Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by GeoModder »

Trantor wrote:Fredge, your 2c on the implications pls? :mrgreen:
I'm not Fred, but to me the possible implication can be phrased in two words: "We're doomed!" :|
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

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GeoModder wrote:
Trantor wrote:Fredge, your 2c on the implications pls? :mrgreen:
I'm not Fred, but to me the possible implication can be phrased in two words: "We're doomed!" :|
Oh, you missed the other thread? :mrgreen:

My conclusion would be to not lay ALL our eggs in the spaceelves-basket. 8-)
sapere aude.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

Jericho wrote: And these civilian magnates were the first to have their assets seized i presume?
Yes, both their asses and assets were seized.
CJ Miller wrote:What do Loroi have for pastimes? Are sports a thing over there? And if so, which ones?
Games and sports would be popular. There would be a wide variety spread across many different worlds. The Taben windsurfing/water polo proposed by Icekatze looked like fun.
Trantor wrote:Can the Loroi farseers detect Historians?
That information probably wouldn't be available to the main characters.
fredgiblet wrote:I may have asked this before, but if I did it was a long time ago. Do the Loroi have words/concepts that would translate to Good and Evil? If not do they have replacement analogues like Duty?
The conversation from before was:
Arioch wrote:
fredgiblet wrote:2. Does Trade have concepts for "Good" and "Evil" that would map to anything like the concepts for those words in English? Would the statement "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." Be translatable in anything close to an accurate form?
Yes, Trade has a variety of words that could be used to translate that passage. If you are asking specifically about Loroi culture however, the passage above is steeped in Judeo-Christian/Muslim beliefs that the Loroi do not share (that evil is a living entity with a will of its own personified by a "Satan," and that mortal man is tainted by "Original Sin" and is therefore inherently corrupt). The Loroi mostly view good and evil in terms of "right and wrong", or rather "correct and incorrect" in terms of societal norms; this is, after all, a society for whom war is considered normal. The Loroi concept that could most closely be identified with our concept of evil is related to the word for "decay" and refers to corruption or descent into madness. "Triumph of evil" might be translated as "triumph of the enemy."

The Barsam concept of evil is as the absence of good, in the way that darkness is the absence of light, so for them evil literally is when good people do nothing. They would assume that "triumph of evil" is a metaphor (as the Barsam religious tales have villains who oppose the believers, but not an actual Satan).
I hope that answers your question.
Jericho wrote:Telepathic communication is considered deeper then regular right? Is this a just a loroi opinion or is it widely accepted? If a telepath is eager and excited to tell a story will that eagerness and excitment be apparent in the story and make it more interesting for the listener?

When an alien and loroi mind-meld they don't recieve that intimate connection from the loroi to loroi mind-meld because the alien is not a telepath. Ok so what difference does it make when the loroi is already poking around the mind of another creature?
Telepathy between Loroi does have more bandwidth than spoken communication. The Insider page on Telepathy definitely needs a revamp, but there's a lot on it in the forums and the compilations. Here's a previous conversation on the subject:
Arioch wrote:Loroi telepathy is not normally the sharing of literal "thoughts" or "emotions"; telepathic messages are similar to a spoken message, but there is a lot of extra bandwidth (which varies with the quality of the connection) that can contain subtext information, including emotional or sensory information. If there is enough telepathic bandwidth (especially if the two conversants are touching), then there may be so much information in the message that it almost seems like sharing thoughts or emotions or viewing through someone else's senses, but that's not the "normal" mode of operation for telepathy.

A Loroi who stubs her toe might "cry out" telepathically, and the subtext of this telepathic message would probably contain information that the crier was in pain, but this would not be literally be a transmission of pain.

It's difficult to knowingly transmit false information via an ordinary telepathic connection, because much of the "subtext" information is semi-conscious or unconscious. The higher the bandwidth, the greater the detail and depth of the subtext, and the harder it is to consciously control. It's possible to intentionally omit this subtext, but then the receiver definitely knows something's up; it's a bit like when someone refuses to look you in the eye when talking to you.

