Page 134: For Science!

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novius
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by novius »

Zarya wrote:I like the blue elves and an element of romance / friendship may turn out to be super important for this story.

The Red Haired Harpy and the potentially untrustworthy Mizol clearly the lesser evil when compared to the Umiak. God forbid one of the other scout vessels already made contact with the Hierarchy, leading them back beyond the Empty Quarter to an almost defenceless Earth.
Every Loroi in this group seems to have her role cut out for her, it seems.

Beryl would be the one he could trust (and he already trusts very much, to actually allow her picking his brain) and, yes, possibly someone suitable for a deeper commitment. We'll just have to see where it leads, but after Babylon 5 I wouldn't flat out discount the possibility for mutual feelings to develop.

Tempo would be his counterpart in the diplomatic game. While he's pretty much forced in the role of representing Earth and the Humans, she did grow up with her preordained role. Even without her 'second line of work', Alex is well-advised to be on his toes around her since she has many more years of experience under her belt than he has. With her it would be a relationship based on professionalism, though not one of implicit trust.

Talon herself framed it best. With her, Alex would experience the accepting companionship of a squadmate in the field and having the connection only soldiers of similar rank would experience. That sort of inherent trust to have each other's back when things get hot.(*)

Fireblade is a bit of an enigma. She is portrayed as the 'lone wolf', and made her disdain towards Alex and the overall situation quite clear. Currently, the feeling is quite mutual (as evidenced with his charming moniker for her) and both seem to be satisfied to not to see each other more than absolutely necessary. She's the one he's most likely to strike sparks with, especially since the inexplicable ability he has to sense her might bring them onto collision course.

(*) Other movies and books which are more military SF I've read sometimes had squadmates share a bunk/bedroll/cot just en route to a major engagement to "relieve stress". Of course it was always frowned upon by regulations. Typically one of the two persons involved didn't come back from the battle, then. While the relation between Talon and Alex seems comparable, I don't expect to see that here....

boldilocks
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by boldilocks »

novius wrote: Fireblade is a bit of an enigma. She is portrayed as the 'lone wolf', and made her disdain towards Alex and the overall situation quite clear. Currently, the feeling is quite mutual (as evidenced with his charming moniker for her) and both seem to be satisfied to not to see each other more than absolutely necessary. She's the one he's most likely to strike sparks with, especially since the inexplicable ability he has to sense her might bring them onto collision course.
Does she have disdain for him, though? That seems like mostly conjecture based on Alex' likely biased interpretation of events.

novius wrote: Beryl ...

Tempo ...

Talon ...

Fireblade ...
And you forgot Spiral, the best waifu, and elite gambler.

raistlin34
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by raistlin34 »

We haven't read a single line from Fireblade (presumably because her caste disdain for verbal speaking). We don't know much about her personality, or how she feels about Alex.
At the very least, she is a soldier in the middle of a war, and Jardin is a total unknown. Considering how ofter Loroi relay on their senzai to know and anticipate their opponents, is east to understand how a single human can make Fireblade unease.

Arent
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by Arent »

boldilocks wrote: And you forgot Spiral, the best waifu, and elite gambler.
"It was all bleeding like red and making gurgle-gurgle sounds" :mrgreen:

novius
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by novius »

raistlin34 wrote:We haven't read a single line from Fireblade (presumably because her caste disdain for verbal speaking). We don't know much about her personality, or how she feels about Alex.
At the very least, she is a soldier in the middle of a war, and Jardin is a total unknown. Considering how ofter Loroi relay on their senzai to know and anticipate their opponents, is east to understand how a single human can make Fireblade unease.
Well, it starts in the elevator. Beryl did play with him the "good elf, bad elf" (Alex's words) spiel, but she still couldn't resist to showcase her little trick. And not in a gentle manner.

Second, she doesn't need to actually say something. These sidelong glances whenever he did a wisecrack are saying much more than words, as well as her keeping her distance as far as she could and still be fulfilling her duties as a bodyguard.

So yes, I'd say there is a good deal of distrust and antipathy between these two.

novius
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by novius »

boldilocks wrote:And you forgot Spiral, the best waifu, and elite gambler.
I didn't forget her. She isn't featured in the picture on the title page, so I do presume she might be a recurring character, but not one of Alexander Jardin's 'inner circle'.

