Reply to topic  [ 2022 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77 ... 81  Next
WIP Discussion (Part 1!) 
Author Message
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2011 9:19 pm
Posts: 2817
Location: San Jose, CA
Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
novius wrote:
First, Kikitik-27 most likely had seen Alex on the Tempest's bridge during the banter between it (him?) and Stillstorm unless the camera angle was quite narrow and Alex remained out of view.

Stillstorm's comm image is shown on pages 122, 127, 130 and 137. The couch where Alex was sitting is not in view.

novius wrote:
But still, the Umiak have to assume that SG51 picked up something valuable from the wreck, and that there's something the Loroi wouldn't want to let fall into Umiak claws since they blasted the wreck into pieces as soon as they had to retreat.

I'm not sure that's quite so obvious. The Loroi defended the wreckage against steep odds and destroyed it once the position became untenable; this only reveals that they were still looking for something, and/or considered the wreckage itself valuable. I don't think it necessarily reveals anything about what they had already found; if anything, it suggests that what they had already found was perhaps not all that valuable, or they might have run right away. We can infer that Kikitik-27 is very clever, but he doesn't have Sith script-reading powers; he may suspect that the Loroi have something useful, but he can't know for certain.

novius wrote:
While the Umiak offensive may have been already underway, there'd have been enough possibilities for Kikitik-27 to inform the rest of the approaching fleet that SG51 may be a priority target because of highly important cargo/intel on board. After all, he himself followed SG51 all the way from Naam to Leido.

How? Kikitik-27 is not in Leido; he's still in Sala 101. The Umiak crasher force came through Rallis. The two fleets followed different paths that do not cross (until Leido).

novius wrote:
Talon's rant over the comms might just have been a confirmation of what the Umiak assumed at that point.

The Loroi are not transmitting in the clear; their communications with other Union units are encrypted.

novius wrote:
As for the torpedoes being fired, the gunship crew itself or some targeting algorithm may have decided that two torpedoes might be enough to finish off the shuttle, and neither considered the possibility of Talon's daredevil flying.

Note that the torpedoes did not acquire the shuttle until shortly before impact, and Talon's response to the news was "Figures," rather than surprise. Umiak torpedoes are fired in large numbers and are deliberately heterogeneous in performance and behavior; if you waggle a drive plume in front of a large group of them, it's very likely that a few will lock on. There were probably something like 100 torpedoes in the salvo; those that we see striking the station were just the first to arrive.

novius wrote:
So yes, Tempo might be in a right funk and being the Mizol she is could see conspiracies and treachery everywhere and give Talon (and maybe later Alex) the Third Degree, and lack of evidence would be just an incentive for her to dig further.

Or, she might look displeased because a) it looks like there's a decent chance that they're about to die, and/or b) it looks like there's a decent chance that Loroi are about to lose the war. But it can always be a conspiracy! :D

_________________
Outsider


Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:43 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:46 am
Posts: 1035
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Yeah, I think Alex is getting a full front seat view of how pressed to the Breaking limits the Loroi are in this war! An undetected and unexpected "Gate-Crasher" Fleet is Very Bad news for the Loroi.. they had only two edge against the Umiak onslaught.. their 'Farseer's' ability to detect them coming long before they got there and their longer effective range particle-beam weaponry. Without those against a race that is literally willing to kill their own populations of inhabited worlds just to keep up war production... no one could stand against that! "It is impossible to protect yourself from a enemy willing to die to get you!"

This "Gatecrasher Fleet" is basically a suicide bomb...the Umiak onboard those ships have little to nothing to return too...except starvation and poisoned worlds...they MUST get new worlds to plunder or Die!

I think Tempo being a little or even a lot frustrated and stoically facing a very likely death is most appropriate they are in grim straits with the Gatecrasher Fleet pouring through this breach in the Loroi defensive line.

_________________
PbP:
[IC] Deep Strike 'Lt' Kamielle Lynn
[IC] Cydonia Rising/Tempest Sonnidezi Stormrage
[IC] Incursion Maiannon Golden Hair
[IC] TdSmR Athen Rourke

"...you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him."


Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:27 am
Profile

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:27 pm
Posts: 392
Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Arioch wrote:
We can infer that Kikitik-27 is very clever, but he doesn't have Sith script-reading powers; he may suspect that the Loroi have something useful, but he can't know for certain.