However, just because it's difficult to knowingly lie doesn't mean that the message must be impartial or strictly factual; it can contain opinion or judgment. Every Loroi has her own point of view, so information that she believes to be true is always colored to some extent by personal biases. Two people can watch the same event and form different interpretations of it.
fredgiblet wrote:if Tempo is holding Beryl's hand in her left hand and Fireblade's hand in her right, does Beryl have a connection to Fireblade, or do both of their connections stop at Tempo? Would a mosh pit of Loroi all be connected?
Touch contact is peer-to-peer; Fireblade touching Tempo doesn't give her direct access to Beryl. However, Tempo could choose to act as a telepathic relay, giving Fireblade and Beryl access to each other (that's not quite as high-bandwidth as direct touch, but close). This is of limited use, since if she's close enough to touch Tempo, Fireblade is probably close enough to lean over and touch Beryl herself. As osmium suggests, there are practical limits on how many people can be linked in this manner, as the amount of information being passed back and forth quickly becomes unmanageable.

The only practical use I can think of for multi-person links is groups of Listel transferring information.
Physical touch increases the bandwidth of any telepathic connection.

Telepathic contact between Loroi and aliens will depend on that species' susceptibility or resistance to telepathy. A Loroi normally can't "poke around" in another Loroi's mind unless they are touching (or the telepath is very skilled, or the Loroi's mental barriers are very poor). The same would be true for most aliens, though most aliens won't have effective mental barriers (as they haven't been trained). Some aliens could be read easily at distance (Golim); some can't be read even when touching (Humans). What the alien perceives of the Loroi also depends on the species. Alex could perceive the telepathic presence of those Loroi touching him, even though they couldn't read him.

There are two elements to "mind reading": one is detecting what a person is thinking at the moment, which requires only a sufficient connection and penetration of the subject's defense (if any). The other is accessing stored information, which is much more difficult, as the subject's mind must be "asked" for the information. Since the subject will usually be aware of this contact, he or she may be able to refuse to "answer", so to be successful, the question must either be asked in a forceful way such that it is answered reflexively, or else asked in such a subtle way that the subject answers without actually realizing it. In either case, it requires substantial skill on the part of the telepathic interrogator.

The forum Search function is currently working, by the way. I mention that because there was a time when it wasn't working, so people may have learned to ignore it.
Trantor wrote:Beryl asks about "human sanzai", and Alex answer is "...only in old sories." Is he referring to sth "real" in outsiderverse history, or just to some fictional stories, e.g. books or movies?
Alex was referring to fictional stories, legends and fairy tales of magic and the like. We do, after all, have a word for telepathy, even though it doesn't exist.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Sprawl63 »

How densely packed are Loroi cities? Is there anything that can compare to modern American/Asian cities, much less future ones?

I'd imagine, given their disposition towards personal space, cities would be more European. Shallow but spread out. I have a hard time imagining Loroi bumping into one another and walking shoulder to shoulder as happens in larger cities.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Trantor »

Sprawl63 wrote:How densely packed are Loroi cities? Is there anything that can compare to modern American/Asian cities, much less future ones?

I'd imagine, given their disposition towards personal space, cities would be more European. Shallow but spread out. I have a hard time imagining Loroi bumping into one another and walking shoulder to shoulder as happens in larger cities.
Ever been in the Hamburg Subway at rush-hour? :mrgreen: There´s no big difference to Tokyo, except the Japanese are way more polite.

But yes, i cannot imagine public transport like ours in the Loroi world, and maybe also their stadiums look a bit different.

Arioch wrote:
Trantor wrote:Can the Loroi farseers detect Historians?
That information probably wouldn't be available to the main characters.
How about the audience? :mrgreen:
sapere aude.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by JQBogus »

Concerning Loroi and games : Alex was the academy chess champion (pg 94) so maybe he will introduce the game to the loroi on the long shuttle trip. A good game for Loroi as there are no dice to be telekenetically manipulated. Though, unless Tempo is along, I wouldn't worry about that. Fireblade might be able to crush the dice, or push them through a bulkhead, but I doubt she has the control to subtly manipulate their outcome.

Speaking of which.. can Loroi detect the use of telepathy (specifically subtle tk) by other Loroi?

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by fredgiblet »

The Loroi have a chess-like game called Crossfire that Alex will be introduced to at some point in this chapter unless plans have changed.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

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Arioch wrote:The conversation from before was:
Search first, ask questions later. Thanks.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by fredgiblet »

How does the average Loroi civilian feel about the genocides?

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

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fredgiblet wrote:How does the average Loroi civilian feel about the genocides?
"The price is worth it?"
sapere aude.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by fredgiblet »

Party line.

I'm talking about civilians, not the government.