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Arioch
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by Arioch »

Aardvark wrote:PS can anyone remember if the guards who accompanied him on the shuttle are the same guards who participated with Fireblade in the initial interrogation?
Nope, the two in the interrogation scene were also Unsheathed (Mothwing and Razorthorn), whereas the two currently in the shuttle are just ordinary Soroin troopers (Reed and Flint).
Scynix wrote:Alex/Beryl are such cute friends. And I mean FRIENDS. I don't understand the huge amount of resistance to it but can't they at least be 'really good friends'? Does everything have to be either detached Acquaintance or 'hey babe let's go to your room' fake romance?
They'd make such a cute 'We're partners!' pairing. Until redhead accidentally 'flings' alex out an airlock and the story ends anyways.
Ever since Alex seemed to get mad Beryl didn't visit him and she seemed legitimately sorry about it, I thought they would have made good partners.

Dunno why I see so many people here so against 'romance'. Just protecting each other is a kind of romance you know. It's a pretty open term that has been badly pigeon holed in recent years. I blame tinder.
I'd like to echo the sentiment that sexual relationships are not the only kind of relationships worth exploring in fiction. (Not that there's anything wrong with exploring sexual relationships in fiction.)
Scynix wrote:Really enjoying the story, Arioch. I've personally re-read the series 8! times since I first read it. I've always liked how relatable Alex was as a person. He seems like he's really trying this best in a crazy situation but he's also still clearly recognized how far in 'over his head' he is.
Thanks! That means a lot.

boldilocks
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by boldilocks »

Arioch wrote:(Not that there's anything wrong with exploring sexual relationships in fiction.)
Yeah, just extremely tacky most of the time.

Arent
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by Arent »

Arioch wrote: Thanks! That means a lot.
Ok, if it means a lot, I want to chime in & second that.

good points:

(1) Nice storyline, likeable characters
(2) Nicely designed world
(3) I like the art

bad points:

(1) As in many webcomics, the art evolves over time & your art right now is better than in the beginning.
(2) The characters did look a little stiff in the beginning but now it seems alright

Arent
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by Arent »

I just reread the beginning of Outsider & noticed that Alexander apparently could sense Fireblade even without skin contact to Beryl:

http://well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider018.html

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dragoongfa
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by dragoongfa »

boldilocks wrote:
Arioch wrote:(Not that there's anything wrong with exploring sexual relationships in fiction.)
Yeah, just extremely tacky most of the time.
Must be because humans cannot not think about sex. The primary directive of all life is to reproduce, animals just get in heat at set times of the year and they are fine; we humans are a little more... maniacal about it.

Scynix
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by Scynix »

Arioch wrote:I'd like to echo the sentiment that sexual relationships are not the only kind of relationships worth exploring in fiction. (Not that there's anything wrong with exploring sexual relationships in fiction.)
I cannot possibly emphasize in words how happy I am to see you say that.
Now even if nothing happens I can root for Alex and co to become best friends. WOO!
Except that mean redhead. MEAN.

@Arioch iunno if you'll answer because I can see how it might be a spoiler issue (as such it's of course fine if you can't) but speaking lore wise is there a difference between telekinetic and telepathic use? It was mentioned earlier in the story that redhead's people specifically develop their telekinetic skills. It doesn't seem like a coincidence the strong telekinetic that thwacked him around is the one Alex sensed.
dragoongfa wrote:Must be because humans cannot not think about sex. The primary directive of all life is to reproduce, animals just get in heat at set times of the year and they are fine; we humans are a little more... maniacal about it.
Recently this has been proven to mostly be a myth, but the misconception is still being spread.
The US joined the seriously declining national birth rates problem as of last year, and it's not because we aren't capable of it- it's simply that it isn't as high on the biological needs list as it used to be. When you make physical relationships (and reproduction by extension) arbitrary, people seek out alternate forms of biological satisfaction.

This is also why character relationships that build over time usually have a much better emotional pay off for the reader. People want connections with the characters. If we wanted arbitrary sexual encounters, Master Google provides an overabundance of that.
It's also why so many writers use the cliche fallback of arbitrarily killing off one of the 'bonded' characters, since it gives the perception of being a 'shocking development'. Except everyone does it, so... not so much.

