Page 155: But hang on...

[CrimsonFALKE]

So pocket historian is here to save the day? Okay great only issue is how will the Loroi handle this news? They know the historian can do this for shots and giggles in their software I doubt they will be pleased about this for long. Worse still what happens when they Google human internet history?

[entity2636]

Did the Historian admit to having infiltrated the Bellarmine's data banks before it was shot to smithereens, or did the Historian mean that it was in the data banks "recovered from" the Bellarmine? Little quibble, but the first wording is a touch ambiguous while the 2nd leaves no doubt that the Historian's first contact with human information technology was only after the Loroi recovered what "items of interest" they could from the wreck of Alex's former vessel.

I read it as the Historian VI was able to reverse engineer the hardware and software of human computers aboard the wreck of the Bellarmine and what was recovered from it. It mentions power-off intrusion, i.e. getting to the stored data while the system is physically off, possibly by means of a extremely high resolution scan of the storage devices and getting the physical representation of stored data (for example, state of transistors inside a Flash chip or magnetization directions of individual bits on the surface of a HDD), i.e. making a virtual model of the entire system, both hardware and software, without anyone noticing it.

[novius]

The construct just said that humanity's computers are more advanced than the rest of their technological base suggests.

In absolute terms it would still mean that by current Loroi (and Historian standards) the computers are still very much behind the curve, but only a bit less so than, say, propulsion technology.

And, the whole thing tells a bit about the relations between the Loroi Union member species. If there had been an open exchange of knowledge, the construct would have been asked in the spirit of cooperation to fleece the Bellarmine computer core to extract and share all valuable data - the Loroi have many reasons to assume that Historian AI's are very much capable of that.

Either Alex never got wind of such a deal, or it never happened, which is more likely, because everyone seems to have their own agenda and jealously guard their own knowledge.

Like, do I see some dissention in the ranks? That they don't always see eye to eye had become clear when Tempo cut off Ambassador Mozin, rather rudely, in http://www.well-of-souls.com/outsider/outsider065.html just as he was about to spill something she wouldn't want Alex to hear.

As it has been already said: "Nations don't have friends, they have interests."

[folti]

In 2019 (let alone 2160), it seems entirely possible that such a security flaw could have been put in on purpose by the manufacturer, which the Historians detected and exploited.

Not necessarily. It's more like an attack surface the human designers are not aware of, of at least with human technology, it's still in the realm of science fiction, so the designers have nothing firm to base their design on, nor it was really a design goal at all.

There is always a cut off point where you have to say, that preparing for that is not worth the cost, especially if the problem is still at best theoretical.

Did the Historian admit to having infiltrated the Bellarmine's data banks before it was shot to smithereens, or did the Historian mean that it was in the data banks "recovered from" the Bellarmine? Little quibble, but the first wording is a touch ambiguous while the 2nd leaves no doubt that the Historian's first contact with human information technology was only after the Loroi recovered what "items of interest" they could from the wreck of Alex's former vessel.

I read it as the Historian VI was able to reverse engineer the hardware and software of human computers aboard the wreck of the Bellarmine and what was recovered from it. It mentions power-off intrusion, i.e. getting to the stored data while the system is physically off, possibly by means of a extremely high resolution scan of the storage devices and getting the physical representation of stored data (for example, state of transistors inside a Flash chip or magnetization directions of individual bits on the surface of a HDD), i.e. making a virtual model of the entire system, both hardware and software, without anyone noticing it.

Probably during the salvage operation. Mozin's ship was nearby, and he could have his own agenda, or as a mercenary have been bribed by the construct.

[CrimsonFALKE]

Did the Historian admit to having infiltrated the Bellarmine's data banks before it was shot to smithereens, or did the Historian mean that it was in the data banks "recovered from" the Bellarmine? Little quibble, but the first wording is a touch ambiguous while the 2nd leaves no doubt that the Historian's first contact with human information technology was only after the Loroi recovered what "items of interest" they could from the wreck of Alex's former vessel.

I read it as the Historian VI was able to reverse engineer the hardware and software of human computers aboard the wreck of the Bellarmine and what was recovered from it. It mentions power-off intrusion, i.e. getting to the stored data while the system is physically off, possibly by means of a extremely high resolution scan of the storage devices and getting the physical representation of stored data (for example, state of transistors inside a Flash chip or magnetization directions of individual bits on the surface of a HDD), i.e. making a virtual model of the entire system, both hardware and software, without anyone noticing it.

It's able to make virtual copies of hard and software then simulate the running data perfectly. If so what the hell are you doing letting the Loroi run the war effort? Or why not infiltrate the Shell's battle computer network.

[Werra]

The other species presumably have a better understanding of power-off hacking prevention.

