What to Do with Jardin (Fan Fic)

[dragoongfa]

It's like that. Two points:

1) Bell - RESEARCH ship, not the military. Googling standards for research technics of the same NASA. Somehow I don't think that the practice of over 100 years radically changed, so what could be on warship - on the research vessel appears as a receiver for a deck of cards in the modern computer.

2) Outside fucking 2160-th year. The newest space scout, designed for deep space exploration completed with equipment on which people worked around 2000, with some exceptions. I don't know about you, but for me, the writing of the above paragraphs is mutually exclusive, and not just have them in stock.

Purely hypothetically, filling the spaceship must be double - the latest at the time of construction of the system for normal operation and the most reliable solid stuff that can somehow work in an environment where not working everything else. In the event of a sudden polar fox. Completed the ship only the second set - idiocy, if not worse. Because of this depends directly on the efficiency of ship operation in the normal mode, in which case it will be extremely low. Meaning?

The main problem with your assumption is that the technology you see is practically the same technology as today which for all intents and purposes it shouldn't be.

The most glaring example that most people don't notice are the TCA space suits and how lightweight and most importantly flexible they are when compared with their current equivalents which have visually and practically remained unchanged since the earliest days of space flight. That's a crucial piece of equipment that has visually remained unchanged for more the better part of a century already due to the limitations of technology to that particular field. Yet for all their similarities the space suits of today are not the space suits of the 1960s, they are made from other materials, with different techniques and they have different performance characteristics. The reason they are visually identical is because the human inside is identical with the same wants and needs in regards to their operation while the technology still still hasn't advanced enough to offer better size, weight and flexibility characteristics.

Yes, the bridge is operated by touch screen flat panels but you don't know how more advanced the technology behind them is when compared with their modern equivalent; the fact that they remain visually recognizable doesn't mean anything other than the fact that the human wants and needs are similar to the one's of today. The technology is undoubtedly related but that doesn't mean that the 2160 counterpart of the touch screen flat panel is technologically identical with the ones of today (that are known for the their unreliability which is why the military doesn't want to be anywhere near them for now).

[Mr Bojangles]

Am I derping? Who was Sedel again?

Sedel is Tempo's spoken name in Loroi Trade.

I could buy Helium-3 fusion, but not hydrogen fusion. Either way though, antimatter seems far more likely, since Bellarmine's bingo point was at least 10 jumps plus system loiter time away from her tanker, and the Bell was not a gargantutanic, 95% fuel space vessel, like a ship from Traveler. Liquid hydrogen and helium both are not very dense fuels, antimatter is.

Remember, it's not just 2160 with Human development - it's 2160 after they took in the Orgus, which would certainly have included reverse-engineering the Orgus's ship.

Plus, Bell's explosion looks an awful damn lot like Winter Tide's to me.

I'm just going by what Arioch has said. Outsider humanity doesn't use M/AM reactors; they haven't reached that level. Though, based on discussions here in the forum, humanity's probably no more than a century behind the Loroi and if they join with the Loroi war effort, the window will shrink. It could very well be that Bellarmine uses He-3 fusion with LH as reaction mass. I don't think we've actually discussed what kind of fusion humanity uses yet.

That the explosions looked so similar probably had more to do with artistic license than what sort of fuel exploded.

Also, did you miss Alex and Kelly quoting The Seventy Maxims of Maximally Effective Mercenaries to each other?

Nope, I definitely smiled when I saw it. But, fullerened AM made think of a certain pair of epaulets and I just had to comment.

[dragoongfa]

Just finished binging what you have written already (as a rule of thumb I don't start reading something until it has progressed a little); ShadowDragon your writing speed is certainly faster than mine and I am a little jealous that you make so few written mistakes when compared with me

Well done so far on the creativity and 'showing' department.

[ShadowDragon8685]

This should become the soundtrack for this entire Fanfic:

I've actually been using Ace Combat soundtracks, most especially The Unsung War, and also the theme to the Wing Commander movie they made that was incredibly cheesy and not remotely Wing Commander but had good music, and the soundtrack (Both the OST and composed music) to Wing Commander Prophecy.

That's really good, though.

Though. One thing constantly bothers me. If one removed the hybrids from the story..this could actually very well be an extremely well written serious fanfic that actually follows canon.

It bothers me, too, but I'm working with what I've been given. That's why I'm trying to work around it, either blaming it on that Hos'te Blec LSD-hyperViagra drink, or trying to work out some way for Loroi bodies to be tricked into asexually reproducing by human sperm.

