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Page 156: Dun... dun... DUUUUUUN 
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Post Page 156: Dun... dun... DUUUUUUN
Poor Alex.


Sun May 26, 2019 6:27 pm
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Post Re: Page 156: Dun... dun... DUUUUUUN
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What do you have there, Alex ?

Imagine that Beryl is using the same tone as your mother does when she catchs you doing something you shoudn't be doing.


Sun May 26, 2019 6:53 pm
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Post Re: Page 156: Dun... dun... DUUUUUUN
Great body language and expressive pose there, Alex looks anything but completely calm and relaxed.


Sun May 26, 2019 7:44 pm
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Post Re: Page 156: Dun... dun... DUUUUUUN
hi hi

Welp, that's about as bad as it could have gone. Although, depending on what Alex says next, it could certainly get worse for him.

I'm not sure if I'd trust the historian, but I'm pretty sure that if he lies to Beryl, she's never going to forget it. (I mean, beyond the fact that she has perfect recall memory.) Alex may be in grave danger, but giving Beryl reason to regret giving him leeway the first possible chance he got... probably not a good move either.


Sun May 26, 2019 7:46 pm
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Post Re: Page 156: Dun... dun... DUUUUUUN
No way it would happen, but the best possible outcome would be for him to spin around the tablet, showing the Historian construct, and simply ask, "Beryl, what the f--- is this and what is it doing on one of our data pads? These are your allies, right?"

Complete disclosure and denial of any subversive activity in one fell swoop.

Of course, if the Loroi really are out to get him...


Sun May 26, 2019 8:39 pm
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Post Re: Page 156: Dun... dun... DUUUUUUN
He could say space grumpy cat died


Sun May 26, 2019 9:12 pm
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Post Re: Page 156: Dun... dun... DUUUUUUN
Haha, the classical trust no one :geek: the question is - should he rather trust the historians?


Sun May 26, 2019 9:47 pm
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Post Re: Page 156: Dun... dun... DUUUUUUN
Yeah, I'm gonna have to agree with orion on this. In my life.. even among my enemies...'Truth has Always been my shield'. Lies are ignoble and pander to the worse in mankind. Sometimes.. you got to take that leap of faith and follow your gut instincts... clearly Beryl has tried to protect Alex, and been as truthful in all things that she can... I'm sure hse has never lied to Alex.. he should trust her!

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Sun May 26, 2019 9:50 pm
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Post Re: Page 156: Dun... dun... DUUUUUUN
hi hi

orion1836 wrote:
... These are your allies, right?"
Even if Alex doesn't explicitly state that the Historian is on his PAD up front, asking some loaded questions might not be such a bad idea either. Enough to let Beryl know that something happened, while still playing dumb about the specifics.

If I was there, I might go with something like, "This is my PAD. Also, is it normal for this canister to make weird noises?" And try to get more information out of the situation that way. (Although, I would be a terrible choice for such a mission, so there's that.)

From our perspective as an audience, with insider knowledge about the Loroi, their history and all of that, the Historian construct's warning message is a little bit concerning, but not in the way it intended. While it isn't a smoking gun, it does slightly raise the plausibility of some "the Historians are behind it all," theories. I'm not quite sure why the construct is trying to drive a wedge between Alex and the Loroi, but I'll be really surprised if Beryl and Talon turn out to be villains. (From a narrative point of view.)

From Alex's point of view, the warning has got to be disconcerting for a variety of other reasons. Not least of which being that his daring choice of picking the Loroi based on how they treat their allies is starting to look more suspect. If even the Loroi's own allies are working at odds with them, it doesn't bode well for anything.


Sun May 26, 2019 9:58 pm
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Post Re: Page 156: Dun... dun... DUUUUUUN
Possibly a way to cover is to go with the content on the datapad hitting him harder than he thought it would, and allude to having possibly read old entries from his crewmates. Not outright lying, in fact being technically truthful but making sure not to spill the beans about the construct.


