Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

[sunphoenix]

However, if a powerful telepathic (or psychokinetic) individual is dangerously, untreatably insane, there may be no options other than euthanasia.

Yeah a insane paranoid schizophrenic, or sociopathic, or even a personality disorder exhibiting schizotypal behavior with powerful psychokinesis or worse powerful telepathy that might induce others to insanity would be a threat that could not be simply counseled and euthanasia would be best... sadly.

I coined the term 'Black Sanzai' to describe such sad patients {hopelessly insane and dangerous with powerful telepathy/psychokinesis}...

Do the Loroi have a actual term to identify an insane telepathy/psychokinetic? I'm pretty sure such an occurrence of a Loroi who can't be mentally treated to help them MUST be rare...

[VictorValor]

Oh. Very nice. That means humanity has a potential edge given time. How would the Loroi take human technological progress in the past and now? I don't remember if it was mentioned how long it took the Loroi to go from primitive planes (Kitty Hawk type) to high speed prop planes to jets and rockets. Would that surprise and worry them?

We're low enough down on the tech tree that it won't worry them, they can bring us into the fold pretty easily at this point, and in doing so guarantee that we never have the military strength to threaten them.

That's true, right now. But give it a few decades, a century at the most, and I can see Humanity becoming a major economic powerhouse on this side of the Loroi Alliance. Getting some control through economic means and eventually having an active colonization effort.

If Humanity plays it's cards right, it might be able to maintain military autonomy because:
1) The Loroi Weltanschauung, their worldview, has just been shattered by the existence of Alex and Humanity. It is pretty clear that the Loroi's belief that they are the heirs of the Soia is something they tell themselves, as their clients seem to understand the real reason for why they rule (force). With the belief they use to justify to themselves not only their right to rule but their conception of their role in creation gone, they are going to need to concoct a new one. Alex is in a unique position to propose an alternative theory for example, that even though the Loroi aren't the heirs of Soia, they are still a warrior race descended from another warrior race (us), after all, why else would the Soia have used Humanity as a base to make the Loroi. Though this particular BS excuse could easily bite us in the ass, accepting it would mean that they derive legitimacy as the warrior-rulers of the league in part from us. This could be done subtly by, let's say, emphasizing Humanity's warrior past and violent inclinations or once they finally reach the Prabhu, make sure to entertain the Loroi delegation with plenty of war movies: Patton, Lone Survivor, Apocalpse Now, Generation Kill, etc.
2) More importantly we've got knowledge of a long forgotten route into what is now Umiak Spake that nobody knows about courtesy of the Orgus. Information on a backdoor into Umiak space means Humanity can dictate the terms of any bargain we care to make with the Loroi.


Also, I can't remember if it was this thread that someone asked what the purpose of noncommissioned officers in a technically advanced society, but since the site does not have a search feature that I could found I will answer that question here. Noncoms form an important link between officer and enlisted. They do the day-to-day management of the enlisted, freeing up officers to better focus on administration.

Yeah a insane paranoid schizophrenic, or sociopathic, or even a personality disorder exhibiting schizotypal behavior with powerful psychokinesis or worse powerful telepathy that might induce others to insanity would be a threat that could not be simply counseled and euthanasia would be best... sadly.

You are confusing sociopathy with psychopathy. It might not even be immediately evident to a loroi in the same room as a loroi-lecter or a loroi-stalin that the person was a sociopath. They would have to examine the content of their thoughts in order to conclude that the person in question lacked a conscience or any form of empathy.

[fredgiblet]

We can't really dictate much to them. The downside of exposing ourselves by sending the contact mission is that they know we are there and they will come for us sooner rather than later. The advantage of exposing ourselves rather than hiding is that by offering ourselves we can get a better deal then we would get if they showed up overhead with a battleship, by showing that we are eager to co-operate we'll make ourselves appear more valuable.

Additionally military independence isn't something you want when you are throwing your lot in AGAINST someone who can easily kick your ass, insisting on that will likely result in the Loroi stationing fewer ships with us and letting us call for help when we get attacked, that weakends our position instead of strengthening it.

[VictorValor]

We can't really dictate much to them. The downside of exposing ourselves by sending the contact mission is that they know we are there and they will come for us sooner rather than later. The advantage of exposing ourselves rather than hiding is that by offering ourselves we can get a better deal then we would get if they showed up overhead with a battleship, by showing that we are eager to co-operate we'll make ourselves appear more valuable.

