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Loroi sexuality 
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Mali wrote:
2. I strongly opposse view that homosexuals may make warriors uncomfortable on battlefield. Some examples makes my point: Holy Theban regiment, Alexander of Macedon personal Company or entire Spartan warrior culture.

Good point.
And welcome onboard!


Arioch wrote:
In a society in which homosexuality or bisexuality is considered the norm, then of course I would not expect it to cause undue problems in the military. But among the Loroi I do not think it would be considered the norm, for the reasons I have mentioned.

But what Mali pointed out (a bond to the loved ones) is not diametral to the warrior-codex (a bond to your clan/group/unit/whatever).
And taboos are spice, no? :D

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Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:40 am
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Just admit that you want to see hot loroi girl on girl action.

Like all of us.

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Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:57 am
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
bunnyboy wrote:
Just admit that you want to see hot loroi girl on girl action.

<Al Bundy>
"...that, too!"
</Al Bundy>

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Last edited by Trantor on Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:05 am, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:35 am
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
bunnyboy wrote:
Just admit that you want to see hot loroi girl on girl action.

Like all of us.


He cracked my evil plan. Need to dispose him immediately.


Tue Dec 25, 2012 8:00 am
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Victor_D wrote:
Since Loroi females spend most of their life completely separated from Loroi males, they don't really have much notion of what they are supposed to be like aside from what they've been told, right?

Loroi females will often have their first sexual encounter at a very young age (8 or 9 for warriors), but it's true that this encounter may be their first real contact with a male, so they won't have much idea of what to expect. It wouldn't make much sense for a young female to be extraordinarily picky.

Victor_D wrote:
WHY are Loroi males so small? What's the evolutionary pressure that overrides the tendency towards convergence?

In most mammals, males are larger than females because they have a dominant role, often having to fight other males and protect females and young. In most other organisms, in which the males just fertilize and then leave, males are smaller than females. Most organisms are not big and strong unless they have to be, because it's expensive.

Jericho wrote:
Evolution would probably never create a mammal with males only being ten percent (i don't know of any real life examples). Nor do i think that evolution would create a male so fysically unfit for anything besides sperm donation (that on exists among fishes as far as i know).

There are plenty of examples of both of those cases. Social insects, for starters. In some bird species, males are so specialized for sexual display that they can barely feed themselves.

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Tue Dec 25, 2012 9:56 am
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Arioch wrote:
In most mammals, males are larger than females because they have a dominant role, often having to fight other males and protect females and young. In most other organisms, in which the males just fertilize and then leave, males are smaller than females. Most organisms are not big and strong unless they have to be, because it's expensive.


So, was fighting for males common early in Loroi prehistory, so that this evolutionary pressure actually applied itself for a period long enough to produce such a marked change?

(Yes, I am assuming evolution played some role in shaping them. If they were "intelligently designed" (I hate myself for writing this) to be like this, then it's obviously a moot point.)


Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:27 am
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Victor_D wrote:
So, was fighting for males common early in Loroi prehistory, so that this evolutionary pressure actually applied itself for a period long enough to produce such a marked change?

I'm not following your logic. In most organisms, males are smaller by default, and it would take evolutionary pressure to make them larger, not the other way around.

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Tue Dec 25, 2012 10:47 am
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Arioch wrote:
There are plenty of examples of both of those cases. Social insects, for starters. In some bird species, males are so specialized for sexual display that they can barely feed themselves.


I wasn't talking about insects or birds. I was talking about mammals, there's a big difference in reproductive strategy between all three kinds of animals. Sorry if i didn't make it clear. Still if you know any mammal that fit the profile i'd really like to know :D.

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Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:19 am
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Actually, are we sure that loroi are mammals? They are aliens created mystery godrace, so their tits may be jiggly funbags only to humour their masters with no other purpose or even somekind of spore spreaders. :shock:

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Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:17 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
bunnyboy wrote:
Actually, are we sure that loroi are mammals? They are aliens created mystery godrace, so their tits may be jiggly funbags only to humour their masters with no other purpose or even somekind of spore spreaders. :shock:


First: Mammals are usually classified as creatures that give birth to live young so the loroi are most likely mammals.

