Loroi sexuality

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Jericho
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Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by Jericho »

Trantor wrote:
Jericho wrote:First: Keeping a secret is way easier than obtaining the truth. If you don't want them to find out then don't talk to them.
Hahaha. As if there´s nothing like espionage and traitors.
As i said in the very same piece that you conviently ignored they aren't that effective. A spies efficiency is determined by their ability to blend in to the society. I would think there is nothing easier than preventing an alien spy access to information that you don't want them have.
Jericho wrote:Please don't bother responding if you can't answer this one point.
I see potential for improvement in tone.
And pls would you be so kind to answer my question from yesterday?
Tone? You wish to lecture about tone when just the other day you flatly assumed alcoholic intake rather than serious response and doesn't have the simply courtesy of telling me why.
As Stillstorm would put it: My tolerance for hypocrsiy has limits.

And no there is nothing wrong with specifying information that you require. His entire argument builds on the assumption that we can't keep a secret, i wish to know why.

Jericho wrote:The only problem with moving materials and equipment is if the loroi know how much we can produce for them and they're suspecting we arent filling the bill. Again how would they know.
See 1.
Yes indeed and this time, please read (This is a friendly request, not an insult).
Jericho wrote:Fourth: Finding qualified, devoted personnel is not going to be difficult in a population 25 billion.
Yeah, but only ONE traitor, and everything is toast.
True but isn't that the case of every major operation regardless. There are of course operating procedures and protocols in place to make sure that one traitor can't do anything withput arousing suspicion among their peers.
Jericho wrote:If you wan't to move them without arousing suspicion then don't tell anyone
See 1.
Indeed
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through. General C.H Melchett commander of some unknown british regiment in the western front.

JQBogus
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Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by JQBogus »

I wonder how good Loroi are at espionage when they can't use telepathy.

Jericho
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Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by Jericho »

JQBogus wrote:I wonder how good Loroi are at espionage when they can't use telepathy.
They're neither better or worse of than any other race. Espionage relies on ones ability to infiltrate an enemy society without detection. For aliens of different nations this is damn near impossible.
Telepathy is the only viable option and even that can mostly only be used in direct confrontation with an enemy (as far as i know) making espionage a rather difficult field of war in this story.
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through. General C.H Melchett commander of some unknown british regiment in the western front.

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Trantor
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Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by Trantor »

Jericho wrote:As i said in the very same piece that you conviently ignored they aren't that effective. A spies efficiency is determined by their ability to blend in to the society.
Yes. And they´re so different from us. Oh, wait...
And there will be traitors, be sure.

Jericho wrote:Tone? You wish to lecture about tone
Yes, ´cause i´m an expert in that. Depending on the prefix, but nevertheless. :twisted:

Jericho wrote:when just the other day you flatly assumed alcoholic intake rather than serious respons
Either you were drunk, which would be an excuse, or... well, go figure.

Jericho wrote:and doesn't have the simply courtesy of telling me why.
Because there´s no sense in it. Either you get it, or you don´t. Which obviously is the case here.

Jericho wrote:As Stillstorm would put it: My tolerance for hypocrsiy has limits.
I shivver in awe... :roll:
sapere aude.

Jericho
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Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by Jericho »

Trantor wrote: Yes. And they´re so different from us. Oh, wait...
And there will be traitors, be sure.
Yes they are quite different from us. Or do you propose otherwise?

And traitors... really? What would they offer us that would convince anyone that it's a good idea to jepordise their nations future, their career, their families safety etc etc.
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through. General C.H Melchett commander of some unknown british regiment in the western front.

Jericho
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Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by Jericho »

fredgiblet wrote: ...

Do you WANT to be known as a place that makes cool stuff and has EXTREMELY strange sexual media?
I think Germany is already pretty wll known for their tech and weird sex (Two girls one ahem)

On the other side German engineers invented a machine that electroshocks bed-wetters while they sleep. I haven't seen it in action but i've heard it works... so hats off for the german engineers you know what the hell your doing :D.
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through. General C.H Melchett commander of some unknown british regiment in the western front.

