Page 151 Discussion: "We will wait, Outsider"

[Arioch]

Heh.. love is funny that way.. opposites attract!

Well, statistically speaking, opposites don't attract. The data overwhelmingly supports the conclusion that people tend to pick partners that have similarities in the personality areas that are important to them, and that people who do pair up with partners who are dissimilar or opposite in the personality areas that are important to them generally break up. (With only one notable exception.) Further, except for some minor regression toward the mean over time, more alike couples tend to report being more satisfied with their relationship.

The saying is "opposites attract", not "opposites make good life partners." There is biological advantage in mating with someone different from you or outside your local circle (that's the whole point of sex: to diversify your genes), so it's easy to see why people are often attracted to outsiders or people with different characters than their own. Strong attraction doesn't mean the relationship will last.

[novius]

I can't deny they have great chemistry.

I tend to disagree. Just because they do have some similarities doesn't necessarily mean they find some common ground. Much like there's no place for two alpha personalities in any situation.

As said, Alex made his opinion about her abundantly clear, and she regards him with the same distaste as something she'd scrape off her boot.

Alex might continue to rile her up whenever they're forced to cross paths - because they'd never do so on their own volition - until she'd actually lose her temper and use his body for some percussive remodeling of the shuttle interior. Without lifting a finger, of course.

[entity2636]

And Beryl's words that the suit requires some calibration? We'll just have to see how much of this is true and how much of this is Beryl's wishful thinking....

Knowing, that a Loroi's body temperature is around 20-ish degrees Celsius, and the suit is likely set by default to regulate it's internal temperature to that of a Loroi, Beryl telling Alex to not take too much time in the suit before she can calibrate it, has a completely different sound to it.

[Werra]

Does it have to end up being about love? The Loroi don't have it the same way we do. Biologically and sociologically not.
I think expecting them to conform to human notions is doing them a disservice and can only disappoint.

[CrimsonFALKE]

Well he could have been slick and like well you can stay and watch certainly although that means you wish to couple with me at the same time! I have a feeling Jim won't be please with that he may shoot me like in Starcraft2

[dragoongfa]

I am fairly certain that whatever hangs from the wall is intended to be used as a trashcan, probably of hygienic products since it is obviously hermetically sealed, any similarity with Historian artifacts is purely coincidental.

I seriously wonder if Tempo really forgot about that one.

[Arioch]

I am fairly certain that whatever hangs from the wall is intended to be used as a trashcan, probably of hygienic products since it is obviously hermetically sealed, any similarity with Historian artifacts is purely coincidental.

I always thought of it as more of a flowerpot.

I seriously wonder if Tempo really forgot about that one.

Well... she did board the shuttle at the last moment.

[dragoongfa]

I am fairly certain that whatever hangs from the wall is intended to be used as a trashcan, probably of hygienic products since it is obviously hermetically sealed, any similarity with Historian artifacts is purely coincidental.

I always thought of it as more of a flowerpot.

If my time in the military taught me one thing then that thing is: The lowest common denominator is what decides what something is and how it is used. From my experience the lowest common denominator will see as a trashcan only because it is too big to be considered a chamber pot and any moron would be too scared to sit on it and possibly get stuck.

I seriously wonder if Tempo really forgot about that one.

Well... she did board the shuttle at the last moment.

She hasn't been getting enough sleep, hasn't she?

[icekatze]

hi hi

The saying is "opposites attract", not "opposites make good life partners." There is biological advantage in mating with someone different from you or outside your local circle (that's the whole point of sex: to diversify your genes), so it's easy to see why people are often attracted to outsiders or people with different characters than their own. Strong attraction doesn't mean the relationship will last.

I will grant that opposites attracting is not the same as opposites make good life partners, but usually when people say opposites attract, they are supporting complementary relationship theory.

It is certainly true that there is a good biological reason for selecting mates with different characteristics. However, with humans at least, it does not seem that it is a very prevalent drive. The biggest factors in attraction tend to be the appearance of healthiness, familiarity, and symmetry. Interracial couples may be at an all time high and trending upward, but they're still only 10-15% of couples.

(Granted that the genes that make up racial groups are not actually that many, and genetic diversity is greater within groups than across, it is still what most people look at visually when deciding if someone is in or out group.)

All that being said, I do certainly know people who think that the idea of the outsider is exotic and exciting. I just wouldn't go so far as to treat it as an axiom.

[entity2636]

If my time in the military taught me one thing then that thing is: The lowest common denominator is what decides what something is and how it is used.

LOL! Reminds me of "Remember, kids! Everything can be a hammer and most things can be a pry bar"

[novius]

Does it have to end up being about love? The Loroi don't have it the same way we do. Biologically and sociologically not.
I think expecting them to conform to human notions is doing them a disservice and can only disappoint.

No one said anything about love. For now, what drives both Talon and Beryl could (would) be simple curiosity. Though, Beryl did admit that on the Loroi male part there is a biological imperative to mate. So it's reasonable to assume that Loroi do have about the same urges and drives humans have, else they wouldn't have survived the times their ordered society had collapsed, for example after the fall of the Soia Empire.

But yes, the drive to pair bond might be missing in Loroi (as it is evidently missing in many humans, too), whether it was never there or had been sort of outlawed in modern Loroi society might be a different question.

