Writing Prompts

[Werra]

Manipulator limps aren't necessary for the Pol to be a threat. Especially if a mesmerising telepathy is part of the hunting strategy.

[novius]

Common tropes have it that aquatic races usually don't have manipulator limbs. And lacking those in addition to other difficulties when trying to build up a civilization and development to sapience - try to discover fire, for example - they're usually depicted as having developed a different path and gaining outstanding psionic abilities. Either to directly manipulate their environs using tele- or pyrokinesis, for example, or to subdue landbound servitor races.

And given that they must have come into contact with the Loroi (and humans), in addition that both races don't paint them in a favourable picture, the latter idea - formidable mind powers to subdue/influence someone - sounds logical.

Sure, given the Soia, we'd usually talk about Intelligent Design rather than evolution, but first, even 100k is not 'nothing' on an evolutionary time scale, and second, the Soia took examples from evolution and might have come to the same conclusion.

Food for thought - given what Alex encountered, if he ever relates his experiences, the "Intelligent Design" faction amongst humans would get lots of upwind, too...

[dragoongfa]

SpoilerShow

In the case of the Loroi the Legend of Tempest portrays the Bedein as a people/spirits who carried out justified 'vengeance' at the behest of Tempest; as if they were the ones being controlled not the opposite. In the tune of the Soia deciding to dispose of the 'beta prototype' that were the Loroi but the beta took control of a weapons grade end product and fucked everything up.

I can also see the 'no manipulator limbs' angle as possible but it is quite a disembarkation from the human folklore about mermaids and the depiction of the legend of Tempest. I think that there needs to be some distinct humanoid elements on them in order for the connections to be made between Mermaids and the Bedein. Depends on what the plausible angle for their creation would be, the Loroi being a police force is the most probable imho angle but the Pol? Psionic testbed aside there seem to be scantily few aquatic sapient races, out of all the races only the Pipolsid qualify and they are glorified jellyfishes. If the ratio of terrestrial sapient to aquatic sapient races is generally the same as the existing races of the local bubble then there wouldn't be much of a need to create an aquatic police force.

What if the Pol were meant to be some short of fallback failsafe in addition to the Loroi to prevent a catastrophe? Most habitable planets seem to have large bodies of water and as such having an aquatic subject race present on all worlds would serve as a stabilizing factor, especially if they could telepathically monitor the general disposition of the planet without being in a precarious position (due to being aquatic + having a Lotai) in case of a successful rebellion or even an invasion by a third party. Thinking about it, such an aquatic race would need to be able to have some basic tool use if that was what they were intended to do.

[Jethreuel]

SpoilerShow

In the case of the Loroi the Legend of Tempest portrays the Bedein as a people/spirits who carried out justified 'vengeance' at the behest of Tempest; as if they were the ones being controlled not the opposite. In the tune of the Soia deciding to dispose of the 'beta prototype' that were the Loroi but the beta took control of a weapons grade end product and fucked everything up.

I can also see the 'no manipulator limbs' angle as possible but it is quite a disembarkation from the human folklore about mermaids and the depiction of the legend of Tempest. I think that there needs to be some distinct humanoid elements on them in order for the connections to be made between Mermaids and the Bedein. Depends on what the plausible angle for their creation would be, the Loroi being a police force is the most probable imho angle but the Pol? Psionic testbed aside there seem to be scantily few aquatic sapient races, out of all the races only the Pipolsid qualify and they are glorified jellyfishes. If the ratio of terrestrial sapient to aquatic sapient races is generally the same as the existing races of the local bubble then there wouldn't be much of a need to create an aquatic police force.

What if the Pol were meant to be some short of fallback failsafe in addition to the Loroi to prevent a catastrophe? Most habitable planets seem to have large bodies of water and as such having an aquatic subject race present on all worlds would serve as a stabilizing factor, especially if they could telepathically monitor the general disposition of the planet without being in a precarious position (due to being aquatic + having a Lotai) in case of a successful rebellion or even an invasion by a third party. Thinking about it, such an aquatic race would need to be able to have some basic tool use if that was what they were intended to do.

SpoilerShow

I rather liked the use that the Pols were employed for in The Pale Horse, as perfect record-keepers. Which would also explain why the Historians were able to mostly maintain their tech level (the Pols could teach the Historians lost knowledge), and why they were reluctant to allow access to the Pols. The Pols in that setting likely also know exactly what happened to bring down the Soia Liron Empire, and if it happened to be that the Soia Liron encountering a separate previously unknown more powerful race that did not like the thought of being meddled with by the Soia Liron (as opposed to modified humans escaping), the Umiak invading Historian Space and capturing some Pols could learn of that race and enlist that race in their aid against the Loroi.
An unknown species with a powerful lotai that retaliated with enough force would destroy the Soia Liron fast enough that the Soia Liron would not know how to defend against it or to prepare against it. After the Soia Liron were defeated, then the race would go back into hibernation.

[Werra]

So..how long do you see the Beacons plotline continuing?

The current discussion makes me think it might be a while yet.

Other possible finales might be the conclusion of the battle of Nezel/end of the Loroi/Umiak war/contact with humanity at large.