JQBogus
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Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by JQBogus »

Jericho wrote:
JQBogus wrote:I wonder how good Loroi are at espionage when they can't use telepathy.
They're neither better or worse of than any other race. Espionage relies on ones ability to infiltrate an enemy society without detection. For aliens of different nations this is damn near impossible.
Telepathy is the only viable option and even that can mostly only be used in direct confrontation with an enemy (as far as i know) making espionage a rather difficult field of war in this story.

There is a lot more to espionage than just covert infiltration of enemy territory during war.

How, for example, do the Loroi keep an eye on their allies? They presumably have a diplomatic and economic presence in allied territory (other than the Historian's, anyway)

Can (non-Human) non-telepaths tell if they are being mind read? Can some rare and powerful Loroi read minds without physical contact? The description of Telepathy in the extras says that mind reading [/i]generally[/i] requires physical contact, so maybe it doesn't always.

If the Loroi have undetectable remote mind reading (however rare), how much incentive would they have to retain the spy craft they presumably developed for use on each other before unification? Just include one of the very rare remote mind readers as 'under-assistant for economic development' in the Loroi Embassy trade delegation.

Basically, all I am saying is that IF Loroi intelligence relies heavily on Telepathy powers, and everyone they've met so far is more or less telepathically vulnerable, then they may not have developed or retained non-telepathy related techniques for spying and intelligence gathering to the extent that Humans have.

Jericho
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Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by Jericho »

JQBogus wrote:
There is a lot more to espionage than just covert infiltration of enemy territory during war.

How, for example, do the Loroi keep an eye on their allies? They presumably have a diplomatic and economic presence in allied territory (other than the Historian's, anyway)

Can (non-Human) non-telepaths tell if they are being mind read? Can some rare and powerful Loroi read minds without physical contact? The description of Telepathy in the extras says that mind reading [/i]generally[/i] requires physical contact, so maybe it doesn't always.

If the Loroi have undetectable remote mind reading (however rare), how much incentive would they have to retain the spy craft they presumably developed for use on each other before unification? Just include one of the very rare remote mind readers as 'under-assistant for economic development' in the Loroi Embassy trade delegation.

Basically, all I am saying is that IF Loroi intelligence relies heavily on Telepathy powers, and everyone they've met so far is more or less telepathically vulnerable, then they may not have developed or retained non-telepathy related techniques for spying and intelligence gathering to the extent that Humans have.
First: Yes they would most likely have an eye on their allies. But these eyes are limited to official channels by races who desires to hide things from the loroi and the contact is strictly regulated.

Second: Yes some Loroi telepaths have the ability to read minds from far distance without touch there are three examples of this. Ultrasensetive telepaths capable of intercepting transmissions that are not meant for them. Loroi telepaths can at distance read the minds (i think) of the Pipolsid which is why they have such a close relationship. Thirdly the golim who are their lapdogs essentially.

Third: Exactly what would this spy craft do?

Fourth: It's a good point what you're saying and the loroi's overreliance upon telepathy have been a major kick in the side for them, examples: The mannadi, The semoset offensive.
It's my opinion that when telepathy fails the loroi simple doesn't have anything else going for them. They're not a superpower without telepathy, just another species.
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through. General C.H Melchett commander of some unknown british regiment in the western front.

Southern Cross
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Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by Southern Cross »

This is ignoring the fact that some Loroi have psychokinesis ( which does have some uses in espionage -floating portable computers out the door or window, grabbing trusted personnel from a distance, et cetera. And it can be used in interrogation as well- "Please stop spinning me around! I'll tell you what I want to know!"

