Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

[SVlad]

If it's a social stigma, do Loroi have civil / warrior segregation?

[gaerzi]

Would someone like this who can potentially make incredible contributions be allowed to have offspring?

It's already been said that civilians can be allowed to have offspring when they are powerful and influential enough and that you can have things like merchant dynasties because of that. So... yes?

Would a male loroi with this level of expertise be more valuable for being a reproductor or for their skill?

Reproduction isn't a full-time job, male loroi do have other occupations that they train for.

[Arioch]

If a civilian possesses an unusual amount of expertise in a critical field (think people who can start revolutions in their fields of work), how much respect can they garner socially, compared to those in the military? Would someone like this who can potentially make incredible contributions be allowed to have offspring? Would a male loroi with this level of expertise be more valuable for being a reproductor or for their skill?

Commerce is exclusively a civilian field, and so the heads of huge multinational corporations will be civilians, who will have significant wealth, power and social standing. Such Loroi can and sometimes do earn reproductive privileges.

Social standing is also important for males, both in terms of their own social circle and in terms of who they are mated with. High ranking females prefer to be mated with high status males, both for their own social status and for getting the best male genes for their offspring. Male social status is affected by their genetic pedigree, social connections, excellence in their professional field and personal fame or celebrity.

If it's a social stigma, do Loroi have civil / warrior segregation?

Yes. Loroi warriors don't interact much with civilians unless it's part of their job. It's very similar to class divisions in humans society, such as in Britain during the industrial age: the upper class moved in a completely different social circle than the working class. Civilians aren't Untouchables, and the warrior class has its own internal hierarchy; a warrior (especially a low-ranking one) may interact with civilians on a regular basis as part of their daily routine or as part of their job, but to invite a civilian to warrior social function or to be known buddies with a civilian could negatively impact the warrior's social status.

[Snoofman]

If a civilian possesses an unusual amount of expertise in a critical field (think people who can start revolutions in their fields of work), how much respect can they garner socially, compared to those in the military? Would someone like this who can potentially make incredible contributions be allowed to have offspring? Would a male loroi with this level of expertise be more valuable for being a reproductor or for their skill?

I believe it has been shared that civilians can pay for a mating encounter at the right price, but its a hefty one. If I remember correctly the cost is the equivalent of paying to be part of the world’s most luxurious golf club.

I would imagine that there has to be some level of cooperation between civies and warriors. I’m sure warriors are prideful, but if a civilian comes forward with something of value that the empire could use, I don’t think all the warriors will be so prideful as to turn it away if they have few options.

[gaerzi]

Besides, the military isn't autarkic. A soldier's still got to eat, they may have military cooks on their spaceships to prepare on-board meals, but do they have military farmers who harvest crops? Are their missiles produced in military factories where military workers assemble the warheads, using metal sheets forged by military metalworkers, using ore extracted by military miners? Are there military truckers to transport stuff from the production points to the factories? Basically, unless they entirely duplicate the civilian society and thus spend like 95% of their personnel on non-combat tasks, they have to work with the civilians. As a result you can expect them to have their own military-industrial complex, with project owners on the military side and project managers on the civilian side.

[Arioch]

I'm not sure whether it's amusing, sad, hopeful or depressing that human beings in 2021 seem to have such hard time imagining how a class system works, when humanity has lived under some kind of class system for the vast majority of recorded history (to say nothing of prehistory), and much of humanity still lives in such a system.

The fact that an English gentleman in 1800's Britain was totally dependent on the food and goods produced by the lower classes did not in any way affect his disdain for those he perceived as lower than himself.

[Mk_C]

I'm not sure whether it's amusing, sad, hopeful or depressing that human beings in 2021 seem to have such hard time imagining how a class system works

All of the above.

[boldilocks]

I'm not sure whether it's amusing, sad, hopeful or depressing that human beings in 2021 seem to have such hard time imagining how a class system works, when humanity has lived under some kind of class system for the vast majority of recorded history (to say nothing of prehistory), and much of humanity still lives in such a system.

The fact that an English gentleman in 1800's Britain was totally dependent on the food and goods produced by the lower classes did not in any way affect his disdain for those he perceived as lower than himself.

Or a doctor disdaining a laborer. That happens even today. I think it's unrealistic to consider the kind of people who are doctors and the kind of people who are laborers to not be in different classes.

[Mk_C]

I think it's unrealistic to consider the kind of people who are doctors and the kind of people who are laborers to not be in different classes.

There are numerous countries where an average fully-licenced medical practitioner earns less than an average construction worker. Which sorta DOES put them in different classes.

[inxsi]

I think it's unrealistic to consider the kind of people who are doctors and the kind of people who are laborers to not be in different classes.

There are numerous countries where an average fully-licenced medical practitioner earns less than an average construction worker. Which sorta DOES put them in different classes.

See also jokes about lawyers hiring plumbers who bill more than the lawyer per hour.

I think this is one of the issues about class that people forget due to the way class is discussed. A class system may not exclusively be about money. To my understanding, there have been plenty of historical societies with poor nobles who would still view themselves as better than the wealthy non-nobles. Likewise, the wealthy non-nobles often wanted to use their wealth to get into the nobility because without a title, they would forever be in a lower social class, even if it is a higher class than the non-wealthy non-nobles.