I'm not sure why you felt the need to explain the rationale behind seeking an alliance. It seems fairly self-evident. But it seems that whichever side can find a way to get past the interdiction fleets into the enemy's main population and industrial centers wins. How much are the Loroi willing to pay to gain that knowledge?

Additionally military independence isn't something you want when you are throwing your lot in AGAINST someone who can easily kick your ass, insisting on that will likely result in the Loroi stationing fewer ships with us and letting us call for help when we get attacked, that weakends our position instead of strengthening it.

It is better to be the Yugoslavia or China to the Loroi's USSR, than to be the Hungary or Czechoslovakia to the Loroi's USSR.

[GeoModder]

It is better to be the Yugoslavia or China to the Loroi's USSR, than to be the Hungary or Czechoslovakia to the Loroi's USSR.

Well, if you compare it population wise, we're definitely in the Yugoslavia range compared to Loroi's USSR.

[VictorValor]

Well, if you compare it population wise, we're definitely in the Yugoslavia range compared to Loroi's USSR.

My point is that without military autonomy, Humanity would be subject to the whims of the Loroi. It doesn't matter how much money you have or how much of the economy you control, if the Loroi Emperor can just decide, "Lol, I own you now". To quote the Kipling Poem, "Iron, Cold Iron, rules all." Also, I can't believe none of you have spotted the Half-Life 2 reference.

[GeoModder]

Your point was already clear. Question is then, why haven't the Loroi already done that with other members of the Union, like the neridi, Pipolsid, or Barsam?

[Jericho]

Your point was already clear. Question is then, why haven't the Loroi already done that with other members of the Union, like the neridi, Pipolsid, or Barsam?

1. The barsam tough formally a warrior culture is devoted to peace and brotherhood. They have a certain rivalry with the loroi but that is mostly theological than political or militarily, they are more concerned that the loroi see themselves as the chosen people of god. They however support the union wholeheartedly as it is in line with their religous and cultural practises (it supports their church after all).

2. Neither the neridi nor the pipolsid are warriors. The neridi goes as far as officially endorsing the view of loroi dominion. There is no need to enforce yourself with violence if your subjects surrender willingly.

3. The loroi routinely uses military force to keep the other subjects in line who are less inclined to be obidient such as the delrias, arekka, mannadi. All of them members through conquest, non of them are allowed to leave due the hundreds of ships pointing their guns to their worlds.

4. When I first joined the forum there was a discussion of this in the loroi sexuality thread. There where tow views that contrasted one another:

a) Held by fredgiblet was that humanity should and would benefit from willing integration (surrender) in to union. Accept loroi leadership and residing ourselves to the role of court magicians (in his words) happily doing science in the background to please our new overladies (NERDS!!!!).

b) The other view held by very cool guys (Jericho himself) is that independence was to be maintained at all cost due to the stark contrasts and detremental effects their presence would have on our society.

This undbiased and scientific analysis was brought to you by a guy who is very biased and generally a prick.

[GeoModder]

This undbiased and scientific analysis was brought to you by a guy who is very biased and generally a prick.

Anyway, I still don't see why the Loroi would subjugate humanity if they haven't done so with other main members of the Union, which are (certainly at this stage) more key to their survival.

[Jericho]

This undbiased and scientific analysis was brought to you by a guy who is very biased and generally a prick.

Anyway, I still don't see why the Loroi would subjugate humanity if they haven't done so with other main members of the Union, which are (certainly at this stage) more key to their survival.

As i said before you don't need to subjugate those who willingly surrender. The problems arise only where your interest collides with the loroi's interest. If the barsam where a military culture with ambitions of an empire of their own (like the nissek) the friction between them would be greater than it is now. Now they are simply bickering about religous matters essentially.

You must understand that with the anti neutrality doctrine of the loroi all other species are given a false choice. Essentially you work for them or you die, unsurprisingly most chose to serve rather than to die.

And they have subjugated those that opposed them. Do you think the arekka are in this war cause they want to or the delrias. No they are in it because the loroi said so and if they argue they get shot.

Now humanity have two choices in this series:

1) Surrender willingly to the hopefully victorious party. This some might say is not surrendering but negotiating our membership in our coalition but thats just bullshit. It's surrendering your sovereignty no matter how you name it.