Jericho
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Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by Jericho »

Southern Cross wrote:This is ignoring the fact that some Loroi have psychokinesis ( which does have some uses in espionage -floating portable computers out the door or window, grabbing trusted personnel from a distance, et cetera. And it can be used in interrogation as well- "Please stop spinning me around! I'll tell you what I want to know!"
All of these can be done without psychokinesis as well and the problem is that these are flatly hostile actions against an alien power and no one is going to stand for this. If the loroi resorts to these tactics they are already (probably) at war and then we just have to look at the delrias to see what happened. Whats the point of espionage and infiltration without arousing suspicion if you are preapared to aquire the information by force anyway. We are not talking about a spy agency anymore, we are talking about an occupational force.
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through. General C.H Melchett commander of some unknown british regiment in the western front.

fredgiblet
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Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by fredgiblet »

Jericho wrote:First: Keeping a secret is way easier than obtaining the truth. If you don't want them to find out then don't talk to them. without faster than light sensors keeping track on what happens in a system without fleet in every corner. I don't think they'll commit that large of a force to one species if they are smart by your standards. Unless they immediately suspect that we are planning something behind their back and are a threat worhty of considiration they'll be none the wiser. and don't bother with spies alien informants aren't that efficient.
Too late, we are talking to them. The Loroi will have a presence in our systems, they will have to since the Umiak are likely to run into us in the near future. At minimum we'll have a small task force, likely we'll have that task force plus a constant trickle of cargo ships going all over the place. They also have plenty of reason to have scouts staging from our systems as expansion is an ongoing process. They already have strong reasons to distrust us and though we don't, yet, pose a direct military threat to them our abilities will make us a threat if we get technological parity. They can prevent us from gaining technological parity, but if they're going to do that they might as well kill us since it will be easier and keeping us from teching up will eliminate our greatest value.
Second: You must motivate to me how they'll find out. Since your entire argument is based on the assumption that they do but you never explain why. Please don't bother responding if you can't answer this one point.
The operation you're talking about is enormous, building a fleet that is capable of taking on the Loroi is going to require hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people and tens of thousands of tons of material. You're proposing we'll move all of that without being noticed. As I stated before the Loroi will have a presence in our systems, they will be here and they WILL be watching everything we do unless we gain a LOT of trust in a short time. If we build your fleet in our main systems the Loroi won't even have to work to see it, if we build them in a un-settled system we now have dozens more shipments going to a supposedly empty system then we had going before, and of course the Loroi will accept any explanation we give at face value and not take a look, right? No, they'll be poking around all the time, their fleets will make rounds and check border systems, their scouts and cargo ships will be going through our systems all the time
Third: So what if it's going to take time. Time is on our side. You do not know how long this war will last. As long as the loroi are going strong we're winning because the longer the war takes the more time we have to strengthen ourselves. The only problem with moving materials and equipment is if the loroi know how much we can produce for them and they're suspecting we arent filling the bill. Again how would they know.
Time isn't on our side. Every day there's another chance for the Loroi to stumble on our magically hidden shipbuilding facilities, another day where our economies become more interdependent, another day where we have people growing more comfortable with the status quo and less interested in changing it, another day for a new generation to grow up who don't see a problem with being part of the Loroi Union another day for our politicians to get an offer they can't refuse from the Loroi. Or worse, another day where we're holding back and the Loroi are losing (unless you think the Umiak are a better choice). Time is NOT on our side.
Fifth: I don't know if you are arguing for my position or against me. You say that if the loroi are smart they'll leave us to handle our own affairs. How does this not help my position? You've just presented the window of opportunity for exactly what i'm proposing.
They aren't going to meddle (much) in our culture, obviously their presence will have an effect, and I highly doubt that our controllers (as in the people behind our OWN cultural development) won't make a few Loroi celebrities in human society and those will of course be used by the Loroi as well. But they aren't going to be telling us much in the way of how we have to live our lives. They WILL be watching, constantly. Earth will probably end up with a concentration of Mizol higher than any other planet except Perrein, most of them likely disguised as civilian contractors of their own. We will probably have more freedom than their other client races, but the cost of that will be that we will be analyzed more than their other client races.
Jericho wrote:As i said in the very same piece that you conviently ignored they aren't that effective. A spies efficiency is determined by their ability to blend in to the society. I would think there is nothing easier than preventing an alien spy access to information that you don't want them have.
It's not as simple as that. Do you think Robert Hanssen didn't know he was dealing with Russians? The Loroi will have a more difficult time sneaking in, sure, but the most damaging breaches have usually been when someone who was already in switched sides. Additionally unless you're going the Trantor route and claiming we'll get the Historians to give us tech the Loroi don't NEED to sneak in, they'll already be a major part of our STEM fields for some time. We could, of course, kick them out the second we reach parity, that won't be suspicious at all.
True but isn't that the case of every major operation regardless. There are of course operating procedures and protocols in place to make sure that one traitor can't do anything withput arousing suspicion among their peers.
ALL they would have to do is find a Loroi and say "we're building a fleet". You can't prevent them from doing that without either cloistering them for the entire time the project takes or never letting a Loroi speak with a human. Good luck finding hundreds of thousands of people willing to agree to spend the next 10 years of their lives working in a complete blackout. The procedures you're talking about might prevent them from knowing how many, might prevent them from knowing exactly where, but the Loroi don't need that information, all they need is the knowledge that it's happening, they can make the rest come to light.
Jericho wrote:And traitors... really? What would they offer us that would convince anyone that it's a good idea to jepordise their nations future, their career, their families safety etc etc.
Simple, all they have to do is find someone who thinks that what YOU are proposing jeopardizes their nations future, their career and the their families safety. It won't be hard since what you're proposing DOES. You can argue that it's the better choice of course, but not everyone will see it that way.