Well, they should have the same SOS messages the Loroi got. If they have those and flight data of a shuttle making a hurried pick-up it's reasonable to guess survivor(s). It wouldn't shock me if they even have pretty high-def pictures of Alex. But that depends on the proplyd and what kind of telescopes the Umiak have, of course.

If they also have the data the Loroi had on page 63, the vector of the wreck and energy signatures of the shots, guessing the jump vector the Bellarmine came in shouldn't be too hard. That leaves two questions. Where did that ship come from and how did it get to Naam, one jump from the Loroi borders without being intercepted?


Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:36 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:31 am
Posts: 716
Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Werra wrote:
Well, they should have the same SOS messages the Loroi got. If they have those and flight data of a shuttle making a hurried pick-up it's reasonable to guess survivor(s). It wouldn't shock me if they even have pretty high-def pictures of Alex. But that depends on the proplyd and what kind of telescopes the Umiak have, of course.

If they also have the data the Loroi had on page 63, the vector of the wreck and energy signatures of the shots, guessing the jump vector the Bellarmine came in shouldn't be too hard. That leaves two questions. Where did that ship come from and how did it get to Naam, one jump from the Loroi borders without being intercepted?


The Umiak forces in Leido don't know a thing about what happened in Naam. Only Kikitik-27 and members of his fleet were in a position to make educated guesses.
For the fleet that entered Leido through the Rallis jump zone, Highland 7 was just a target of opportunity.

I think it likely the Umiak in Naam have less detailed archived data then the Loroi since the bulk of their forces was hiding in the proplyd during the Bellarmine's destruction. Unless of course her attacker was an Umiak vessel, which could make Kikitik-27 communication with Stillstorm a bluff.

_________________
Image


Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:08 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:46 am
Posts: 1035
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Kikitik-27's Reaction to the wreak of the Bell does not really support the idea that the Umiak blew the 'Bell' up... there was nothing gain by bargaining for the Loroi to leave unmolested if they surrendered the wreck of the ship...if it were perceived as of any importance the Umiak would have secured it when they blew it up. Heck the ONLY reason the Loroi found the 'Bell' at all was because of Alex's transmissions. Clearly... some third party, who is STILL behind the scenes manipulating things, blew up the 'Bell' ~ specifically to keep humanity from making contact with either the Loroi or the Umiak.

_________________
PbP:
[IC] Deep Strike 'Lt' Kamielle Lynn
[IC] Cydonia Rising/Tempest Sonnidezi Stormrage
[IC] Incursion Maiannon Golden Hair
[IC] TdSmR Athen Rourke

"...you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him."


Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:09 pm
Profile

Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 2:14 am
Posts: 734
Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
That must've been the Arilou then, in another atempt to alter our *smell*, so *they* won't find us.

Would explain a lot... Except I saw no range-limited laser....

*seeing myself out*

_________________
Vote for Outsider on TWC: Image
charred steppes, borders of territories: page 59,
jump-map of local stars: page 121, larger map in Loroi: page 118,
System view Leido Crossroads: page 123


Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:19 pm
Profile

Joined: Tue May 26, 2015 3:33 am
Posts: 513
Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Collaborateurs and traitors are a thing in many, maybe in all wars. And Tempo herself implied that the member races do have their own agenda and would use Alex for their own benefit, rather than the Union at a whole.

So yes, Tempo's suspicions about treachery - whether they're based on fact or not - are sort of justified, and it might not necessarily be a third party who blew up the Bellarmine firstplace, but some discontent element within the Union or the Hierarchy.

But, as said, she's a Mizol. A fairly high-ranked to boot. Seeing conspiracies and backhanded deals left and right are part of her job description of her 'second line of work', next to diplomacy. Being a spook is a job where paranoia is not a hindrance, but a vital part for that line of work :)

She is not a nice person. Alex would do well to be extra careful around her. Fireblade, she made it clear what she thinks of him - not much - but Tempo is that sort of person who smiles while she hides a dagger in her back...


Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:59 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:31 am
Posts: 716
Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
sunphoenix wrote:
Clearly... some third party, who is STILL behind the scenes manipulating things, blew up the 'Bell' ~ specifically to keep humanity from making contact with either the Loroi or the Umiak.


There's no evidence whatsoever to say that Bellarmine's attacker was there or acted to 'manipulate' things.