Sun May 26, 2019 10:13 pm
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Post Re: Page 156: Dun... dun... DUUUUUUN
He can just say that he was looking for information about attack on bellarmine.


Sun May 26, 2019 10:15 pm
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Post Re: Page 156: Dun... dun... DUUUUUUN
"Everyone is lying for his own benefit. Including you."

Words to live by. And a good measure whether Alex should trust the construct's words and motivations as well. Or rather not.

Alex is already aware that Tempo seems to withhold information from him, and that there's definitely more to the whole situation than what it appears to be at the first glance.

Though, closely reading the construct's words I notice that it said "The Loroi are NOT your friends." rather than "These Loroi are NOT your friends."

There's a difference in semantics. This way of wording speaks of the Loroi as a whole, the other one (with 'these') would have spoken of the individual Loroi on the shuttle. So it's much like "pick your friends carefully, but do not trust anyone adhering to the 'official' line of thinking".

I think that Alex might show the working pad to Beryl as soon as the construct hid its presence in its systems (I'm sure it will remove itself from the display one tenth of second second after it picked up Beryl's voice over the microphone) and continue trying to build a rapport with her and maybe Talon... and stay rather cautious around Tempo and far away from Fireblade.

Given the name of the comic, I further think that it doesn't refer to Alex alone, but that something is to happen that sets everyone on the shuttle apart from their respective societies.For example, Tempo getting a healthy dose of realism which may actually have her rethink the Loroi Union politics.

The interactions between Tempo and Stillstorm and the events on the bridge, especially their hasty egress, tell us (and Alex) that there seem to be some power plays running along. Maybe Tempo's interfrence spared Alex from a much grimmer fate than being put back in the brig, but that doesn't mean that she had a much kinder one in stock for him.

So that construct's message is only yet another indication that there are quite deep fractures within the Union, and within the Loroi as a species and political entity.


Last edited by novius on Sun May 26, 2019 11:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun May 26, 2019 11:05 pm
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Post Re: Page 156: Dun... dun... DUUUUUUN
Interesting turn of events, that's for sure. And, honestly, an angry Beryl kind of scares me more than an angry Fireblade, Tempo or any other soldier or officer. Dunno why...

I'm with Boldi and Zorg regarding how to act in this situation. Saying that it's his pad would not work since Beryl can read English and Alex's name almost certainly isn't shown on the screen (aside from the email addressed to him by the VI).

@Novius - good point. So far we have seen at least 3 of the 5 officers present to protect Alex and make it so the rest of the Loroi can't directly harm or dispose of him.


Sun May 26, 2019 11:24 pm
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Post Re: Page 156: Dun... dun... DUUUUUUN
The mail wasn't even addressed to Alex by name, but by the given moniker. Though I'm pretty sure that both Tempo and Beryl would piece it together, since he explained the meaning of his name on Tempest's bridge. In retrospect, if Beryl sees a message addressed "To Alex" or "To Ensign Jardin", she might not think twice about it, especially since they wouldn't know that this message has been sent after the destruction of the Bellarmine, but this way of addressing him only made sense after they got to know about his name on the Tempest. And, it would be a very short list of people (in the widest sense of meaning) who would address him like that.

Maybe it was a fluke on the construct's part to put it in these words that made the message header even more suspicious. Or it thought that the benefits (more likely to garner Alex's attention) outweigh the drawbacks (suspicious if it falls into the hands of a Loroi who can read English).

Though, as said, I'm pretty sure the construct could do a very good impression of "nothing to see here, move along", especially to people unfamiliar with these specific devices.


Sun May 26, 2019 11:39 pm
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Post Re: Page 156: Dun... dun... DUUUUUUN
boldilocks wrote:
Possibly a way to cover is to go with the content on the datapad hitting him harder than he thought it would, and allude to having possibly read old entries from his crewmates. Not outright lying, in fact being technically truthful but making sure not to spill the beans about the construct.
With the pants halfway down, just be quick in opening the p*** folder, any image, and pretend she caught you red-handed.