As for what they are offering, you've got all the same things that people turn for now, money, love (or sex) and power.

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Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by fredgiblet »

Trantor wrote:The out-tech part comes from the Historians.
Ah, so the Historians are going to hand us tech and the Loroi won't know or care about it, gotcha.
The Loroi are crazy witches. We spoiled their fairy tales just by our very existance. They will come for us sooner or later. I can´t believe that you fail to see the necessity to prepare for that war.
When you're starting as far behind as we are and the preparations are as likely to get you killed I don't think it's such a great idea. If we're valuable they won't kill us, even if they don't really like us. If we are a threat they will kill us immediately. We plan for the war by making ourselves indispensable so there won't be one. Eventually they'll get over themselves and your fear of them killing us because we show they aren't as special as they wanted to be goes away.

Your plan has a chance of lowering the long-term threat against us somewhat, but in the meantime dramatically increases our threat level. I see this as betting our lives on drawing an inside straight, when we can fold instead and join forces.
In a battle it´s all about firepower. If you outgun your opponent, you win.
Winter War. Sometimes you lose because the other guys are better than you. Maybe they don't have the same firepower, but they know how to use what they have better. The Loroi have been doing space war for centuries and they certainly have some very experienced people at the moment. We have nothing. We've probably never fired a shot except for warning shots to suspected smugglers.

Also you're looking at the same issue Jericho is, building a fleet in secret is going to be extremely tough, especially since you're talking about teching up to an even higher level than the Loroi.
Exactly. The Historians will provide that.
Maybe. Maybe they were the ones who killed the 'Bell, maybe they don't want us to be here because we spoil their other plans. Maybe they use this as a chance to turn the Loroi against us and wipe us out. It's just as plausible as what you're suggesting.
And of course they won´t give us their latest tech, but just enough to be ahead of the elves.
We'll still take years to get a grasp on it and be decades behind on production. Additionally we have the disadvantage of not having a totalitarian government that can kick everyone in the balls and say "you're in the navy now!" and make it stick.