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dragoongfa
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by dragoongfa »

Scynix wrote:
dragoongfa wrote:Must be because humans cannot not think about sex. The primary directive of all life is to reproduce, animals just get in heat at set times of the year and they are fine; we humans are a little more... maniacal about it.
Recently this has been proven to mostly be a myth, but the misconception is still being spread.
The US joined the seriously declining national birth rates problem as of last year, and it's not because we aren't capable of it- it's simply that it isn't as high on the biological needs list as it used to be. When you make physical relationships (and reproduction by extension) arbitrary, people seek out alternate forms of biological satisfaction.
Low birthrates doesn't equal lack of sexual activity, with modern contraceptives and the easy availability of abortions sex has never been more casual and carefree in our history as a species. It can be argued that certain people don't get any sex at all due to a variety of reasons but the general population is currently oversexed, either through having sex with their partners or by using the easily available alternatives.

Sex is no longer about reproduction but the instincts are still there, they are extremely powerful and they only get satisfied with sex or a sex like activity.

Highlord
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by Highlord »

We do have very long lasting legends, suppositions, and even official studies into psychic activity, after all.

My guess is that humans aren't entirely psi-blind. Just very non-sensitive, to the point that "regular" loroi can neither contact or sense us. Psionic battering rams like Fireblade, though, are powerful enough that a humans untried and very limited senses can pick them up.

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Arioch
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by Arioch »

Scynix wrote:iunno if you'll answer because I can see how it might be a spoiler issue (as such it's of course fine if you can't) but speaking lore wise is there a difference between telekinetic and telepathic use? It was mentioned earlier in the story that redhead's people specifically develop their telekinetic skills. It doesn't seem like a coincidence the strong telekinetic that thwacked him around is the one Alex sensed.
Yes, telepathy and telekinesis are related but distinctly different. All Loroi are telepathic to some degree, but only a few are telekinetic (most of whom are Teidar or Mizol).

More on these subjects:
Telepathy
Psychokinesis
Telepanty

novius
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by novius »

Highlord wrote:We do have very long lasting legends, suppositions, and even official studies into psychic activity, after all.

My guess is that humans aren't entirely psi-blind. Just very non-sensitive, to the point that "regular" loroi can neither contact or sense us. Psionic battering rams like Fireblade, though, are powerful enough that a humans untried and very limited senses can pick them up.
Telekinesis isn't the only thing that sets her apart.
  • She is the strongest of the lot, by far
  • She is the one instrumental in trying to mind-probe him, from the very start
  • Or maybe something not listed and so far never seen
Of course Beryl would be highly curious about the 'why', but I'm sure she won't like to have to include other Loroi in a test series. After all, she already displayed some degree of possessiveness and a smattering of jealousy...

In addition, I usually don't like the 'soulmate' trope, because it is often used as a cheap excuse to bypass the early stages of a relationship, simply saying "we belong together, so there" - if that doesn't sound 'creepy stalker', what would? But... being linked (read: chained) to that person he'd dislike most - and where the feeling is most probably mutual - could make for an interesting dynamics.

Still... no. That would be too cruel to poor Beryl for her to find out that he's meant for someone else :D

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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by fredgiblet »

boldilocks wrote:
novius wrote: Fireblade is a bit of an enigma. She is portrayed as the 'lone wolf', and made her disdain towards Alex and the overall situation quite clear. Currently, the feeling is quite mutual (as evidenced with his charming moniker for her) and both seem to be satisfied to not to see each other more than absolutely necessary. She's the one he's most likely to strike sparks with, especially since the inexplicable ability he has to sense her might bring them onto collision course.
Does she have disdain for him, though? That seems like mostly conjecture based on Alex' likely biased interpretation of events.
It's important to note that so far Fireblade has largely been responsible for keeping Alex from fucking up. In that capacity she can't be friendly or tender towards him. Simultaneously there's strong, albeit circumstantial, evidence that Fireblade isn't widely popular, so she probably behaves like that to everyone.

Might be that Alex is the person to crack her shell.

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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by fredgiblet »

novius wrote:Well, it starts in the elevator. Beryl did play with him the "good elf, bad elf" (Alex's words) spiel, but she still couldn't resist to showcase her little trick. And not in a gentle manner.
I believe that at one point Arioch explained the purpose(s) behind that.

Fireblade doesn't want to catch Alex for obvious reasons.
Fireblade CAN get out of his way.
BUT
Using her abilities shows him that she's not to be trifled with.

