Page: 225 - Krak, KRAK!! WHOKK!!!

Discussion regarding the Outsider webcomic, science, technology and science fiction.

Moderator: Outsider Moderators

D-503
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2023 5:48 pm

Re: Page: 225 - Krak, KRAK!! WHOKK!!!

Post by D-503 »

grixit wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 2:28 am
It occurs to me that if the umiaks are using some kind of psionic detection equipment, they might not know that Alex is even there.
Good point.
But i guess Umiak (at least in the same Group/Team/Bataillon) are connected by some sort of real-time network.
So even if this Trooper couldn´t see Alex before he entered the room, he definitely is aware of him now, and so are his comrades.
I´m also pretty sure that the bionic enhancements "work" a certain time after the hosts death, like a flight data recorder.

Interesting also that the trooper went for Beryl to knock her out - as to make sure she cannot "send" anymore by sanzai.
And that´s now Alex Chance - big mistake, mr. Bug...

D-503
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2023 5:48 pm

Re: Page: 225 - Krak, KRAK!! WHOKK!!!

Post by D-503 »

Overkill Engine wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 11:07 am
D-503 wrote:
Thu Dec 28, 2023 12:57 am
Not mentioned yet? Alex reaction: Drill kicking in, no flinching, determined expression. Go, man!!
It's a bit trope-y, but I would be highly amused if humans turned out to be stupid good at in dismounted combat at baseline just because they don't rely on cybernetics or psionics. Just hand them a gun and they go full Doom Guy. Gun becomes increasingly optional with increased anger levels.
(side note: Grr, just saw an error - "fliching" instead of "flinching", just corrected it...)

Yes.
We humans are not THAT inferior in combat. Ok, no chance against a psionic/telekinetic specialist like Tempo or (berserk) Fireblade. But what i got from the Insider those are quite rare.

"Normal" Loroi in combat against humans are not THAT superior, especially not against well drilled and armed troopers, or even Psychos with a strong desire to kill (the germans have a nice word for that: "Mordlust").

And add to that drugs like "Panzerschokolade" or Tilidin or whatever to make them go beserk for >80 hours in a row...
Edit: I just found out by a short search in the forums that Loroi Society despises drugs - another plus for humanity; even it is a bit "amoral"!

After all Loroi have their sanzai, but other than that they are physically much weaker than us (remember: Alex is quite short for a man, and he is still almost the tallest among the space-elves).

User avatar
sunphoenix
Posts: 1164
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:46 pm
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Re: Page: 225 - Krak, KRAK!! WHOKK!!!

Post by sunphoenix »

Shoot em' in tha Face!
PbP:
[IC] Deep Strike 'Lt' Kamielle Lynn
[IC] Cydonia Rising/Tempest Sonnidezi Stormrage
[IC] Incursion Maiannon Golden Hair
[IC] TdSmR Athen Rourke

"...you can't conquer a free man; the most you can do is Kill him."

Victor_D
Posts: 188
Joined: Tue Dec 11, 2012 8:46 am
Location: Czech Rep., European Union

Re: Page: 225 - Krak, KRAK!! WHOKK!!!

Post by Victor_D »

D-503 wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 7:49 pm

Yes.
We humans are not THAT inferior in combat. Ok, no chance against a psionic/telekinetic specialist like Tempo or (berserk) Fireblade. But what i got from the Insider those are quite rare.

"Normal" Loroi in combat against humans are not THAT superior, especially not against well drilled and armed troopers, or even Psychos with a strong desire to kill (the germans have a nice word for that: "Mordlust").

And add to that drugs like "Panzerschokolade" or Tilidin or whatever to make them go beserk for >80 hours in a row...
Edit: I just found out by a short search in the forums that Loroi Society despises drugs - another plus for humanity; even it is a bit "amoral"!

After all Loroi have their sanzai, but other than that they are physically much weaker than us (remember: Alex is quite short for a man, and he is still almost the tallest among the space-elves).
I'd say raw physical size/musculature is not really that relevant in like 99.9% of personal combat situation that occur in this setting (or our real world, for that matter). A bullet to the head will drop a 120 kg mountain of raw muscle just the same as a thin skinny guy weighing 60 kilos. Firearms and their equivalents are the great equaliser. The kind of "knife fight" combat situation where things like raw muscle strength are relevant are rare even today, usually you just get shot by an assault rifle in the face point blank (just look at the brutal trench clearing videos from Ukraine if you have the stomach for it).