JQBogus
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Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by JQBogus »

Yeah, keeping the construction of an entire galaxy conquering fleet secret would be pretty difficult. But how about keeping the construction of (or the exact nature of) a few colony ships secret?

During Construction : "Those? Oh, yeah, we're building some long range supply ships." (Loroi telepathy detects no falsehood. Well, detects nothing at all, really)

During Loading : "These sealed crates and all those people? Supplies and labor replacement for the mining operation at Uninhabited System X." (Loroi don't insist on opening the crates because we are their allies, and Camp X regularly gets supplies and replacements.)

During Departure : "Armed escort? No, it is a milk-run from here to Camp X. The whole run is well behind the lines." (Loroi don't detail a ship or ships anyway because warships are still in high demand, due to the ongoing war.)

After Departure : : "Our supply ship to Camp X has failed to report in. We've detailed some of our crappy ships that are not useful for front line duties to search for it. Hopefully it has just had a breakdown, rather than a bad jump." (Loroi roll their eyes at non-Loroi incompetence)

Ship never found... and the complement of young people, frozen embryos, colony supplies, industrial equipment, etc, are off into the deep dark to found a distant secret colony so all of Humanity's eggs are not in baskets the Loroi know about. Sure its a risky venture for the colonists, but big stakes (continuation of the species) are on the table.


Said colony has a large slower than light receiver included, and keeps an eye on Earth. Sure, the information is decades or centuries out of date, but that's OK. We'd want at least a good century of alliance with genocidal aliens before really trusting them not to glass us anyway. On the other hand, if Earth goes off-line amid panicked reports of Loroi betrayal, well, the colony then contacts (or starts sending out scouts to find) the Umiak and throw in with them.

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Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by fredgiblet »

Plausible. But building a colony is very expensive and risky, building one with no direct support would be...difficult. Also you'd need to scout a habitable planet first since sending them out with no destination would be borderline suicide.

Jericho
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Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by Jericho »

fredgiblet wrote:
Too late, we are talking to them. The Loroi will have a presence in our systems, they will have to since the Umiak are likely to run into us in the near future. At minimum we'll have a small task force, likely we'll have that task force plus a constant trickle of cargo ships going all over the place. They also have plenty of reason to have scouts staging from our systems as expansion is an ongoing process. They already have strong reasons to distrust us and though we don't, yet, pose a direct military threat to them our abilities will make us a threat if we get technological parity. They can prevent us from gaining technological parity, but if they're going to do that they might as well kill us since it will be easier and keeping us from teching up will eliminate our greatest value.


The operation you're talking about is enormous, building a fleet that is capable of taking on the Loroi is going to require hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people and tens of thousands of tons of material. You're proposing we'll move all of that without being noticed. As I stated before the Loroi will have a presence in our systems, they will be here and they WILL be watching everything we do unless we gain a LOT of trust in a short time. If we build your fleet in our main systems the Loroi won't even have to work to see it, if we build them in a un-settled system we now have dozens more shipments going to a supposedly empty system then we had going before, and of course the Loroi will accept any explanation we give at face value and not take a look, right? No, they'll be poking around all the time, their fleets will make rounds and check border systems, their scouts and cargo ships will be going through our systems all the time


Time isn't on our side. Every day there's another chance for the Loroi to stumble on our magically hidden shipbuilding facilities, another day where our economies become more interdependent, another day where we have people growing more comfortable with the status quo and less interested in changing it, another day for a new generation to grow up who don't see a problem with being part of the Loroi Union another day for our politicians to get an offer they can't refuse from the Loroi. Or worse, another day where we're holding back and the Loroi are losing (unless you think the Umiak are a better choice). Time is NOT on our side.