I know this started as a crack-fic but it seems it is slowly and surely gaining a life of its own and becoming actually something I would love to see ending only when an older Fireblade is standing in front Alex's grave..many centuries later. I would love to see this becoming a Grand Space Opera Journey Across The Stars story. Not just a short tale.

Are you sure it would be Fireblade in front of Alex's grave, and not the other way 'round? Hint: I am a huge fan of Eclipse Phase.
(Though if humanity in WtDwJ went full Eclipse Phase transhumanism, I would imagine that arbitrarily extending the life of/resleeving a Loroi would be as "easy" as doing the same with a human.)

A story..that could become incredibly epic, with deeply detailed characters and universe..just waiting for a reader to reach out with his mind and place himself into one in a Mass Effect/Babylon 5/Homeworld/Firefly Space Opera kind of way.

Blame Arioch.

One thing is for certain. Before, I couldn't put my thoughts into the mind of a Loroi.

Even after reading the Insider article I wasn't capable of doing that.

But now?

This story explained them into actual breathing thinking beings for my imagination..the same way I can inhabit my imagination with Humans..I can do this with Loroi now..in all their individual glory, their needs and wants, their dreams and nightmares, their virtues and good but also vices and sin, their love and hatred, their passions and logic. Before I could see and understand them as 3D characters. After this story I can now see them as flesh and blood..mind and soul..like I can my fellow Humans. They have become alive for me.

Thank you. It's a challenge, possibly moreso than writing a starfish alien, because they are so humanlike, not just in form but in psychology. The story of Jardin and his friends could just as easily be the story of a modern-day dude from California transported back to Sengoku Jedai-era Japan. Psychologically speaking, they are extremely alien, because their culture is so different from ours; and at the same time, intrinsically humanlike, with largely the same broad strokes being applicable. Fireblade seems extreme in her militarism, and she both is and is meant to be, but she's no more extreme than, say, General George S. Patton, who wanted "Nuke 'em!" to become the U.S. army's first offensive option, and to stay on the offensive until the USSR and China, whom he perceived as the next big threats, were completely cowed, before they had nukes of their own.

That's why Alex has bonded with them all so hard, and why the Cydonia Loroi have bonded so tightly with their human rescuers. Once you've accepted that no, they're not a trick of the enemy, it's hard not to see them as freakish kin.

(Of course, their biological and telepathic differences also account for a huge amount of this, so it's not a perfect comparison. Other similes would be Elves from Lord of the Rings - ancient, older than you, and better than you. Or at least, that's how Loroi like to think they are.)

[sunphoenix]

This should become the soundtrack for this entire Fanfic:


Though. One thing constantly bothers me. If one removed the hybrids from the story..this could actually very well be an extremely well written serious fanfic that actually follows canon.

I know this started as a crack-fic but it seems it is slowly and surely gaining a life of its own and becoming actually something I would love to see ending only when an older Fireblade is standing in front Alex's grave..many centuries later. I would love to see this becoming a Grand Space Opera Journey Across The Stars story. Not just a short tale.

A story..that could become incredibly epic, with deeply detailed characters and universe..just waiting for a reader to reach out with his mind and place himself into one in a Mass Effect/Babylon 5/Homeworld/Firefly Space Opera kind of way.

One thing is for certain. Before, I couldn't put my thoughts into the mind of a Loroi.

Even after reading the Insider article I wasn't capable of doing that.

But now?

This story explained them into actual breathing thinking beings for my imagination..the same way I can inhabit my imagination with Humans..I can do this with Loroi now..in all their individual glory, their needs and wants, their dreams and nightmares, their virtues and good but also vices and sin, their love and hatred, their passions and logic. Before I could see and understand them as 3D characters. After this story I can now see them as flesh and blood..mind and soul..like I can my fellow Humans. They have become alive for me.

I'm glad we have been able to enhance your feel and enjoyment of the Outsider Comic Durabys... though my contribution is admittedly rather small. lol.

[ShadowDragon8685]

By the way, did anybody actually read that big list o' ships and classes, or did errybody's eyes just gloss over it? Did anybody notice the new classes listed or wonder about them, or does nobody give a damn about that kind of thing and I should stop obsessing over such?