But yes, both Talon and Beryl do display some sort of curiosity, especially Beryl who simply couldn't drop the lines of thought about his 'nakedness taboos' and comparative mating habits early on.

And Beryl had shown at least once a tinge of jealousy when Talon made even more and more easily 'progress' with Alex when they met up in the shuttle cockpit.

Loroi may be not about romantic love. But a romp between the bedsheets is likely to be a different matter. Else handing out or denying male encounter permissions would simply not work as a measure of handing out merits and enforcing discipline, and for bolstering their population numbers they'd have resorted to in vitro fertilization or cloning as a cleaner, quicker and more efficient means to get things done.

[Werra]

For all the apparent similarities, Loroi biology is different in key aspects. In humans pair bonding is highly effective as the mother is weak and feeble during pregnancy and dependent on other peoples labour during much of child rearing. The male is also generally the more productive part of the pair, at least in terms of consumable goods. So the equation is male labour + female child rearing = offspring.

In Loroi the equation is only partially reversed. Female Loroi still carry the load of pregnancy and childcare, but also have to be the productive ones. The most succesful survival strategy should therefore be one in which many females share the workload (of maintaining the males) and cover for each other during vulnerable periods.
Monogamous relationships should, after 250.000 years post-fall evolution be absolutely abbarent to them. I could even take Beryl for her word and believe that Loroi have sex primarily for reproductive purposes.

The consequences for their culture and how they behave around each other would be massive. We should consider their body language as alien to us as Trade. The sounds forming words may be the same but...

[novius]

I could even take Beryl for her word and believe that Loroi have sex primarily for reproductive purposes.

Primarily being the operative word. Which in turn means that they do know of recreational sex, which is underlined by the "Insider" tidbit that some times Loroi females do fondly remember the times they spent - the big difference is that the longing for a repeat performance is missing.

And, the previous statement still stands. If mating hasn't been tied to the biological reward system they'd surely have done away with sex altogether and resorted to artificial means of getting pregnant. Less hassle, easier to be controlled, quicker, more efficient. Or even done completely away with childbearing and have their kids raised in artificial wombs.

So yes, for all the apparent differences there are quite some similarities. Which doesn't make things any easier for Alex.

[sunphoenix]

Alex - "These Loroi women are going to be the Death of me!"

[Werra]

Primarily

The primary function can be absolutely vital for the whole. It doesn't necessarily follow that Loroi have sex for secondary reasons, without the primary. Would you buy a car that by design can't drive?

If mating hasn't been tied to the biological reward system they'd surely have done away with sex altogether and resorted to artificial means of getting pregnant.

Not at all. Sex doesn't have to be tied to direct biological rewards to be worthwhile. Social rewards and pressures are enough to get people to copulate. Many homosexuals had and still have families and biological offspring for those (and more) reasons afterall.

[boldilocks]

If mating hasn't been tied to the biological reward system they'd surely have done away with sex altogether and resorted to artificial means of getting pregnant.

Not at all. Sex doesn't have to be tied to direct biological rewards to be worthwhile. Social rewards and pressures are enough to get people to copulate. Many homosexuals had and still have families and biological offspring for those (and more) reasons afterall.

Orgasms still give a pleasurable response to homosexuals, though. Also, I would assume some familial drive is present in them.

[Voitan]

Given Loroi can laugh, enjoy things, and were allegedly based off a primitive species with biological reward systems, it's a fair guess they have biological reward systems for the dirty tango.

[Krin]

As my first post take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt, However I find it hilarious that everyone seems to be focused, and continues to focus on, the nature of the potential inter species sex life.

I find it kind of odd that Alex is not questioning or pushing back with the nonchalant treatment of his person or privacy.
Especially given the recent events that he has been granted / recognized as a diplomat and "captain". He's been kept in isolation even after that (granted it was for his safety). They continue to show little regard for personal space.
Given all the events, if I were him, I would be seriously questioning the intentions of the Loroi.

[Zorg56]

As my first post take what I'm about to say with a grain of salt, However I find it hilarious that everyone seems to be focused, and continues to focus on, the nature of the potential inter species sex life.

I find it kind of odd that Alex is not questioning or pushing back with the nonchalant treatment of his person or privacy.
Especially given the recent events that he has been granted / recognized as a diplomat and "captain". He's been kept in isolation even after that (granted it was for his safety). They continue to show little regard for personal space.
Given all the events, if I were him, I would be seriously questioning the intentions of the Loroi.

1. Mass Effect is a thing.

2. I dont think it is matter that much for loroi now, they probably wont be able to send expedition in next year or even more, because of Umiak activity on frontline. So, i think they mostly see him as a speciemen for experementation.

[novius]

Social rewards and pressures are enough to get people to copulate. Many homosexuals had and still have families and biological offspring for those (and more) reasons afterall.

Loroi, as a species which are usually practical to a fault, would strike me as the first people who would simply do away with an outdated, clumsy and messy way of reproduction if there's no inherent benefit to it rather than clinging to it just because of customs.

What you're talking about is the fact that homosexuality is still stigmatized in many parts of the world. It's still a fact, despite all that rainbow banners and public declarations of solidarity. So gay people do this to maintain a facade. Remove sex, remove all the hang ups around it and you won't have that problem anymore.