They aren't going to meddle (much) in our culture, obviously their presence will have an effect, and I highly doubt that our controllers (as in the people behind our OWN cultural development) won't make a few Loroi celebrities in human society and those will of course be used by the Loroi as well. But they aren't going to be telling us much in the way of how we have to live our lives. They WILL be watching, constantly. Earth will probably end up with a concentration of Mizol higher than any other planet except Perrein, most of them likely disguised as civilian contractors of their own. We will probably have more freedom than their other client races, but the cost of that will be that we will be analyzed more than their other client races.



It's not as simple as that. Do you think Robert Hanssen didn't know he was dealing with Russians? The Loroi will have a more difficult time sneaking in, sure, but the most damaging breaches have usually been when someone who was already in switched sides. Additionally unless you're going the Trantor route and claiming we'll get the Historians to give us tech the Loroi don't NEED to sneak in, they'll already be a major part of our STEM fields for some time. We could, of course, kick them out the second we reach parity, that won't be suspicious at all.



ALL they would have to do is find a Loroi and say "we're building a fleet". You can't prevent them from doing that without either cloistering them for the entire time the project takes or never letting a Loroi speak with a human. Good luck finding hundreds of thousands of people willing to agree to spend the next 10 years of their lives working in a complete blackout. The procedures you're talking about might prevent them from knowing how many, might prevent them from knowing exactly where, but the Loroi don't need that information, all they need is the knowledge that it's happening, they can make the rest come to light.


Simple, all they have to do is find someone who thinks that what YOU are proposing jeopardizes their nations future, their career and the their families safety. It won't be hard since what you're proposing DOES. You can argue that it's the better choice of course, but not everyone will see it that way.

As for what they are offering, you've got all the same things that people turn for now, money, love (or sex) and power.
First: I'll concede to your overall point about building reserve fleets in secret, not the wisest idea.

Second: I'll argue against your point about the next generation growing up to accept the aliens. They may very well grow up to detest them and wish their precense removed as soon as possible. It really depends on how harschly the effects of the war will tear on us.

Third: I'll concede to you're point about traitors. I forgot that it doesn't even have to be bribes involved, could be pure cowardice, opportunism (just examples not a generalisation).

Fourth: However we have a large population. And finding personell with the resolve and skill sign up on this idea doesn't really seem like a hard task
(fanaticism has convinced people of crazier ideas).

Now lets get back to blue vaginas.

Political marriages: Is it a crazy idea or a possibility?
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through. General C.H Melchett commander of some unknown british regiment in the western front.

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Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by fredgiblet »

Jericho wrote:Second: I'll argue against your point about the next generation growing up to accept the aliens. They may very well grow up to detest them and wish their precense removed as soon as possible. It really depends on how harschly the effects of the war will tear on us.
Certainly possible. But I don't think the Loroi will treat us in a manner that would cause that.
Fourth: However we have a large population. And finding personell with the resolve and skill sign up on this idea doesn't really seem like a hard task
(fanaticism has convinced people of crazier ideas).
When you look at the roll of famous traitors you see a lot of them that had a lot of trust. Time can change the most ardent supporter into a secret detractor.
Political marriages: Is it a crazy idea or a possibility?
Near certainty. The Loroi and our own handlers would be stupid to not create Loroi celebrities in our culture and the value of a "marriage" in that field would be immense. It won't happen right away obviously, but that Loroi action star marrying the studly pop singer? Oh yes, it's going to happen sooner or later.

Jericho
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Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by Jericho »

fredgiblet wrote:Near certainty. The Loroi and our own handlers would be stupid to not create Loroi celebrities in our culture and the value of a "marriage" in that field would be immense. It won't happen right away obviously, but that Loroi action star marrying the studly pop singer? Oh yes, it's going to happen sooner or later.
You keep talking about loroi celebrities. But who would volunteer for the job? And why exactly would it be an action star? A political figurehead seems more plauseable to me.
fredgiblet wrote:Certainly possible. But I don't think the Loroi will treat us in a manner that would cause that.
They don't have to. Humans will find a scapegoat for when things are rough. I'm afraid these celebrities of yours would be held up as examples of how our goverment has betrayed us.
If nothing else works, a total pig-headed unwillingness to look facts in the face will see us through. General C.H Melchett commander of some unknown british regiment in the western front.