[sunphoenix]

lol. I read them.. like to know the difference between them.. I'm expecting its armament and mission specialty. Do any of them mount screens or are they too small? I remember hearing Fireblade mention that Jardin's squadron to Corvettes could lay waste the the entire surface of a planet.. so I guess they have Launchers or is it catapults for dropping Ortillery? How much ordinace stores can they carry being that small?

[ShadowDragon8685]

lol. I read them.. like to know the difference between them.. I'm expecting its armament and mission specialty. Do any of them mount screens or are they too small? I remember hearing Fireblade mention that Jardin's squadron to Corvettes could lay waste the the entire surface of a planet.. so I guess they have Launchers or is it catapults for dropping Ortillery? How much ordinace stores can they carry being that small?

The TCA could lay waste to the surface of an entire planet, too, assuming that nobody was there to stop them. Hell, you don't even need more than to find a couple of nice, big asteroids and accelerate them into an orbit more suitable to your designs. That's not the most efficient way to do the job, but it works just fine.

[Absalom]

Another interesting addition, Shadow.

To add to what dragoon and Tamri have said, humans in Outsider don't yet have the tech to produce antimatter on an industrial scale. The Loroi and Umiak do, but they actually use an exotic matter annihilation process - if I recall the forum discussions correctly, it's as energetic as a typical M/AM reaction (or nearly so), but slightly easier to store. It's called 'taimat' in the Lexicon.

I assume that the reaction products are more convenient, too: as I recall, normal M/AM reactions produce neutrinos, thereby wasting energy, and some of the processes suggested for engines are supposed to produce similar inefficiencies. If you can get mostly photonic energy results, that would suddenly bring the usefulness of anti-matter much closer to the hype.

All things considered the inside of the Bellarmine may seem anachronistic but from a military PoV it is to be expected that the equipment will technologically be the most reliable that the TCA can offer and that means technology that will be considered horribly obsolete by the civilian sectors.

I understand there to still be satellites in orbit using bubble memory. In fact, I think the stuff's actually still available for the purpose.

It's like that. Two points:

1) Bell - RESEARCH ship, not the military. Googling standards for research technics of the same NASA. Somehow I don't think that the practice of over 100 years radically changed, so what could be on warship - on the research vessel appears as a receiver for a deck of cards in the modern computer.

Which sounds like a great piece of logic, except that there were pieces of digital equipment that were never replaced on the shuttle for the sake of reducing the chances of unpredicted problems. Also, NASA hasn't bee a spectacular example of how to actually get things done since they started the shuttle program: all that could really be said to favor it's final design over alternates is that it got the military to support it long enough to build the thing.

2) Outside fucking 2160-th year. The newest space scout, designed for deep space exploration completed with equipment on which people worked around 2000, with some exceptions. I don't know about you, but for me, the writing of the above paragraphs is mutually exclusive, and not just have them in stock.

Purely hypothetically, filling the spaceship must be double - the latest at the time of construction of the system for normal operation and the most reliable solid stuff that can somehow work in an environment where not working everything else.

When you want it to work, you identify a core set of features, and focus on high reliability within those features. Then you add other things only if they don't undermine those core features. Advanced equipment is nice, but reliable equipment is necessary, and if it's advanced then it's probably going to be changed out on a regular basis, raising the question of why you thought it was wise to base the ship around it.

Advanced tech isn't for use in ship systems unless necessary, and even then you focus on making it reliable. Instead, ship systems are to support advanced tech, so that the infrastructure will be reliable.

I think this boils down to how Outsider is set up. Fusion is enough to propel a ship, power inertial dampeners/gravity generators, and, most importantly, charge up a jump drive. Those are the basics of becoming a space-faring race in this 'verse. AM would certainly be a better, more potent fuel, but humanity hasn't yet reached that point.

It wasn't helium in the tanks, it was liquid hydrogen. Catastrophic failure of the pressure vessels would result in pretty impressive explosion without anything having to fuse or annihilate; the nearby LOX tanks would help to make a nice fireball. This was really good for Alex, considering he was more than close enough to the wreck that a fusion or annie explosion would have vaporized him.

I could buy Helium-3 fusion, but not hydrogen fusion. Either way though, antimatter seems far more likely, since Bellarmine's bingo point was at least 10 jumps plus system loiter time away from her tanker, and the Bell was not a gargantutanic, 95% fuel space vessel, like a ship from Traveler. Liquid hydrogen and helium both are not very dense fuels, antimatter is.