Second: I'd like for you to present this theory to the loroi science fair and see what reaction your "controversial" claim gets (and do be careful to wear clothes that absorbes blood easily, no need to get it on the carpet :D).

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Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:35 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Jericho wrote:
I wasn't talking about insects or birds. I was talking about mammals, there's a big difference in reproductive strategy between all three kinds of animals. Sorry if i didn't make it clear. Still if you know any mammal that fit the profile i'd really like to know.

Sure, there are several mammal species (such as the naked mole rat) with eusocial systems very similar to social insects: there are large breeding female "queens", sterile female workers, and specialized breeding males that are smaller than either.

In many primitive mammals such as rodents, females tend to be slightly larger because they have additional reproductive baggage and are usually responsible for protecting the young. It's when social systems develp and genders become specialized that they really start to diverge. A common option is for the males to become specialized protectors and grow larger and stronger, but that's clearly not the only option.

It's sort of a moot point because the Loroi are not a naturally evolved species, but I don't see any reason why a system like the Loroi one couldn't have evolved naturally. There are some terrestrial organisms with really weird reproductive and social systems.

Loroi have mammalian characteristics, but as alien organisms they can't technically be classified as mammals.

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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Jericho wrote:
bunnyboy wrote:
Actually, are we sure that loroi are mammals? They are aliens created mystery godrace, so their tits may be jiggly funbags only to humour their masters with no other purpose or even somekind of spore spreaders. :shock:


First: Mammals are usually classified as creatures that give birth to live young so the loroi are most likely mammals.

Second: I'd like for you to present this theory to the loroi science fair and see what reaction your "controversial" claim gets (and do be careful to wear clothes that absorbes blood easily, no need to get it on the carpet :D).


Some species of fish gives birth to live young. Then, what do you gonna say to Perry the Platypus? For extraterrestial life we can use terms like mammalian-resembling-species and so on. We don't even know how alien DNA might look like or work. Alien sapient species could be a mixture more related to a mineral and plant while looking like a predator cats.


Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:50 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Mali wrote:
Some species of fish gives birth to live young. Then, what do you gonna say to Perry the Platypus? For extraterrestial life we can use terms like mammalian-resembling-species and so on. We don't even know how alien DNA might look like or work. Alien sapient species could be a mixture more related to a mineral and plant while looking like a predator cats.


I'm afraid i don't understand your reasoning.

First i'm well aware that some animals besides mammals give birth to live young, thats why i typed in specifically uncertain terms such as usually and most likely
(i mean no insult i just want to clarify).

Second: I'm not certain what dna makes for difference when we are discussing superficial traits to certain kinds of animals.

Thirdly: I don't know why the terms we already have doesn't work on alien life. Mammal, reptile, mammal-like reptile and so on, we are really just classifying them after a system we invented not after what nature probably intended.

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Tue Dec 25, 2012 3:48 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Arioch wrote:
Sure, there are several mammal species (such as the naked mole rat) with eusocial systems very similar to social insects: there are large breeding female "queens", sterile female workers, and specialized breeding males that are smaller than either.

In many primitive mammals such as rodents, females tend to be slightly larger because they have additional reproductive baggage and are usually responsible for protecting the young. It's when social systems develp and genders become specialized that they really start to diverge. A common option is for the males to become specialized protectors and grow larger and stronger, but that's clearly not the only option.

It's sort of a moot point because the Loroi are not a naturally evolved species, but I don't see any reason why a system like the Loroi one couldn't have evolved naturally. There are some terrestrial organisms with really weird reproductive and social systems.

Loroi have mammalian characteristics, but as alien organisms they can't technically be classified as mammals.


Ah touche... but you're right it is a moot point regarding the loroi.

Either way whats really interesting is how the loroi dealt with the dangers of childbirth in the early eras (this really should be called the loroi sexuality and reproduction thread). From what i know of history the leading cause of death among women were childbirth. How did the loroi deal with that or do they have rubber vaginas (sorry couldn't help myself)?

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Tue Dec 25, 2012 4:07 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Loroi see sex as a tool for becoming pregnant. Human males cannot impregnate Loroi females.

Loroi use telepathy to initiate intimacy. Humans are not a telepathic race.

Loroi males look like young boys, in comparison adult male humans would look comical at best and grotesque at worst.