JQBogus
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Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by JQBogus »

Jericho wrote:Political marriages: Is it a crazy idea or a possibility?
Coming soon to a theater near you (for Human consumption only):

"I Married a Mizol!"
Alex (Human Actor) and Tempo (Loroi Actress) are young diplomats who's superiors decide they should get married in order to improve Loroi-Human relations. With much trepidation and low expectations, they go through with it. After many humorous incidents find that they've actually fallen in love.

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Trantor
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Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by Trantor »

fredgiblet wrote:
Trantor wrote:The out-tech part comes from the Historians.
Ah, so the Historians are going to hand us tech and the Loroi won't know or care about it
What can they do? After the war, when they´re worn out?
I´m not talking about a short time span of a few months.

fredgiblet wrote:gotcha.
No need to get bitchy.

fredgiblet wrote:If we're valuable they won't kill us, even if they don't really like us.
How can you know?

fredgiblet wrote:We plan for the war by making ourselves indispensable so there won't be one.
By living on our knees? You can´t be serious.

And either way, it is not our choice what happens in the future. No one is interested in a Loroi-hegemony, especially not the Historians.

fredgiblet wrote:Eventually they'll get over themselves and your fear of them killing us because we show they aren't as special as they wanted to be goes away.
You base the future of mankind on wishful thinking?? C´mon.

fredgiblet wrote:
In a battle it´s all about firepower. If you outgun your opponent, you win.
Winter War.
Last time i checked, the Sowjets got what they wanted. Plus, everyone was undervaluing the red army thereafter, which in the end led to the total destruction of Nazi Germany.

fredgiblet wrote:Also you're looking at the same issue Jericho is, building a fleet in secret is going to be extremely tough
Who says "secret"?

fredgiblet wrote:We'll still take years to get a grasp on it and be decades behind on production. Additionally we have the disadvantage of not having a totalitarian government that can kick everyone in the balls and say "you're in the navy now!" and make it stick.
Ha. In the long run, that´s an advantage.
sapere aude.

Mayhem
Posts: 55
Joined: Tue Mar 22, 2011 3:56 am

Re: Loroi sexuality

Post by Mayhem »

Jericho wrote:
fredgiblet wrote:Near certainty. The Loroi and our own handlers would be stupid to not create Loroi celebrities in our culture and the value of a "marriage" in that field would be immense. It won't happen right away obviously, but that Loroi action star marrying the studly pop singer? Oh yes, it's going to happen sooner or later.
You keep talking about loroi celebrities. But who would volunteer for the job? And why exactly would it be an action star? A political figurehead seems more plauseable to me.
Volunteer?
They will be ordered to do it.

During the negotiations they will visit the worlds of humanity to confirm what we claim about ourselves.
They are going to see are civilian society, what a big influence the media and celebrities are (when they get asked to take part in photo opportunities [the importance of which would no doubt be explained if queried]) and when during the negotiations some one inevitably mentions "selling it to the public".
(Listels remember everything and they will be along even if it is only the Mizol doing the talking.
[I am imagining them seeing "Humanity needs you" retro posters or even the 2160's equivalent of the Marvel Captain America film where they had Captain America selling war bonds and doing moral & propaganda pieces.])
Jericho wrote:
fredgiblet wrote:Certainly possible. But I don't think the Loroi will treat us in a manner that would cause that.
They don't have to. Humans will find a scapegoat for when things are rough. I'm afraid these celebrities of yours would be held up as examples of how our goverment has betrayed us.
By some yes.
But that is balanced by those won over the celebrities if marketed correctly.
It is a numbers game.
Particle beam cannons are mass drivers :D
Fireblade's character sheet: '-1: Telepathically "talks" in sleep' 8-)

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