I would buy this logic for the military arm of the TCA, but the Scout Corp is interested in distant things, likely making in-region-refueling valuable... and hydrogen is easier to get from arbitrary sources than helium is. You can always resort to cracking water from comets, after all. So, if the Bellarmine could be hydrogen powered, then it probably was hydrogen powered, simply because it's an easier-to-find fuel source. I have no doubt that there's even an old Scout Corp proposal floating around for ultra-long-distance missions with smaller crews & a self-support capacity.

Remember, it's not just 2160 with Human development - it's 2160 after they took in the Orgus, which would certainly have included reverse-engineering the Orgus's ship.

The Bennet class existed before contact, and the passengers mostly didn't know how to build what they used. There'll be tech improvements, but the great bulk will come out with the next classes of ships, not the current ones (Mjolnir development will presumably be aided, though).

[ShadowDragon8685]

I would buy this logic for the military arm of the TCA, but the Scout Corp is interested in distant things, likely making in-region-refueling valuable... and hydrogen is easier to get from arbitrary sources than helium is. You can always resort to cracking water from comets, after all. So, if the Bellarmine could be hydrogen powered, then it probably was hydrogen powered, simply because it's an easier-to-find fuel source. I have no doubt that there's even an old Scout Corp proposal floating around for ultra-long-distance missions with smaller crews & a self-support capacity.

This fails the plausibility test. You need a few things to do in-situ fusion reactor refueling, none of which the Bell exhibited:
You need the ability to gather the fuel. This would mean either fuck-huge ramscoops and the ability to safely fly under main drive power/carry atmospheric engines in the atmosphere of a gas giant, or you would need big-ass mining equipment to cuddle up to a comet.
You need the ability to store the fuel, and whether you're getting it in-situ or from an unreasonably huge tanker, helium, let alone hydrogen, only compress so damn much, even to a liquid state. You would need enormous cryogenic tanks to store liquid hydrogen and helium. Bellarmine would need to be at least half fuel tank to have a bingo range of ten+ jumps, if she were powered by hydrogen fusion reactors, and that's being generous; it would probably be more like 80% fuel tank.

Bell just isn't big enough for a fusion reactor to fuel her, whether she was capable of in-situ refueling or reliant on the tanker. Also, if she were capable of in-situ refueling, she wouldn't need the tanker except for crew consumables, and you can damn well pack at least a year's supply of that for 80 people in a ship the size of Bellarmine. If that were the case, and she were capable of ISRU, her bingo range wouldn't be expressed as jumps away from the tanker, it would be time spent away from food supplies.

The Bennet class existed before contact, and the passengers mostly didn't know how to build what they used. There'll be tech improvements, but the great bulk will come out with the next classes of ships, not the current ones (Mjolnir development will presumably be aided, though).

Doesn't mean they couldn't have refitted her. If she was the size she was, in fusion drive tech, she'd only probably have a bingo range of two jumps from the tanker, but slot an antimatter reactor in there and bam, ten+ jumps.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Also, for those who actually care (I.E. sunphoenix), here are the stats for the refit corvettes. The refit classes are all quite new/newly refurbished vessels on the older chassis. They have received power plant, accumulator, and heat management upgrades to handle some heavier kit than they used to and are, for all intents and purposes, straight upgrades, equal to or superior to the base chassis in every way.

It is a shooting war. Advance and upgrade, or die ignominiously.

For the sake of reference, I've also included the stats of the original Herald and Hidden Dagger.

SpoilerShow

Herald ("Mallas")
        Class: Courier Corvette (CT)
        Length: 200 m
        Crew: 60
        Screens: Class I
        Max. Acceleration: 35 G
        Armor Rating: 30
        ECM Rating: 130

        Weapon Mounts
                02x3 Laser Autocannon

        Note: These small, fast, minimally-armed vessels are used in large numbers for courier duty. Because of the lack of FTL communications, messages must be carried from one system to another via ship.


Zoshriel ("Traveler") (Refit Herald)
        Class: Courier Corvette (CT+)
        Length: 200m
        Crew: 50
        Screens: Class II
        Max. Acceleration: 35 G
        Armor Rating: 35
        ECM Rating: 160

        Weapon Mounts
                02x3 Laser Autocannon
                01x2 Light Blaster
                01x1 Medium Blaster

        Note: A refit of the standard CT courier-class corvette, the Traveler is better protected and better armed, whilst increased automation allows for a slightly smaller crew compliment; the crew space difference is used to allow for VIP cabins. It is used primarily as a jump-capable VIP transport analogous to a Highland-class pinnace's non-jump usages, but also sees some light combat duty as wingcraft for Blaze-class Frigates and Curved Knife-class Destroyers.