You need some pretty heavy handwaving to craft a sci-fi setting where traditional masculine features like "body height", "muscles", "square jaw" make a lick of difference (I am looking at you, Dune).

D-503
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2023 5:48 pm

Re: Page: 225 - Krak, KRAK!! WHOKK!!!

Post by D-503 »

Victor_D wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2024 12:22 pm
D-503 wrote:
Mon Jan 01, 2024 7:49 pm
"Normal" Loroi in combat against humans are not THAT superior, especially not against well drilled and armed troopers, or even Psychos with a strong desire to kill (the germans have a nice word for that: "Mordlust").

And add to that drugs like "Panzerschokolade" or Tilidin or whatever to make them go beserk for >80 hours in a row...
Edit: I just found out by a short search in the forums that Loroi Society despises drugs - another plus for humanity; even it is a bit "amoral"!
I'd say raw physical size/musculature is not really that relevant in like 99.9% of personal combat situation that occur in this setting (or our real world, for that matter). A bullet to the head will drop a 120 kg mountain of raw muscle just the same as a thin skinny guy weighing 60 kilos. Firearms and their equivalents are the great equaliser.
That´s for sure.

But you convienently forgot to comment on enhancing drugs, also, a strong individual can carry heavier equipment. In my grandpa´s platoon was a "400 pound Gorilla" who was able to accurately fire the MG42 (!) from his bare hands (read: without the stand/tripod) like others fired a 98k or a MP 40 (! I´ve seen the pictures!).
Also gramps told me about the effect of "Panzerschokolade" - Meth, to honest.
That made a huge difference, a distinct psychological advantage.
And since Loroi despise drugs... ;)

That´s why im positive that we´re not THAT lost compared to space-elves or bugs.

raistlin34
Posts: 270
Joined: Sun Nov 08, 2015 3:46 pm

Re: Page: 225 - Krak, KRAK!! WHOKK!!!

Post by raistlin34 »

Humanity is superior...because we do drugs. 8-)
I admit, that's something I never found before in sci-fi.

D-503
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2023 5:48 pm

Re: Page: 225 - Krak, KRAK!! WHOKK!!!

Post by D-503 »

raistlin34 wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2024 9:46 pm
Humanity is superior...because we do drugs. 8-)
I admit, that's something I never found before in sci-fi.
Well, others were promoting suicide-missions, even "forced" ones... :|

Demarquis
Posts: 437
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:03 pm

Re: Page: 225 - Krak, KRAK!! WHOKK!!!

Post by Demarquis »

I doubt we are inferior to the Loroi at all in terms of one on one combat. We might even have the advantage. But in unit tactics and operations? The ability of the Loroi to network themselves psychically is a game breaker. We could, of course, try to make up for that with radio and head up displays and whatnot, but radio is susceptible to jamming and tracking, while so far as I know, Sanzai isn't. Plus, they are monitoring each other's thoughts, possibly gaining access to some sort of 3D X-ray style scanner. We don't have an answer to that.

Of course, none of that matters when it comes to ship to ship combat. Here, we are inferior for completely different reasons--our backward technology, and the Loroi's efficiency at population growth.

User avatar
Arioch
Site Admin
Posts: 4497
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:19 am
Location: San Jose, CA
Contact:

Re: Page: 225 - Krak, KRAK!! WHOKK!!!

Post by Arioch »

A blaster does the same amount of damage regardless of which species is pressing the trigger.

QuakeIV
Posts: 210
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:49 pm

Re: Page: 225 - Krak, KRAK!! WHOKK!!!

Post by QuakeIV »

Meanwhile, bethesda games

D-503
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2023 5:48 pm

Re: Page: 225 - Krak, KRAK!! WHOKK!!!

Post by D-503 »

Back to 225: Beryl´s blaster rifle obviously did nil damage to the trooper.
Is Aley going to switch to "8", aka "full throttle"?
Or is Beryl just a lousy marksman, and "4" will do?

QuakeIV
Posts: 210
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:49 pm

Re: Page: 225 - Krak, KRAK!! WHOKK!!!