2) Resist and perish at the hands of whoever finds us first.

To summarise: You don't need to use lethal force against those who do what you tell them to do willingly. To subjugate means to essentially take control of another group and dictate their lives at your leasure. The loroi are interesting in this regard that they prefer to rule at swords length. If you pay tribute and don't question than everything will be fine if you don't they will make you do it.
However the end result is always the same, the loroi wont respect other nations sovereignty. If the barsam tried to pull out of the war you bet that the would frown on that and do a proper adjustment to the barsam goverment. The only races that have anything to say on the matter are the historians and nissek and both because the loroi can't bully them with force of arm.

Humanity is a very poor spot because we are more of a threat than we are of beneficial to the loroi. we are the most telepathically resistant species they know of, to the point that their main weapon the far sensors are useless against us. Against us the loroi are just another army like any other.

We are also one of the fastest growing species in the region. We have done in centuries what they could not do for millenia and thats without assistance of a former galactic empire. With an antimatter reactor and fuel refinement schematics we could in decades come to the point where we would technologically be a threat to them. if they don't take control over us they will have species that not only have the numbers and the guns to oppose them. We will have the edge because as the mannadi occupation and the semoset proved, the loroi simply aren't very adept at fightning without their telepathy winning battles for them. If they have learned their lessons well they will put a stop to it before it becomes an issue to begin with and since in this series it's subjugation or death humanity must be subjugated or destroyed.

[Mackus]

It is precisely because humans are immune to main Loroi advantage (telepathy), humanity should ally with them. Neither side would be inclined to be gracious to their ally on principle for helping them win the war (there would be no need to, winner would be undisputed master of the sector), but with Loroi, difference in strength wouldn't be so big. And combined with huge distances, and problems with logistics over war at that huge distances (that would not be as huge problem for Humanity's expeditionary force, since things like shipyards, repair docks, refuel stations would be already in Loroi space, it would be matter of adapting them for mutual compatibility) would be difficult enough for attacker. Loroi would be more inclined to leave humanity alone, or very least offer them good terms for joining Union. And way before that, Humanity must get as much tech from both sides as it can get away with for merely joining war.
Assuming humanity can tip scale either way.

But really, in the end, is there option any other than one that allows to show readers as much space babes as possible?
Of course humanity with align with Loroi.

[fredgiblet]

in this series it's subjugation or death humanity must be subjugated or destroyed.

Exactly. They will not allow us the chance to act freely because we will be a massive threat in not too long, especially since they will be worn out after the war, assuming they win, for some time. They can't allow us to be in a position to fight them, and if we look like we may become a threat to their dominance I think ti's quite likely we'll find ourselves in a war before we are prepared for it. If we "surrender" then we will have the ability to act from the inside and gain an enormous degree of influence through economic and scientific activity and the Loroi are likely to largely leave us alone as they will likely realize that enforcing their own social codes on us will destroy our value for no gain.

[Mr.Tucker]

Hmmph, I've just noticed some wording that spooks me out: "The Nissek prefer to keep their forces local to defend their own territory against threats that have nothing to do with the Loroi, and for the most part the Loroi have been content to let them have their way. " I look at the maps and I ask: is there anything special (and non-spoilery ) we could know about the Ninnil Gap?

[Arioch]

Hmmph, I've just noticed some wording that spooks me out: "The Nissek prefer to keep their forces local to defend their own territory against threats that have nothing to do with the Loroi, and for the most part the Loroi have been content to let them have their way. " I look at the maps and I ask: is there anything special (and non-spoilery) we could know about the Ninnil Gap?

It is known that there are civilizations on the other side of Nissek territory, and it's known that the Nissek have had conflicts with them, but that's something that the Nissek keep mostly to themselves, and it's outside the scope of the current war.

[sunphoenix]

However, if a powerful telepathic (or psychokinetic) individual is dangerously, untreatably insane, there may be no options other than euthanasia.

Yeah a insane paranoid schizophrenic, or sociopathic, or even a personality disorder exhibiting schizotypal behavior with powerful psychokinesis or worse powerful telepathy that might induce others to insanity would be a threat that could not be simply counseled and euthanasia would be best... sadly.

I coined the term 'Black Sanzai' to describe such sad patients {hopelessly insane and dangerous with powerful telepathy/psychokinesis}...