[inxsi]

Why did the civilian population expand during the golden age on Deinar? What started the New World Conflict period on Deinar being fought over?

[Arioch]

Why did the civilian population expand during the golden age on Deinar? What started the New World Conflict period on Deinar being fought over?

Arran had a sort of "Pax Romana"; a lengthy period of peace during which they focused on great civil engineering projects. Arran expanded reproductive permissions for civilians to expand the available work force.

The old world nations had established colonies on the western continent. Arran began to expand their colonial territory by annexing and conquering the "native" Login settlements, and Zaral's colonies began doing the same. There followed a series of proxy wars between them until the last of the unaligned states were squeezed out and the borders became settled.

[Dan Wyatt]

Why did the civilian population expand during the golden age on Deinar? What started the New World Conflict period on Deinar being fought over?

The old world nations had established colonies on the western continent. Arran began to expand their colonial territory by annexing and conquering the "native" Login settlements, and Zaral's colonies began doing the same. There followed a series of proxy wars between them until the last of the unaligned states were squeezed out and the borders became settled.

So...What happened with the Logins? Were they wiped out like the American Indian tribes? Do some of them still exist or were they subsumed into the Arran population?

[boldilocks]

I think it's unrealistic to consider the kind of people who are doctors and the kind of people who are laborers to not be in different classes.

There are numerous countries where an average fully-licenced medical practitioner earns less than an average construction worker. Which sorta DOES put them in different classes.

See also jokes about lawyers hiring plumbers who bill more than the lawyer per hour.

I think this is one of the issues about class that people forget due to the way class is discussed. A class system may not exclusively be about money. To my understanding, there have been plenty of historical societies with poor nobles who would still view themselves as better than the wealthy non-nobles. Likewise, the wealthy non-nobles often wanted to use their wealth to get into the nobility because without a title, they would forever be in a lower social class, even if it is a higher class than the non-wealthy non-nobles.

Peasants, laborers and nobility disdained the middle class and merchants, even as the merchants became wealthier than the nobility.
The concept of the ruling class is functionally no different today than it was 3 centuries ago. It's not as if it's that much easier for a peasant of today to become a president or prime minister than it was for him to become a count or a king. All we've really changed is that the ruling class gets to tell themselves that they live in a meritocracy and that they therefore got where they are due to merit.

[gaerzi]

The fact that an English gentleman in 1800's Britain was totally dependent on the food and goods produced by the lower classes did not in any way affect his disdain for those he perceived as lower than himself.

My point was more about the question of segregation that was raised. Segregation implies parallel societies that do not mix. Your English gentleman from 1800 lived in a manor along with many, many servants, he interacted with his "lessers" every day even if just to give them tasks to do.

All we've really changed is that the ruling class gets to tell themselves that they live in a meritocracy and that they therefore got where they are due to merit.

If you look at the etymology of "aristocracy", you'll find out that even that hasn't changed...

[Arioch]

Why did the civilian population expand during the golden age on Deinar? What started the New World Conflict period on Deinar being fought over?

The old world nations had established colonies on the western continent. Arran began to expand their colonial territory by annexing and conquering the "native" Login settlements, and Zaral's colonies began doing the same. There followed a series of proxy wars between them until the last of the unaligned states were squeezed out and the borders became settled.

So...What happened with the Logins? Were they wiped out like the American Indian tribes? Do some of them still exist or were they subsumed into the Arran population?

The Western Login nations were annexed or conquered; the inhabitants weren't exterminated. It's very much analogous to the conflicts in the Americas between the European colonial powers (except at TL6-7).

Login is an ethnicity; there are also majority Login nations on the main continent (Mestirot).

[Cthulhu]

The Western Login nations were annexed or conquered; the inhabitants weren't exterminated. It's very much analogous to the conflicts in the Americas between the European colonial powers (except at TL6-7).

Login is an ethnicity; there are also majority Login nations on the main continent (Mestirot).

How big was the tech gap, then? Were the natives truly primitive, and if so, why?

Also, what kind of social/governmental structures did the western states have?

[Arioch]

The Western Login nations were annexed or conquered; the inhabitants weren't exterminated. It's very much analogous to the conflicts in the Americas between the European colonial powers (except at TL6-7).

Login is an ethnicity; there are also majority Login nations on the main continent (Mestirot).

How big was the tech gap, then? Were the natives truly primitive, and if so, why?

Also, what kind of social/governmental structures did the western states have?

The western continent (Bestemis) is a narrow strip of mountainous land that snakes from the equator north to above the arctic circle. There were a variety of cultures among the "native" Login (the inhabitants came over from what is now Ginazaigo during Age of Chaos), from nomadic hunter gatherers in the barren north to agricultural city-states in the south.

The highest level of technology was TL2 (Iron age). They progressed at a different rate from the Mestirot cultures simply because they were isolated. There are a lot of theories as to why the various Earth cultures progressed at different rates in different regions, but I think it's simply that cultures develop according to the local conditions and competition. Similar to how animal populations evolve along different paths when isolated from other populations.

[kfcroc18]

Have the Loroi ever used something like 'bomb sniffing dogs' in their military?

[Quickdraw101]

Have the Loroi ever used something like 'bomb sniffing dogs' in their military?

They never really had any equivalent of a dog, or really any type of domesticated animal. If they wanted to find bombs, they'd need tech to find it.