believable way, but Tyr's betrayal seemed to be way too forced, up to a point where he was actually clearly sorry for it. Yet the script called for it, and he had to obey.
inxsi wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:41 pm
I suppose so - though I assumed the difference in the Humans having non-psychic warriors would have changed Emberwing's view. And they would have to be used to Loroi warriors subordinating themselves to other warriors during the Loroi unification.
The unification meant that the existing system became bigger, Loroi being subordinate to other Loroi wasn't much of a novelty. But here, will the humans get their own caste, like the Perrein's Mizol or Taben's Tenoin? I don't think so.
Anyway, do the humans even have a warrior/civilian structure similar to the Loroi one? Emberwing might take the term nobility too literally, and she is probably overly fixated on the "warrior" part. Who says that the psionic humans need to be warriors?
inxsi wrote:
Mon Oct 25, 2021 8:41 pm
Stillstorm: I see you've been brainwashed by the pink-skins into frivolous non-warrior clothes such as dresses!
Narrator: And thus, the hope for peace was lost.

It does make me wonder what the standards of dress are for Loroi warriors who are not stationed where they need to be ready for combat.
I doubt that there are any particular restriction on how the warriors must dress off-duty, especially back home. Unless it's dark elf fashion.

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