Do the Loroi have a actual term to identify an insane telepathy/psychokinetic? I'm pretty sure such an occurrence of a Loroi who can't be mentally treated to help them MUST be rare...

Any answer to this Arioch... or is that spoiler territory?

[Arioch]

Yeah a insane paranoid schizophrenic, or sociopathic, or even a personality disorder exhibiting schizotypal behavior with powerful psychokinesis or worse powerful telepathy that might induce others to insanity would be a threat that could not be simply counseled and euthanasia would be best... sadly.

I coined the term 'Black Sanzai' to describe such sad patients {hopelessly insane and dangerous with powerful telepathy/psychokinesis}...

Do the Loroi have a actual term to identify an insane telepathy/psychokinetic? I'm pretty sure such an occurrence of a Loroi who can't be mentally treated to help them MUST be rare...

I had started a response that was turning into an essay (and a particularly dark one), so I abandoned it and then the question got lost up the feed. The short answer is that I'm not sure what they would call something like this.

In a telepathic society, it's unlikely that an insane individual would make it to adulthood (and the levels of power required to become dangerous) without anyone finding out and taking corrective action. I think most cases of dangerous insanity would be those in which an adult breaks under pressure from trauma, usually associated with combat, and that's a sticky subject in a warrior culture.

"Black Sending" implies that there's something unusual about the telepathy itself, which isn't the case. What you're probably looking for is remir sanzadi, which means "Dark Sender."

[saint of m]

What would happen if somehow a Human became Telapathic (work with me here).

How would the Loroi Handle that.


Fireblade: Beryl, Why is his thoughts of me in a spots bra?


Beryl: Well, you see...


Fireblade: Never mind, he just found a memory of his Humanity primitive Calender.




Or would it be something like this?


Still Storm: Take off the device! His random thoughts have no order, nor reason!

Loroi Scientist: I Like Potatoes.

Still Storm: No, his species insanity has is spreading!

[Grayhome]

I had started a response that was turning into an essay (and a particularly dark one), so I abandoned it and then the question got lost up the feed. The short answer is that I'm not sure what they would call something like this.

In a telepathic society, it's unlikely that an insane individual would make it to adulthood (and the levels of power required to become dangerous) without anyone finding out and taking corrective action. I think most cases of dangerous insanity would be those in which an adult breaks under pressure from trauma, usually associated with combat, and that's a sticky subject in a warrior culture.

"Black Sending" implies that there's something unusual about the telepathy itself, which isn't the case. What you're probably looking for is remir sanzadi, which means "Dark Sender."

Oh you have piqued my curiosity! Tell us more! Is there a taboo of telepathy that we have yet to hear of? Something that can be revealed that does not give spoilers? Dark techniques, myths legends or horror stories? Monsters and demons and angels?

[sunphoenix]

Yeah a insane paranoid schizophrenic, or sociopathic, or even a personality disorder exhibiting schizotypal behavior with powerful psychokinesis or worse powerful telepathy that might induce others to insanity would be a threat that could not be simply counseled and euthanasia would be best... sadly.

I coined the term 'Black Sanzai' to describe such sad patients {hopelessly insane and dangerous with powerful telepathy/psychokinesis}...

Do the Loroi have a actual term to identify an insane telepathy/psychokinetic? I'm pretty sure such an occurrence of a Loroi who can't be mentally treated to help them MUST be rare...

I had started a response that was turning into an essay (and a particularly dark one), so I abandoned it and then the question got lost up the feed. The short answer is that I'm not sure what they would call something like this.

In a telepathic society, it's unlikely that an insane individual would make it to adulthood (and the levels of power required to become dangerous) without anyone finding out and taking corrective action. I think most cases of dangerous insanity would be those in which an adult breaks under pressure from trauma, usually associated with combat, and that's a sticky subject in a warrior culture.

"Black Sending" implies that there's something unusual about the telepathy itself, which isn't the case. What you're probably looking for is remir sanzadi, which means "Dark Sender."

Oh My! Yes indeed, I too am interested in your... "response that was turning into an essay"... even if it was dark... I'm curious as to your thoughts on the subject!

[RedDwarfIV]

Out of interest, why do the thrusters on the Highland not point through the centre of mass? The way they're pointed, they should flip end over end when they fire.