What is the rough plan?

Also, I have a suggestion. Whenever a new character is introduced, the one introducing has to write a short bio describing the character. That could make characters more consistent and give others an incentive to use them.

Thoughts?

[dragoongfa]

I think that 'Beacons' will continue for as long as Alex and Co have a story to tell; now how long that will take, that's up in the air.

I agree with a character outline, I will try to keep it in mind.

[novius]

Perhaps we can deviate from the 'no manipulator limbs' part - after all, they were designed as well, and the Soia might have seen reason to give them the means to finely manipulate their environs - possibly telekinetics can't wholly grasp (ha-hah) the versatility of hands. Having them more recognizable as the mermaids of lore might help the story flow. So... a set of fully formed arms, ending in webbed, clawed hands, and an even more elfin looking face makes sense. The biggest deviation from the picture would 'just' be the tail not being the stereotypical mermaid tail with the single fin fanning out at the end, but an even more elongated limb with a fin running along the back, allowing for propulsion using undulating movements rather than a tailstroke. Or ... perhaps the Soia experimented with different designs. Who knows?

So yes, there are good reasons for the Soia to design a sapient aquatic race with considerable psionic power and Lotai. Perhaps they were designed as a counter if the Loroi for some reason get out of hand. Tempest herself might have been the notable exeption securing their service (but not necessarily loyalty, I think), but at a whole that would be a good reason why the Bedein would be quite ill-reputed in Loroi lore as well.

About character outlines - usually I make them up as they go, adding details when they become relevant, but since I'm not the only author here now, I'll try to keep that in mind as well.

[Razor One]

An idea;

SpoilerShow

Let's assume that the Bedein were on Earth during the Soia period half a million years ago, and remained there until relatively recently in evolutionary history. The longer they're on Earth predating humans, the more plausible the Lotai evolutionary counter becomes, and the more recently they were made extinct on Earth, the more likely any instinctual response to them would remain preserved in the survivors, to say nothing of vague cultural memories.

I've got two possible scenarios in my head.

The first is that they suffered from the Toba Catastrophe worse than the human population did ~70,000 Years ago. What few survivors there were weren't enough to rebuild their population and aggressive hunting of the remaining vulnerable human populations weeded out individuals lacking a lotai. The last of the Bedein die out on Earth, leaving the remaining 1000 - 10000 breeding pairs to repopulate.

The second is that as human civilisation began to really get off the ground 10,000 years ago, there was an effort to exterminate them by stone age populations living in and around Africa and the Mediterranean in the coastal and river/lake systems in those regions, largely succeeding with perhaps a last gasp in the late bronze age before disappearing altogether.

Lack of evidence in both scenarios can be attributed to being aquatic, sea level rise, and perhaps a cultural more that demands that the body of a Bedein be destroyed. Since I don't imagine we'll have scoured the sea floor thoroughly in the 2160's, and fossilisation in shallow waters is I think somewhat dubious, it's plausible that there's little hard evidence of their existence on Earth.

[novius]

SpoilerShow

@Razor One
Beautiful and well thought out proposal. And, these two scenarios don't necessarily exclude each other. On the evolutional time scale, the Bedein rose as predators and the cause of evolutionary pressure on the prehominids to develop a Lotai.

The Toba Catastrophe could have affected the Bedein as well. The initial explosion shockwave racing through the water may have killed lots of them, and the reduced sunlight because of the airborne volcanic dust caused food chains in the sea to collapse as well. Being fully aquatic they faced starvation, too.

They could have recovered alongside the humans, and it was a very close race for the two dominant species on this planet, but with the humans having a genetic memory of their age-old nemesis, it spelled doom for the Bedein. Scientists are already arguing that the stone-age human may be responsible for the smilodon's and the mammoth's extinction, as well as that of most of the ice-age megafauna, so we can be reasonably sure that they would put quite an effort into hunting down these sea creatures, but if they can retreat to the deep sea, which is still largely unexplored as of today, it would be technically impossible for the stone- or bronze-age humans to completely exterminate them.

Nice touch with the reference to the "Sea Peoples". I could imagine the Bedein trying to make a last stand against the humans which are slowly becoming seafaring in themselves and encroaching on their own turf. Whether some of them survived in isolation until 2160 or they were completely eradicated by then, Alex surely has a story to tell that many things they deemed to be in the realm of myth and fantasy is shockingly real.

[dragoongfa]

http://www.well-of-souls.com/forums/vie ... 191#p13191

Regarding the earlier discussion about the tozon:

1 solon “beat”: one heartbeat, 1.092 seconds. The average rest heartbeat for a female Loroi is approx. 55 beats per minute.
1 bima “moment” = 1 dinosolon = 64 solon (70 seconds). Infrequently used unit between beat and cycle.
1 digel “cycle” 1 danzosolon = 1 dinobima = 64 bima = 8 nestasolon = 4096 solon = 4473 seconds (1.25 hours)
1 tibos “day” = 21 digel = 26.09 Earth hours
1 nanapi “transit”= 241.92 hours (10.08 Earth days)
1 mannal “pace” = 0.776 m
1 malir solon “radiance beat”~= 1.1 light second, 327,373 km.
1 Deinar sina “Deinar gravity” or “standard gravity”: 9.216 m/s^2, ~= 0.94G
1 nasitosdal sina “shipboard gravity” = 7/8 (0.875) standard gravity = 0.82G
1 Deinar tozon = one Deinar year, similar to one Earth year
1 nistil tozon = “standard year;” (22,195,037 seconds, 256.887 Earth days, .7033 Earth years)

So yeah, sticking with the Deinar Tozon to count things is mostly canonical since both it and the 'standard year' are used.