Post by QuakeIV »

Seems pretty clear she missed, to me

User avatar
Urist
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:41 am

Re: Page: 225 - Krak, KRAK!! WHOKK!!!

Post by Urist »

Which still seems strange - between Beryl and Alexander, she is presumably the more well-trained in marksmanship (having been trained during a time of total war, for a navy posting, versus 'you Scout Corps members are *technically* military, so here's some basic rifle training') *and* has the loroi wall-hacks running. Couple that with the fact that hardtroops are big lads, and one wonders just *how* she missed with two shots.

Admittedly, a still comic doesn't quite portray speed very well, so it's possible that the hardtroop is just moving *extremely* quickly. Still seems strange.
Barrai Arrir

User avatar
GeoModder
Posts: 1039
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2011 6:31 pm

Re: Page: 225 - Krak, KRAK!! WHOKK!!!

Post by GeoModder »

Another possibility is that hardtrooper armor can take a couple shots at half strenghts setting.
Image

QuakeIV
Posts: 210
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2020 6:49 pm

Re: Page: 225 - Krak, KRAK!! WHOKK!!!

Post by QuakeIV »

The thing is, if she did hit then its not even apparently marred by the impacts. If thats true, hopefully Alex immediately and reflexively dialed it up to 8, because otherwise he is screwed.

D-503
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2023 5:48 pm

Re: Page: 225 - Krak, KRAK!! WHOKK!!!

Post by D-503 »

Urist wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2024 4:47 pm
Which still seems strange - between Beryl and Alexander, she is presumably the more well-trained in marksmanship (having been trained during a time of total war, for a navy posting,
OTOH she as a Listel is in a mere "administrative" position.
The GURPS-sheet shows, too - compared to Fireblade her combat skills are next to nothing...

Urist wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2024 4:47 pm
versus 'you Scout Corps members are *technically* military, so here's some basic rifle training'
That´s what Alex was thinking, too, on p213.

Let´s hope he is at least better than Beryl, although on a second glance his technique/style is not very convincing (at least he avoids the "chicken wing"...).

Plus, if the hardtrooper moved really fast, and Alex was standing/hiding aside, the hardtrooper´s momentum is now to his disadvantage.
Urist wrote:
Sat Jan 06, 2024 4:47 pm
Admittedly, a still comic doesn't quite portray speed very well, so it's possible that the hardtroop is just moving *extremely* quickly. Still seems strange.
i guess it is up to speed, too. At least i have no better explanation.

D-503
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2023 5:48 pm

Re: Page: 225 - Krak, KRAK!! WHOKK!!!

Post by D-503 »

QuakeIV wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2024 2:14 am
If thats true, hopefully Alex immediately and reflexively dialed it up to 8, because otherwise he is screwed.
The dial seems to be in the same position as on p214.

(BTW: Are most Loroi left-handed? Because Beryl referred to the dial as "...here at your thumb" - while Alex obviously shoots right-handed)

User avatar
Urist
Posts: 50
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2023 2:41 am

Re: Page: 225 - Krak, KRAK!! WHOKK!!!

Post by Urist »

D-503 wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2024 4:23 am
(BTW: Are most Loroi left-handed? Because Beryl referred to the dial as "...here at your thumb" - while Alex obviously shoots right-handed)
Yup, Arioch has said that most loroi are left-handed. It also occurs to me that Alex hasn't had cause to hold a 'handed' tool for most of the comic, so Beryl probably didn't know that he (& humans in general) aren't left-handed as well.
Barrai Arrir

User avatar
Arioch
Site Admin
Posts: 4497
Joined: Sat Mar 05, 2011 4:19 am
Location: San Jose, CA
Contact:

Re: Page: 225 - Krak, KRAK!! WHOKK!!!

Post by Arioch »

The power slider is on both sides of the weapon.

D-503
Posts: 91
Joined: Sat Jul 15, 2023 5:48 pm

Re: Page: 225 - Krak, KRAK!! WHOKK!!!

Post by D-503 »

Arioch wrote:
Sun Jan 07, 2024 7:35 am
The power slider is on both sides of the weapon.
Then there´s a good chance he quickly dials "8" if necessary.

Post Reply