Remember that Alex wasn't exactly respectful when she came to him in his cell that first time. She NEEDS him to know that she can fuck him up, so that he doesn't make her actually DO it.
Scynix wrote:The US joined the seriously declining national birth rates problem as of last year, and it's not because we aren't capable of it- it's simply that it isn't as high on the biological needs list as it used to be. When you make physical relationships (and reproduction by extension) arbitrary, people seek out alternate forms of biological satisfaction.
A low birthrate doesn't provide evidence against a desire for sex, it just means that raising children is an undesirable risk/expense in the modern world. People are still fuckin'

Well, most people at least.
Arioch wrote:(most of whom are Teidar or Mizol).
Besides the obvious, lack of control and/or power, is there anything else that would prevent a telekinetic loroi from joining those castes?

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Arioch
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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by Arioch »

fredgiblet wrote:Besides the obvious, lack of control and/or power, is there anything else that would prevent a telekinetic loroi from joining those castes?
Failing to meet other requirements of the caste, including not being female or not being the daughter of warrior.

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Re: Page 134: For Science!

Post by Scynix »

fredgiblet wrote: A low birthrate doesn't provide evidence against a desire for sex, it just means that raising children is an undesirable risk/expense in the modern world. People are still (intercourse)
It actually very specifically does. Percentage wise all forms of prevention are a drop in the bucket compared to the normal birth rate we've seen for the last 30 years internationally.
I already PM'ed dragoongfa about this subject since I feel like it doesn't belong in this thread, but you seem to be a moderator as well? So I feel like I have to answer now?
I deeply apologize to everyone else for the conversation deviation. It wasn't my intention.

I'm not basing my comment about birth rates on something so crass, either.
There are a number of studies that have been conducted that indicate people are simply -doing it less- over all.

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Is+the+decline+in+ ... ing+sex%3F

And I mean *a number*. It's not just in the US, either. In Japan it seems to be connected to an increase in the desire for a stable career. In China it's due to an organized effort of population control, actively discouraging relations. In the US it seems to be a number of societal issues.
Unfortunately, the collective opinion seems to be "too much tinder/too many casual sex relationships" have dulled that desire. Personally, I wonder if that's also contributing to the rise in drug use as people seek a new form of escapism.

No matter what you may try to blame (condoms, abortions, 'desire to raise children in the modern world') these individual factors are simply too small of a percentage to have the impact that we're seeing globally.

People are just plain 'doing it less'. Doing it less == less people are born. There wasn't a sudden gigantic spike in protection usage, as nice as that would be to help protect people.

Edit: Don't misunderstand please, I'm not saying either of you are 'wrong'. In your own ways, you're still right- there are plenty of humans still that way. I'm just saying there's significantly more now that aren't, and romance between two characters can be more than just 'netflix&chill'. It can be real emotional bonding and does not require a physical component.

And to link this conversation back to my original comments:

This is entirely why, at least for me, I find stories that are about emotional bonds far more interesting.
When characters have more reason to like each other than "hey, you're a girl and I'm a guy" it leads to far more interesting developments.
I'm just hoping (our) English speaking writers/designers recognize this and start writing more stories like this.

It's part of the reason I'm super happy (and sadly super impatiently awaiting more chapters!) that Arioch said he agrees there are more relationships to explore than just sexual ones.

Crossing my fingers Beryl realizes there's something going on, goes totally psychic-yandere and pushes the redhead into a cargo cabinet then seals it before she taints Alex and ruins the cute pairing/Beryl's chances of experimenting with sansai on humans.
Arioch wrote: Yes, telepathy and telekinesis are related but distinctly different. All Loroi are telepathic to some degree, but only a few are telekinetic (most of whom are Teidar or Mizol).
Now I can't help but think humans have some latent, deep rooted 'sense' for telekinetic interactions. Or, the lack of interaction with species who had such abilities naturally 'dulled'/'created a psychic wall in' human minds. I'm very curious if Beryl could eventually push through given time/effort.

On the positive side should Alex decide to share that he could sense redhead (I wouldn't... who knows how they'd react?) this could indicate that eventually the Loroi will recognize humans aren't deliberately trying to block them.

I also get the impression Beryl seems to believe Alex's words now, without requiring any further probing. She doesn't seem to doubt him at all.

TL;D
Social science has indicated recently there is a rise in emotional/romantic bonds that have nothing to do with physical interaction.
Alex and Beryl make cute friends and I want to see more emotional development in their relationship.
Redhead is a meany. Beryl, strike first!
Arioch/Outsider is awesome and I can't wait for more.

Carry on.

Edit: Ugh... I feel like I wrote way too much... someone feel free to tell me in a pm if I did, and I'll delete it.

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