Then she'll just assume Humaniti's males are closer to Loroi male than originally pretended....
And she'll be happy, that arrangements are sufficient if a secluded room and this pad are provided.
Bonus point for Alex and Pocket Historian: more time for themselves.

Pretty sure, once the Construct gets the idea, it can hide itself behind a p-image whenever it has the feeling of them being watched.


also, it seems this Historian is doing its best to get Alex into the hands of the Barsam.
And the Barsam are (religious) pacifists.
Best choice for Humaniti, weren't it that the Barsam are closely tied with the Loroi, and the Barsam are dependent on the military protection the Loroi provide.

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Last edited by Krulle on Sun May 26, 2019 11:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sun May 26, 2019 11:53 pm
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Post Re: Page 156: Dun... dun... DUUUUUUN
Given the broader history we know of out-of-comic, and the difference between the way the historian treats Alex here and how it treated the Loroi on the bridge, this strikes me as much more likely an attempt to sabotage relations between humanity and the Loroi than any earnest attempt to protect Alex.

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Sun May 26, 2019 11:57 pm
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Post Re: Page 156: Dun... dun... DUUUUUUN
Tempo did tell Alex that every [member species] of the Union would rather use him and the political implications of his presence for their own benefit. The Historians were always been rather reluctant allies to the Union, ever since the Umiak started to encroach into Historian space, and they still hold some secrets from the rest of the Union at a whole.

So yes, the construct may intend to play Alex into Barsam hands, for their discontent (as shown by Ambassador Mozin on the Tempest) would very well play into destabilizing the Union and loosening the hold the Loroi have over it.

Given that the Prophet's Reason followed SG51 all the way from Naam to Leido Crossroads, it really looks much like a manhunt with Alex being the target.


Mon May 27, 2019 12:05 am
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Post Re: Page 156: Dun... dun... DUUUUUUN
Beryl can't read English, exactly -- at least not yet. She knows those letters that Alex wrote down the Trade equivalents for, and she's clever enough to recognize some words she's heard aloud (such as "Bellarmine" and "Jardin") and to sound out words for which she knows the letters, but she has no way yet of knowing what they mean. But it's true that she can remember what she sees, and may be able to put things together later.

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Mon May 27, 2019 12:09 am
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Post Re: Page 156: Dun... dun... DUUUUUUN
And, it's noteworthy that the construct instructed Alex to not to ask any questions not pertaining to his immediate survival.

So the game of withholding information is not just played by Tempo alone. Seems that about everyone fears someone else telling Alex what he should not hear. For example, Beryl might be quick to tell him that the Historians are more like reluctant allies within the Union, as soon as Alex poses a rather noncommital question about the Union's species. Tempo on the other hand might be a bit more reluctant to offer any piece of information that paints the Union in a less than positive light.


Mon May 27, 2019 12:28 am
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Post Re: Page 156: Dun... dun... DUUUUUUN
If Alex is keeping a tally, he would see that more and more reasons stack up against the Loroi. Starting out with the major assault underway, and the internal strife the Union seems to display.

Once he comes to the decision that the Loroi Union might NOT be the best bet for humanity at a whole, the logical choice would be to break radio silence.

Even if the nearest Umiak vessel would blow the shuttle right out of space, he could bank on the possibility that another scout ship would bring back an Umiak envoy rather than a Loroi one.

He definitely needs a good reason to continue holding the flag for the Loroi.


Mon May 27, 2019 12:39 am
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Post Re: Page 156: Dun... dun... DUUUUUUN
Well, seeing how the Umiak work, I don't think their hegemonial space would provided positives where the Loroi Union has negatives.
I actually think that any alternative-Alex in Umiak hands would find reasons stacking against tehe Umiak about as fast, likely even faster.

If you overtax your economy, sometime it WILL break down.
We simply don't know how close they are to that point, nor if they are struggling with rebelious "client states", or if their internal hierarchy is prone to coups, and therefore inherently instable.