_________________
Image


Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:07 am
Profile

Joined: Fri May 18, 2018 3:24 am
Posts: 37
Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
sunphoenix wrote:
Yeah, I think Alex is getting a full front seat view of how pressed to the Breaking limits the Loroi are in this war! An undetected and unexpected "Gate-Crasher" Fleet is Very Bad news for the Loroi.. they had only two edge against the Umiak onslaught.. their 'Farseer's' ability to detect them coming long before they got there and their longer effective range particle-beam weaponry. Without those against a race that is literally willing to kill their own populations of inhabited worlds just to keep up war production... no one could stand against that! "It is impossible to protect yourself from a enemy willing to die to get you!"

This "Gatecrasher Fleet" is basically a suicide bomb...the Umiak onboard those ships have little to nothing to return too...except starvation and poisoned worlds...they MUST get new worlds to plunder or Die!

The crews are "fleet" Umiak, who have been born and raised on space stations and spend nearly all of their lives on said stations and ships. They don't have worlds to return to (and as a low gravity adaptation of an already low gravity species, they don't really want to).


Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:31 am
Profile

Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 2:14 am
Posts: 734
Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
GeoModder wrote:
sunphoenix wrote:
Clearly... some third party, who is STILL behind the scenes manipulating things, blew up the 'Bell' ~ specifically to keep humanity from making contact with either the Loroi or the Umiak.


There's no evidence whatsoever to say that Bellarmine's attacker was there or acted to 'manipulate' things.

There's no indication to the contrary anyway.
So far it seems unlikely that the Bellarmine attacker was Umiak or Loroi.
So, what/who was it then?


Anyway, is there any "word of god" if we'll ever find out who hit the Bellarmine and why, if we ever get to the comic's end?

_________________
Vote for Outsider on TWC: Image
charred steppes, borders of territories: page 59,
jump-map of local stars: page 121, larger map in Loroi: page 118,
System view Leido Crossroads: page 123


Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:31 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:59 am
Posts: 78
Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
It was historians.

The question is, why they help umiak...


Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:46 am
Profile

Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 2:14 am
Posts: 734
Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
That's the rumour I read here everywhere.
And likely to be true, given the information we now know and can speculate on.

But I want to know if we'll get ever get the information who did it and why in-comic sometime.
Otherwise this event will leave the story somewhat open to critique.
A kind of Deus Ex Machina to make the story run.
The shuttle could've had a simple accident (like flying into a piece of dust/debris) instead.

_________________
Vote for Outsider on TWC: Image
charred steppes, borders of territories: page 59,
jump-map of local stars: page 121, larger map in Loroi: page 118,
System view Leido Crossroads: page 123


Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:16 am
Profile

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:27 pm
Posts: 392
Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
I'm still not fully discounting a Loroi plot. There can easily be factions doing clandestine operations with unknown tech.


Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:21 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 30, 2018 3:59 am
Posts: 78
Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
How and why some loroi can betray other loroi?


Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:47 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:46 am
Posts: 1035
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Zorg56 wrote:
It was historians.

The question is, why they help umiak...


Honestly.. I'm not sure it was the historians... I'm feeling it might actually be the Soia-Liron. Who are not so "gone" as they have let everyone believe they are... not in the force as they were millennia ago... but quietly monitoring their, now feral pet Loroi, for some purpose.. or perhaps still engaged in some cosmic struggle with whatever force may be behind the Umiak rise.

But I do not think the "Bel's" attackers are any actors we have thus far seen... because its space opera at its best. Though this comic is glacially slow ...by artist need.. I think a GRAND tale is unfolding. The Historians likely know more than they are telling... but I don't think they are behind the destruction of the "Bell".

This is of course ALL Pure Speculation... but as a writer of character stories myself... I'd not hint at the 'true' enemy of a conflict on this grand a scale so soon either.

_________________
PbP:
[IC] Deep Strike 'Lt' Kamielle Lynn
[IC] Cydonia Rising/Tempest Sonnidezi Stormrage
[IC] Incursion Maiannon Golden Hair
[IC] TdSmR Athen Rourke

"...you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him."


Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:28 am
Profile

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:27 pm
Posts: 392
Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Zorg56 wrote:
How and why some loroi can betray other loroi?

The how is easy. Any faction that's free to send ships out without raising suspicion can do nearly anything it wants in the steppes, including making contact with the Umiak.
The reason depends entirely on who is doing what, of course.

@sunphoenix
There are hints that the Umiak also have high technology benefactors. Their plasma weaponry for instance is said to be too advanced for their other tech. That can mean Historians, it can also mean another species.

If the Historians managed to preserve Soia tech and culture, then it would be a convenient narrative dualism if the Umiak had access to tech from whomever defeated the Soia the last time.