[Werra]

Don't sweat it. We all know what was meant with 400 tozon. We know when Nathan was born also.

It can just be a minor oversight, no need to find a complicated fix. If it bothers you, we can all just edit in 520 tozon instead of 400.

Personally, I'd rather stick to the year length from the official Loroi timeline. It's cumbersome enough to juggle different units of time without subdividing it into specifics.

SpoilerShow

I've also had an idea for the succesful defense of Tinza-sector without it ending up as an asspull. Most of the pieces are in play already. But I don't want to spoil it.
How many of you have read Sun Tzu or Clausewitz?

[Razor One]

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I would consider Sun Tzu to be basic reading. But just in case.

Regarding Tozons, I say we just handwave that and say that when a Loroi says tozon there's a telepathic subtext that tells people which Tozon measure they're using and that they freely switch between the two types without missing a beat.

[dragoongfa]

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I have, although Clausewitz was a little chore to read, mainly because he never actually finished 'On war' with everything that entailed in terms of editing. My general idea was for Alex to 'introduce' the Loroi version of the gunboat and 'missile cruiser'. The gunboat would in essence be a Destroyer's engine with guns (an existing design that didn't enter mass production because of politics). The 'missile cruisers' would be add hoc converted freighters and transport ships acting like weapon platforms, positioned at the jump points; when an Umiak force would jump in the missile ships would launch everything while the crews still suffer from jump sickness.

Both should be easy to mass produce within a few days from existing stockpiles and assets; their introduction and use stalling the Umiak advance until reinforcement from the Tellai fleet and the rest of the sectors arrive to destroy the Umiak breakthrough forces with relatively tolerable destruction across parts of the Tinza sector.

[dragoongfa]

Also, minor plot line that I have been planning in my head:

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Alex seeing to the burial of the recovered crew members of Bellarmine, with everything that has been going on this may have slipped his mind so far but they are in orbit around a world where an impromptu burial can take place. After everything that has happened and with him making some headway in regards to the Umiak Lotai this should be something that even Duskcrown would grant, I would give this about 6 to 8 hours to do.

This would allow for Alex to meet a Neridi and maybe a Barsam for the first time (Mozin should still be on Azimol unless people want to introduce him again as him having been 'tagging along' with the 51st all this time as the group's designated courier, not having the opportunity to come in contact with Alex).

Also, gives the opportunity for Alex to see what artifacts the Loroi recovered, I am calling dibs for a military history encyclopedia, the entire music library of Sabaton and a chess board from the recovered locker of a military nut of a fellow crew member.

[Warringrose]

to Dragoognfa

SpoilerShow

Alex can also make certain that the bodies of the assassinated ambassadors are being treated with all due dignity and respect, especially since Tempo has already publicly stated before witnesses that the Loroi Union would uphold any and all funeral customs in chap 1.

[novius]

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Always assuming that the databanks of the Bellarmine remained reasonably intact, I'm pretty sure the Loroi would be able to recover a 'goodwill package' of human culture and trivia, originally intended to be used/given away by the diplomatic staff. This would be something the Mizol would call dibs for... Beryl, as a Listel, would be interested in about everything, though I can totally see her guilty pleasure being rifling through Ellen Kirkland's - or Alex's - personal belongings.

[dragoongfa]

I am pretty sure that it takes a lot more time to send that much information over a distant sending but lets go with it as an exception.

[Zarya]

I have no good idea or fixed opinion about this. But we could stick to "very high information density" to set it apart from normal sanzai.

SpoilerShow

In New Frontiers the focus is mostly on the interactions between Nathan and the Loroi. While going they discover that - in some ways - they may enhance each other’s abilities. Arioch didn't touch this yet in Outsider - so this is highly speculative - but I like to explore in what ways the combination human plus Loroi has benefits.

We sorta know that direct contact comes with "higher bandwidth" than "wireless sanzai", and in the fanfics there’s speculation about the scenarios under which telepathy between the species could occur. The sanzai wave in New Frontiers with its high information density + high bandwidth over a long distance is going beyond that. The idea here is also that it teaches the wider diral group more about Natan. Does it come across as plausible? Probably not so much... (in that case I could tune it down).

The exception might be that this only works with the pure of heart that still are virgin - it happens only once

Edit: have added some thoughts. And I am a messy thinker so have edited multiple times.

[dragoongfa]

Currently working on the next part of Beacons, mainly character development stuff.

[dragoongfa]

Done for now, I hope that people will appreciate Tempo just a little bit more