Ant hives only work well, because the workers and guards are DUMB.
Yes, they work relentlessly for the greater good of the hive, but all on instinct.
And also only because they're all siblings/clones of each other.
They cannot come up with innovative ways to improve life within the hive.
Therefore they are a very stagnant society.

Furthermore, often ant hives are fiercly competitive, constantly verging war with each other, over food sources, best shelters, ....

And with the Umiak it also seems like they're able to adapt technology, and even make improvements to the technology they adapted to their use, but so far I've seen no indication in the insider that they're able to really innovate technology themselves.
Which is also an indication for a stagnant society.
Sooner or later they will hit road-blocks.
But due to sheer numbers, they might be able to hold on to power in their sector for quite a long while, which will also mean suppressing technology to prevent others from winning the tech-race...

[edit: spoilered due to mere speculation, imposing perceived Earth-norms on Aliens, which may result in completely false assumptions regarding the Aliens]
Spoiler: show
It may well be that they have several "queens", and hives, with fierce internal competition, and the queens being smart enough to innovate (but occupied defending their standing within the society, backstabbing other queens). And the queens compete with each other for central power, and some of them building their power base by attacking neighbouring states to use their economic power to improve the standing towards the central power.
If such is the case, then the umiak might get serious troubles if a hive along the border breaks down...

But this is all speculation, and may comprise a severe, and dangerous, case of antropomorphisation.

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Mon May 27, 2019 1:16 am
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Post Re: Page 156: Dun... dun... DUUUUUUN
Yeaaa...there's definitely something fishy here and it's too early to tell which of the two is lying. I think that it's just as likely that the Historian is manipulating Alex, just as its race had and probably is still manipulating both sides of the war for their own motive/benefits.


Mon May 27, 2019 1:23 am
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Post Re: Page 156: Dun... dun... DUUUUUUN
volrath77 wrote:
Yeaaa...there's definitely something fishy here and it's too early to tell which of the two is lying. I think that it's just as likely that the Historian is manipulating Alex, just as its race had and probably is still manipulating both sides of the war for their own motive/benefits.


And this is one of the moments Cpt. Hamilton alluded to before the launch of the Bellarmine - where Alex has to make a snap decision on whether he places his trust into the words of the construct, or in the Loroi, or maybe just in that specific Loroi right in front of him.


Mon May 27, 2019 1:48 am
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Post Re: Page 156: Dun... dun... DUUUUUUN
Looks like Historians want to Alex being dumb and ignorant and not friends with Loroi.

Perfect for being captured and brainwashed by group, who might think that would end the war by offering the loroi for the umiak into goldplate as peace offering.
Or keep the war going on for their own businesses.

Though other hand, the Loroi are psychic and we got only their word of not being able to read/detect our minds.
Now think what if they are able to alter our perceptions of themselves. Something familiar but still distinctively different.
Then play good cop & bad cop while having the prisoner contained but constantly changing the conditions of the "game".

Kind of like Maze runner or The Signal.

Then some overextended paranoia would be preferred.

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Mon May 27, 2019 2:00 am
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Post Re: Page 156: Dun... dun... DUUUUUUN
bunnyboy wrote:
Though other hand, the Loroi are psychic and we got only their word of not being able to read/detect our minds.
Now think what if they are able to alter our perceptions of themselves. Something familiar but still distinctively different.
Then play good cop & bad cop while having the prisoner contained but constantly changing the conditions of the "game".


If you go that route, it could go on for quite some time, the situation getting even more and more worse, until Alex sees himself being blown up in the shuttle or whereever he is...

... only to find himself on an examination table with Fireblade pulling her hand away from him, and realizing that everything that happened since he thought to have been brought onboard the Tempest had been a giant mindfck. After all, seeing Fireblade in that telepathy experiment (inside the mindrape) could have already been an indication that there's more at play.


Mon May 27, 2019 2:04 am
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