Tue Nov 13, 2018 4:42 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:32 pm
Posts: 156
Location: Toulouse, France
Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
I think it’s impossible to say where Arioch’s story is going. Well made as it is, for me that’s part of the fun.
One thing is certain: we’ll all be wiser and older when the author wraps up the story :lol:


Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:45 am
Profile

Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:53 am
Posts: 307
Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
It's also entirely possible that Arioch himself doesn't know who shot down the Bellarmine because it's irrelevant.

It could be the Historians (my top choice because clearly the Umiaks are using tech that is beyond them and the Historians are the only ones known to possess tech that is beyond everyone else), Neridi or Delrias separatists, the Morat, the Tithric or pretty much anyone else whom we know or do not know.

It could also always remain an "unnamed third party" because the plot takes us away from it, the war ends or the story ends before the war does and this matter doesn't need resolving anymore. I recall reading that he didn't give much if any thought about the ship design, just enough that it's clearly not of Umiak or Loroi build.

It's also entirely possible that whoever shot down the Bellarmine aren't the same ones who provided the Umiaks with the psi stealth tech, but rather someone entirely different who happened to be observing/spying on the two warring parties. This is less likely but still possible I'd say.


Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:18 am
Profile

Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:27 pm
Posts: 392
Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
It would be very disappointing to not reveal the identity of the attacker.

Another species that happens to have farseeing stealth tech appears just to shoot down a human scout ship? No way.


Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:24 am
Profile

Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 8:27 am
Posts: 263
Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Image


Tue Nov 13, 2018 6:32 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 11:31 am
Posts: 716
Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Krulle wrote:
GeoModder wrote:
sunphoenix wrote:
Clearly... some third party, who is STILL behind the scenes manipulating things, blew up the 'Bell' ~ specifically to keep humanity from making contact with either the Loroi or the Umiak.


There's no evidence whatsoever to say that Bellarmine's attacker was there or acted to 'manipulate' things.

There's no indication to the contrary anyway.


That's like saying there's no indication against the existence of god, therefore he must exist. :P

_________________
Image


Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:20 am
Profile

Joined: Wed May 20, 2015 2:14 am
Posts: 734
Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Since I believe in her, and there's no proof he doesn't, I chose for "God exists".
He just doesn't care for us (anymore).

_________________
Vote for Outsider on TWC: Image
charred steppes, borders of territories: page 59,
jump-map of local stars: page 121, larger map in Loroi: page 118,
System view Leido Crossroads: page 123


Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:55 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2015 10:43 am
Posts: 138
Location: Saint-Petersburg, Russia
Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
It looks like the ship, that destroyed Bellarmine has some kind of active invisibility. The Bellarmine noticed attacker on point-blank range, when they could clearly see the ship's hull. Even for proplyd dust 850 km is too close.

_________________
Outsider in Russian
Image


Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:45 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:32 pm
Posts: 156
Location: Toulouse, France
Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
Like others, I’ve been comparing ship silhouettes. To no avail...

For me it would be a complete shock if the Bellarmine was destroyed by a Loroi faction. it just doesn’t feel plausible. Besides such an action would have been kept well conceiled from SG-51 and for Beryl whom honestly told Alex what she found out about the deployed weapon. Umiak elements or a 3rd party are more likely.

As an act of aggression it may have been triggered by the Scout ship being in the wrong place at the wrong time, as the aggressor wanted to conceil its presence for the warring parties. How that squares with using powerful weapons I don’t know...

Edit >>> have changed ‘Bell’ to Bellarmine.


Last edited by Zarya on Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Nov 14, 2018 4:12 am
Profile

Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:53 am
Posts: 307
Post Re: WIP Discussion (Part 1!)
The only thing we can say for sure is that the attacking ship was a) not a standard Loroi Navy design, b) not a standard Umiak Navy design and c) not a Barsam courier and d) about heavy destroyer or light cruiser sized. We haven't seen any other ships built by other factions, nations, species or even other companies/shipyards for that matter.

@Zarya - them using a heavy plasma weapon could be because they wanted to eliminate the 'Bell' ASAP thus they fired from a large caliber or they didn't have anything smaller other than a PDL which the 'Bell' could arguably survive for a couple of shots. Having to shoot three times I imagine was due to the Bellarmine having fusion power instead of antimatter - it just wound't flash and disappear from existence.


Wed Nov 14, 2018 5:59 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 2022 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 71, 72, 73, 74, 75, 76, 77 ... 81  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Onaiom and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group.
Designed by STSoftware for PTF.