The Loroi do right, distrusting the Historians. They've been begrudging allies for merely a decade. It's clear that they hate having to rely on Loroi.

Do you think the Historian knows about Alex resistance? It seems so or he would have to assume that the Loroi can get any information out of him, if need be.

[Mr.Tucker]

I take it the pocket historian is relaying info using the container, rather than the pad. Because the pad can only communicate using radio waves, which would be detected.
Point 2: The historian did not just analyse the memory of the Pad, he reprogrammed it. So simple atomic analysis is not enough, he needs some way to affect a closed box from a distance. Possibly using some form of EM induction to make different circuits do things. Yikes! That's some mongo advanced tech.

I'll echo the question asked before: did he sift through the Bell's databases before or after contact with the Loroi? Because before could mean it was either already present on the ship, or present on the unseen attacker. I have difficulty believing anything as fragile as memory banks would survive that huge explosion (was it chemical?)

If after, it shows they are quite capable of doing things behind the Lorois' back.

[Mr.Tucker]

Some other points:
1) Soooo...the Historians can use a form of communication that is technological and non-radiative... How much are ya' willin' to bet it's superluminal as well?

2) Sooo.... is the thing's brain inside the vessel, or inside the pad? Is that Pad a mere fragment, meant to imitate a proper construct's function, like a VI, or is it a proper thinking machine like the construct itself? I have a hard time imagining a pad's processor being that powerful (though, I would have a hard time imagining what a smartphone could do 10 years ago....)

[jbay]

Since the historian has a physical presence quite close by, it could have directly flipped bits in the pad's memory one at a time by targeting the transistors (or 22nd century equivalent) with particles similar to cosmic rays. With sufficient targeting precision, this basically gives it open write access to the memory without any detectable far-field radio signature. Reading back the state of the memory that way would probably be harder, but if you have write access then you can write a low-level bug that will quietly leak data back to you by one of the pad's near-field communications peripherals, blinking an LED, etc.

[entity2636]

Some other points:
1) Soooo...the Historians can use a form of communication that is technological and non-radiative... How much are ya' willin' to bet it's superluminal as well?

I wouldn't be surprised at all if it was superluminal and undetectable by "industry standards" of the other nations. Could be some sort of quantum entanglement (a technological version of how I personally like to think Loroi natural telepathy works) or sub/hyperspace radio (if noone of the major players have invented it, it doesn't mean it's impossible and someone else might have it already)

2) Sooo.... is the thing's brain inside the vessel, or inside the pad? Is that Pad a mere fragment, meant to imitate a proper construct's function, like a VI, or is it a proper thinking machine like the construct itself? I have a hard time imagining a pad's processor being that powerful (though, I would have a hard time imagining what a smartphone could do 10 years ago....)

I think (a) the Historian Emissary is inside the can, that is, it's program is running on the computer inside the can that also has a holoprojector on the top; (b) that it's not a true, "unshackled" AI in, say, Mass Effect terms, but rather a VI that's running inside set limits. I also don't believe it's sentient beyond it knowing it's a construct; and (c) it wrote a scaled down version of itself, not unlike a present day chat bot, directly into the memory of the tablet so it could relay the required info to Alex and answer some basic questions. I'm sure it's aware of the tablet's processing power and how much can be done on such hardware.

[icekatze]

hi hi

I'm not sure the historian's transmissions need to be superluminal or non-radiative, as long as they're sufficiently narrow/focused. I wouldn't expect Human or Loroi tech to be able to pull it off, assuming that detection and transmission technologies advance roughly alongside each other. Like, a stream of single photons that have unusual properties could do it, but you'd need excellent detector technology to pick them up.

Given the paranoia the Historians seem to have about outsiders, I'd say there are better than even odds that the Historian Construct is not much like real life Historians. I would imagine they'd only put the absolute minimum necessary into the construct to prevent having any secrets stolen. And any necessary information would probably be given up front, being necessary and all.

I don't remember specifics, but I understand that the Historians themselves aren't AI. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on that, but I get the feeling that if they do have unshackled AI, they probably don't let it run around outside of their supervision.

[novius]

The "Pocket Historian" did say that "this construct has been uploaded to give you this message" - so it means that it is sort of a cut down version, much like a glorified postman and maybe just able to do some rote-response dialogue.

So the original construct indeed can make copies of itself, and tailor them to specific needs (especially the target hardware) and purposes, but what Alex has on this pad would by no means be the "original" one. That may still reside in the holoprojector can, or on the Prophet's Reason.

Given that on Tempest's bridge it said that is present via a remote connection I'd wager it used the holoprojector's systems as a relay to first look around in Bellarmine's data banks and then upload the "Pocket Historian" to the pad.