Jericho wrote:First: Keeping a secret is way easier than obtaining the truth. If you don't want them to find out then don't talk to them. without faster than light sensors keeping track on what happens in a system without fleet in every corner. I don't think they'll commit that large of a force to one species if they are smart by your standards. Unless they immediately suspect that we are planning something behind their back and are a threat worhty of considiration they'll be none the wiser. and don't bother with spies alien informants aren't that efficient.
Too late, we are talking to them. The Loroi will have a presence in our systems, they will have to since the Umiak are likely to run into us in the near future. At minimum we'll have a small task force, likely we'll have that task force plus a constant trickle of cargo ships going all over the place. They also have plenty of reason to have scouts staging from our systems as expansion is an ongoing process. They already have strong reasons to distrust us and though we don't, yet, pose a direct military threat to them our abilities will make us a threat if we get technological parity. They can prevent us from gaining technological parity, but if they're going to do that they might as well kill us since it will be easier and keeping us from teching up will eliminate our greatest value.
Second: You must motivate to me how they'll find out. Since your entire argument is based on the assumption that they do but you never explain why. Please don't bother responding if you can't answer this one point.
The operation you're talking about is enormous, building a fleet that is capable of taking on the Loroi is going to require hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of people and tens of thousands of tons of material. You're proposing we'll move all of that without being noticed. As I stated before the Loroi will have a presence in our systems, they will be here and they WILL be watching everything we do unless we gain a LOT of trust in a short time. If we build your fleet in our main systems the Loroi won't even have to work to see it, if we build them in a un-settled system we now have dozens more shipments going to a supposedly empty system then we had going before, and of course the Loroi will accept any explanation we give at face value and not take a look, right? No, they'll be poking around all the time, their fleets will make rounds and check border systems, their scouts and cargo ships will be going through our systems all the time
Third: So what if it's going to take time. Time is on our side. You do not know how long this war will last. As long as the loroi are going strong we're winning because the longer the war takes the more time we have to strengthen ourselves. The only problem with moving materials and equipment is if the loroi know how much we can produce for them and they're suspecting we arent filling the bill. Again how would they know.
Time isn't on our side. Every day there's another chance for the Loroi to stumble on our magically hidden shipbuilding facilities, another day where our economies become more interdependent, another day where we have people growing more comfortable with the status quo and less interested in changing it, another day for a new generation to grow up who don't see a problem with being part of the Loroi Union another day for our politicians to get an offer they can't refuse from the Loroi. Or worse, another day where we're holding back and the Loroi are losing (unless you think the Umiak are a better choice). Time is NOT on our side.
Fifth: I don't know if you are arguing for my position or against me. You say that if the loroi are smart they'll leave us to handle our own affairs. How does this not help my position? You've just presented the window of opportunity for exactly what i'm proposing.
They aren't going to meddle (much) in our culture, obviously their presence will have an effect, and I highly doubt that our controllers (as in the people behind our OWN cultural development) won't make a few Loroi celebrities in human society and those will of course be used by the Loroi as well. But they aren't going to be telling us much in the way of how we have to live our lives. They WILL be watching, constantly. Earth will probably end up with a concentration of Mizol higher than any other planet except Perrein, most of them likely disguised as civilian contractors of their own. We will probably have more freedom than their other client races, but the cost of that will be that we will be analyzed more than their other client races.
Jericho wrote:As i said in the very same piece that you conviently ignored they aren't that effective. A spies efficiency is determined by their ability to blend in to the society. I would think there is nothing easier than preventing an alien spy access to information that you don't want them have.
It's not as simple as that. Do you think Robert Hanssen didn't know he was dealing with Russians? The Loroi will have a more difficult time sneaking in, sure, but the most damaging breaches have usually been when someone who was already in switched sides. Additionally unless you're going the Trantor route and claiming we'll get the Historians to give us tech the Loroi don't NEED to sneak in, they'll already be a major part of our STEM fields for some time. We could, of course, kick them out the second we reach parity, that won't be suspicious at all.
True but isn't that the case of every major operation regardless. There are of course operating procedures and protocols in place to make sure that one traitor can't do anything withput arousing suspicion among their peers.
ALL they would have to do is find a Loroi and say "we're building a fleet". You can't prevent them from doing that without either cloistering them for the entire time the project takes or never letting a Loroi speak with a human. Good luck finding hundreds of thousands of people willing to agree to spend the next 10 years of their lives working in a complete blackout. The procedures you're talking about might prevent them from knowing how many, might prevent them from knowing exactly where, but the Loroi don't need that information, all they need is the knowledge that it's happening, they can make the rest come to light.
Jericho wrote:And traitors... really? What would they offer us that would convince anyone that it's a good idea to jepordise their nations future, their career, their families safety etc etc.
Simple, all they have to do is find someone who thinks that what YOU are proposing jeopardizes their nations future, their career and the their families safety. It won't be hard since what you're proposing DOES. You can argue that it's the better choice of course, but not everyone will see it that way.
As for what they are offering, you've got all the same things that people turn for now, money, love (or sex) and power.