EDIT: And/or the rank-and-file soldiers

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by VictorValor »

It seems to me the Loroi people know what they're told. So my guess is their beliefs will range from "We did what we had to do." to "they had it coming!"

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Arioch »

Sprawl63 wrote:How densely packed are Loroi cities? Is there anything that can compare to modern American/Asian cities, much less future ones? I'd imagine, given their disposition towards personal space, cities would be more European. Shallow but spread out. I have a hard time imagining Loroi bumping into one another and walking shoulder to shoulder as happens in larger cities.
I think there's some variety. I imagine Deinar as being fairly European in urban character, but there are probably lots of locations that require higher density. Shipboard Loroi have to live in pretty close quarters.
JQBogus wrote:Concerning Loroi and games : Alex was the academy chess champion (pg 94) so maybe he will introduce the game to the loroi on the long shuttle trip. A good game for Loroi as there are no dice to be telekenetically manipulated. Though, unless Tempo is along, I wouldn't worry about that. Fireblade might be able to crush the dice, or push them through a bulkhead, but I doubt she has the control to subtly manipulate their outcome.
For this very reason, dice-style games won't be popular with the Loroi, nor will the sort of card games in which you need to keep your hand hidden from the other players. Even in games of strategy like chess, a significant part of the challenge will be keeping your plans secret from the other player.
JQBogus wrote:Speaking of which.. can Loroi detect the use of telepathy (specifically subtle tk) by other Loroi?

Telepathy can be detected, but it's not automatic, especially if the user is attempting to conceal it. Psychokinesis can only be detected by individual with specific skills to detect it.
fredgiblet wrote:How does the average Loroi civilian feel about the genocides?
The Tithric are viewed by the Loroi as traitors who were aiding and abetting the enemy when the Loroi were at their lowest point and on the verge of collapse and annihiliation. Sunfall's successes in the Tithric campaign were the first unqualified Loroi victories in five years of war that had been one disaster after another. The incident was cause for great celebration among the Loroi. Even if individual Loroi were inclined to be troubled by the loss of life, most believe that the Loroi had few alternatives.

The Mannadi purge is now more than 600 years in the past, so it's probably not much on the minds of current Loroi. Loroi history tells of the Mannadi as aggressive jerks who constantly attacked their neighbors, were a thorn in the Loroi side for 130 years, and at the very end were even terrible losers. Most of which was pretty true.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by Victor_D »

Sprawl63 wrote:How densely packed are Loroi cities? Is there anything that can compare to modern American/Asian cities, much less future ones?

I'd imagine, given their disposition towards personal space, cities would be more European. Shallow but spread out. I have a hard time imagining Loroi bumping into one another and walking shoulder to shoulder as happens in larger cities.
Uhm, a few things about this: first, Europeans don't have more personal space than Americans. The average flat sizes in Europe are much smaller than those in America, and the same goes to houses. Second, European cities usually lack the skyscraper-packed skylines of their American counterparts, but most of them actually have greater population density. This is because in Europe, people actually *live* in the cities, as opposed to America where people (those who can afford it, anyway) live in suburbs/exurbs and *commute* to cities for work/entertainment. Due to the somewhat lacking public mass transportation in most American cities, cars are a necessity, and once you rely on your car, why should you live in the inner city (another American phenomenon) at all? In Europe, the situation is reversed - you want to stay close to the city centre so that your commuting time via bus, tram, or subway isn't too long. Not that we don't have suburbs at all, but those are very rarely as sprawled out as in America.

Therefore, since Deinar is not even close to being as densely populated as Earth, I'd actually expect the Loroi to enjoy more space than Europeans today. I can imagine cities being built around Soia-era ruins, something akin to modern-day Rome, in some cases.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by JQBogus »

Arioch wrote: For this very reason, dice-style games won't be popular with the Loroi, nor will the sort of card games in which you need to keep your hand hidden from the other players. Even in games of strategy like chess, a significant part of the challenge will be keeping your plans secret from the other player.
Loroi games that require a random element would, perhaps, rely on drawing numbers randomly from a bowl then, or on using a computerized RNG.

The Loroi may or may not like Alex as a Crossfire opponent, once he picks up the game. It depends on if the telepathic element is considered an integral part of the game, or just a side effect of in person play. If telepathy is integral, then he wont even be able to play, if it is a side thing, it will be just like playing by mail, except in person.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by VonWolffe »

Apologies if the following have already been covered; I had a couple questions about the Loroi and how they handle loss, since it seems that they have abundant opportunity to experience it.