Loroi have a great disdain for civilians. Human civilizations by this point are democracies which hold the individual civilian as the ideal (I believe Arioch has stated that most other forms of government have been phased out, please correct me if I am wrong.)

Loroi see all aliens as inferior at best and slaves that are destined to be brutally enslaved at worst.

Humanity has nothing of military worth that can repel Loroi aggression. Humanity occupies territory that can be used to attack Umiak flanks. At best human territory will be brutally enslaved to provide an invasion platform to launch assaults on Umiak held worlds. At worst it will be glassed to prevent the Umiak from doing the same to Loroi held worlds.

I look forward to seeing how Arioch finishes this story, as I can see no other outcome but the complete annihilation of Humanity as an inevitability. Though I will say that it is a poor writer that doesn't maneuver their characters onto a slender tree branch and then start sawing it off.


Last edited by Grayhome on Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Dec 25, 2012 5:52 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Yes, humanity doesn't have anything that could repel a Loroi invasion.

But... the Loroi don't know where humanity's worlds are.

Even if they did, and came in and started glassing them, they would never be entirely sure they got them all.

Even if they were relatively sure they got them all, they would never, ever be sure they got all the actual humans.

And they will have given the remaining humans a huge incentive for throwing in with the Umiak.

Umiak production manned by human crews (cloned, if necessary, to get the numbers) = Loroi main advantage gone = Loroi planets glassed = Loroi lose the war.

The Loroi's best bet is to keep the humans happy, at least until they figure out how to farsense them.


Tue Dec 25, 2012 6:08 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Quote:
But... the Loroi don't know where humanity's worlds are.


Arioch has stated that it would be child's play to find out.

Quote:
Even if they did, and came in and started glassing them, they would never be entirely sure they got them all.


They would hit every population center and every manufacturing center, without those facilities and a steady supply of food from the home world (which would receive a very thorough amount of glassing) a colony would quickly die off, I would think.

Quote:
And they will have given the remaining humans a huge incentive for throwing in with the Umiak.


Indeed.


Quote:
Umiak production manned by human crews (cloned, if necessary, to get the numbers) = Loroi main advantage gone = Loroi planets glassed = Loroi lose the war.


Why would the Umiak use humans? They have their own specially modified gene soldiers to man ships. I do not understand the point here.

Quote:
The Loroi's best bet is to keep the humans happy, at least until they figure out how to farsense them.


The Loroi are Feudal society in the middle of a war for their very survival and are thus not interested in keeping anyone happy. Why would they have any interest in keeping a species of aliens happy when they could simply glass them.


Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:12 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Bah. It'll be so easy to control us that pretty much any effort put into attacking us is a waste. The only thing the Loroi will have to worry about is us being used as assassins by other Loroi.


Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:12 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Quote:
The only thing the Loroi will have to worry about is us being used as assassins by other Loroi.


I had considered that one of the only merits humanity could possibly offer the Loroi, but that would be an... incredibly distasteful task for both sides. Male humans assassinating Loroi females? Would you want that job?


Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:15 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Grayhome wrote:
Why would the Umiak use humans? They have their own specially modified gene soldiers to man ships. I do not understand the point here.


We have Lotai, they don't. Man a fleet entirely with humans and the Loroi won't be able to sense us and thus won't be able to intercept us. The Loroi have survived this long solely off of their ability to concentrate their forces in the most important places and intercept anything that comes in. If the Umiak man a msall strike force with humans and send them at one end of the lines while a large force feints somewhere else we could likely break through and wreak havoc. Granted it would probably be a suicide mission, but the amount of damage we can do could easily turn the tide.


Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:16 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Grayhome wrote:
Quote:
The only thing the Loroi will have to worry about is us being used as assassins by other Loroi.


I had considered that one of the only merits humanity could possibly offer the Loroi, but that would be an... incredibly distasteful task for both sides. Male humans assassinating Loroi females? Would you want that job?


If I'm a trained SOG operative? Sure, it's no worse than anything else I've probably done.


Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:17 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Quote:
If I'm a trained SOG operative? Sure, it's no worse than anything else I've probably done.


I think I just heard the founding fathers turning in their graves... :|
I hope that the entirety of human history in the story won't be reduced to "those scary pink aliens who murder well" in the conclusion. I was hoping for something more meaningful.

However, if we are to be the scary, feared pink aliens, I would hope we're the scariest, pinkest of them all! Here's a humble suggestion:
Spoiler: show
Image


Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:23 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Victor_D wrote:
Humans don't have telepathy. In the absence of a telepathic link with the human male, the *only* way for a Loroi woman to establish intimacy with a human male is you-know-what.
The question is just how interested in intimacy would a Loroi female be?

We humans have the hypothesis of the Uncanny valley.
The blue skin the Loroi may not be much of a problem for us as we have such a wide range of skin tones as a species but for the Loroi - if they were to have their own version of the uncanny valley - our skin not being a shade of blue (like a real person) and our freakish psychic invisibility might be a bit like a zombie would be for us.

We are after all (, to them): intellectually opaque, emotionally dead and incapable of real intimacy.
That we only communicate via spoken word - the language of lies, the tool of deceit - means we would be instinctively be distrusted even if they intellectually accept that we don't have telepathy. (As if we had forked tongues so to speak :twisted: )

Add in the Loroi's (IIRC) xenophobia, species chauvinism & war stress, and the idea that the typical Loroi female would be interested in becoming intimate with a human male becomes unlikely.

Sexual outliers may exist like how there are humans who are drawn to necrophilia and bestiality (or perhaps equivalent of the real-doll market) but they will in all likelihood be rare.

---

Speaking of zombies, do the Loroi have bogeymen (like zombies, vampires, etc)?
And does the unnaturally pale and seemingly dead Alexander push any of these cultural buttons? :)

---

Speaking (ever so briefly) of sex toys, do the Loroi have use for them? Much of a industry?
If yes-no then we may finally have found something humanity has to offer that the Loroi need want. :D

Quote:
Beryl: So Captain Jardin on to the next item recovered from your ship, can you explain the purpose of this device?
Alex (turning red): It is a - um - personal massage tool - it - well - can be used for stress relief and to help manage a certain - frustration - by females

One awkward technical explanation and one evening later...

Beryl: Captain Jardin you mentioned previously about a tanker and communications relay...

Would porn exist for the Loroi - perhaps as a telepathic tale or experience?

Have the Loroi had Helen of Troy type figures in the past, were Loroi groups have gone to war over a single male?

---

Aside: For those interested in other takes on the 90% female population dynamic I can recommend A Brother's Price by Wen Spencer - set in a era of horses and six shooters, cannons and ironclads - I consider it an excellent piece of sci-fi detailing a civilisation that might arise from such a unbalanced population. I particularly liked one tiny bit where two characters (one male, one female) ever so briefly discuss what differences 90% (and 50%) male populations might produce compared to the normal 10% one. It was delightfully meta.

---

I really need to type faster, there has eight posts since I started this one. :o

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Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:36 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Grayhome wrote:
Quote:
If I'm a trained SOG operative? Sure, it's no worse than anything else I've probably done.


I think I just heard the founding fathers turning in their graves... :|
I hope that the entirety of human history in the story won't be reduced to "those scary pink aliens who murder well" in the conclusion. I was hoping for something more meaningful.


It's been made fairly clear that we will, in the long term, have value as engineers and scientists for the Loroi. I'll be interested to see if we have a scene where Alex brings up the timeline of human technology, because they will probably think he's exaggerating or flat out lying. THAT will likely be our most prominent long-term role in the Loroi Empire, though it will be a while before we can really assume that mantle.


Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:42 pm
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Post Re: Loroi sexuality
Quote:
It's been made fairly clear that we will, in the long term, have value as engineers and scientists for the Loroi. I'll be interested to see if we have a scene where Alex brings up the timeline of human technology, because they will probably think he's exaggerating or flat out lying. THAT will likely be our most prominent long-term role in the Loroi Empire, though it will be a while before we can really assume that mantle.


Exactly my point, the Loroi do not have the time to wait for humanity to play catch up. They are in a battle that is rapidly escalating and need a quick and easy solution. Glassing humanity would be the only thing they have time for, as they barely have enough ships to protect themselves, let alone a useless race with backwards tech.


Tue Dec 25, 2012 7:51 pm
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