Looking at Talon's bio she is one of only two survivors of her squadron that have been in service for less than nine months. It's getting so bad that they have put her on shuttle duty just so that she can live long enough to train some new recruits, and she's only 13 years old. As a military man myself this blows my mind, I get that this is total war but being a sole survivor of a group of people that you know closely and trained with and came up into the military with would be devastating. I get that Stillstorm has had a very long time to collect battle scars, but to me Talon has yet to have the chance to harden herself to that kind of thing. If you wiped out 90% of my unit in front of me, as it would have been for her, it would certainly effect me.

Anyway, my questions;
- Do Loroi drink? Alcohol is paramount in the military mess, and is as important for enjoying one's off time with comrades as it is for toasting the lost. From the passing of Port and the traditions that come with it to the CO toasting the Queen at Mess Dinners. Do Loroi have a similar relationship with alcohol? Would our alcohol be poisonous to them ref. Alex and the Vomitorium? Do they dance? Do they appreciate music? How do they blow off steam?

It seems that many of the Loroi are in a position like Talon; they could die at any time at any day and they are watching their friends die around them all the time. They seem to be dying so fast that there wont be anyone left to even remember them as replacements take their place. Maybe finding some new pink friends will mean something to them from a morale standpoint.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by bunnyboy »

I think they could play dice games with cup. It is harder to affect the unseen objects with telekinesis and you can't use that after the dices are stopped the moving and cup is removed. But I think that loroi wouldn't like much of games of pure luck as it can be seen tempting of fate and jinx. Coin or dice throwing could be still used in extreme situations to find out luckiest and sacrifices. Example, who could survive last in suicide missions, to give her the most important job.
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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by fredgiblet »

VonWolffe wrote:Looking at Talon's bio she is one of only two survivors of her squadron that have been in service for less than nine months. It's getting so bad that they have put her on shuttle duty just so that she can live long enough to train some new recruits, and she's only 13 years old. As a military man myself this blows my mind, I get that this is total war but being a sole survivor of a group of people that you know closely and trained with and came up into the military with would be devastating. I get that Stillstorm has had a very long time to collect battle scars, but to me Talon has yet to have the chance to harden herself to that kind of thing. If you wiped out 90% of my unit in front of me, as it would have been for her, it would certainly effect me.
But here's the other key difference. Stillstorm grew up in an era of unquestioned Loroi dominance, Talon grew up during a period of total war. I'm not saying it'll be EASY for Talon to accept the losses, but she's grown up her entire life knowing that losses were going to be high, Stillstorm didn't.

I would expect that Talon is far harder than Stillstorm was a year or two into the war.

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by VonWolffe »

fredgiblet wrote:But here's the other key difference. Stillstorm grew up in an era of unquestioned Loroi dominance, Talon grew up during a period of total war. I'm not saying it'll be EASY for Talon to accept the losses, but she's grown up her entire life knowing that losses were going to be high, Stillstorm didn't.

I would expect that Talon is far harder than Stillstorm was a year or two into the war.
I see where you are coming from fred, I suppose having that expectation would give someone a chance to steel themselves to what was coming. Having your instructor tell you that only a certain percentage of a graduating class will be alive at the end of the year or something like that (10% and there's three months left on that year).

I didn't mean to compare the two as though one had more to lose, it just seems to me that Talon's squadron is a special case. Or at least I hope it is. I hope that Tenoin are not getting blown away by the dozens every other day. Heck, how many did Talon lose in that last fight alone? And then you know that the point defense squadron are going to be kicking themselves for letting the Winter Tide sink.

Another question; How common is it for a Tenoin assigned to a point defense squadron to 'take one for the team' by flying into an incoming missile? You see it in movies all the time where they run out of ammo and all they've got left is their fighter plane, and when the alternative is the sinking of a ship with hundreds of people aboard... Is there a term that they would use for such a thing? 'Don't be a hero' or something along those lines?

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Re: Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

Post by JQBogus »

/Nitpick ON

Talon is actually the more senior of the two members of her squadron remaining, not the sole survivor. Given that the Tempest carries 8 fighters, that means that Talon's unit has suffered 75% losses, not 90%. Unless Tempest carries more than significantly more than 8 pilots for its 8 fighters.

Your point, of course, still stands. This is a nitpick :)

/Nitpick OFF

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