Demen ("Catapult") (Refit Herald)
        Class: Missile Corvette (CTd)
        Length: 200m
        Crew: 60
        Screens: Class II
        Max. Acceleration: 35 G
        Armor Rating: 33
        ECM Rating: 175

        Weapon Mounts
                02x3 Laser Autocannon
                02x02 Anti-Missile Launcher

        Payload:
        24* AMM Missiles
                *Number includes four in the tubes. Magazine space for 20.

        Note: A refit of the standard CT courier-class corvette, the Catapult is a missile cutter specced out to add firepower to the opening salvos of fleet missile engagements, aiding in blunting the Hierarchy's torpedo-wave attacks. It carries fewer missiles than any frigate or destroyer, but can actually fire those it does carry faster. In a small ship engagement, it in theory can force a small Umiak vessel to defend itself against the missiles, leaving itself vulnerable to the corvette's guns, but in practice the Umiak ignore the missiles, shoot the corvette, and try to trade one small ship for another.

Hidden Dagger ("Saboide")
        Class: Scout Corvette (SC)
        Length: 150 m
        Crew: 45
        Screens: Class I
        Max. Acceleration: 34 G
        Armor Rating: 33
        ECM Rating: 150

        Weapon Mounts
                02x3 Laser Autocannon

        Note: The smallest, cheapest jump-capable vessel in the Loroi fleet, the scout corvette is used for picket, recon or short-range courier duty.

Dedel ("Sidearm") (Refit Hidden Dagger)
        Class: Scout Corvette (CS+)
        Length: 150m
        Crew: 45
        Screens: Class II
        Max. Acceleration: 35 G
        Armor Rating: 38
        ECM Rating: 160

        Weapon Mounts
                04x3 Laser Autocannon

        Note: A refit of the standard CS scout-class corvette, the Sidearm quite simply packs exactly twice as many lasers. It serves the same general purposes as the Hidden Dagger, and the design is a simple, straightforward uggrade. In fleet engagements, it is intended to be deployed alongside frigates and destroyers for added protection against Umiak missile and torpedo swarms.


Nomina ("Gladius") (Refit Hidden Dagger)
        Class: Scout Corvette (CSg)
        Length: 150m
        Crew: 45
        Screens: Class II
        Max. Acceleration: 35 G
        Armor Rating: 38
        ECM Rating: 160

        Weapon Mounts
                02x3 Laser Autocannon
                01x2 Heavy Blaster (Fixed-Forward)

        Note: A refit of the standard CS scout-class corvette, the Gladius is a small ship packing a lot of hurt for its size. Small and nimble, the fixed-forward nature of its heavy blasters are little drawback, and they give it the ship-rending punch of a Curved Knife-class destroyer's heavy guns. In a fleet engagement, the Nomina-class corvette is designed to be deployed in numbers to blunt the effect of Umiak wedges, racing out after the Umiak have already picked a target and tearing into Umiak large vessels at close range.

[sunphoenix]

Very nice.. I like the strategic design philosophy...

So the shells want to flood us with missile we can't ignore so they can close to Plasma Focus range... while I cruiser are shooting missile down instead of them?

Fine..we'll just make a shit-ton of little corvettes that can screen the big cruisers with a multitude of gunfire to blunt those missile barrages allowing the big cruisers to stay focused on your big slow battlewagons while you're trying to close. Then when you finally get here.. we have a crap-ton of fast super agile cutters to swarm you with~ that start cutting the ribbons out of your hides... while our Big cruisers keep pounding the hell out of you!

Keep on coming bug-head.. our guns are awaiting and HUNGRY!

[Durabys]

Are you sure it would be Fireblade in front of Alex's grave, and not the other way 'round? Hint: I am a huge fan of Eclipse Phase.
(Though if humanity in WtDwJ went full Eclipse Phase transhumanism, I would imagine that arbitrarily extending the life of/resleeving a Loroi would be as "easy" as doing the same with a human.)

And I am a fan of Iain Banks? Your point?

The issue is that TransHuman Space (the other RPG setting from the same era like Early Traveler) themes would clash with the Traveler themes of Outsider. Traveler is about the journey into the society and politics of civilizations..human or alien. TransHuman Space is about the stories of interactions of technology and science with the society and politics.

Of course! I would have personally also loved if the final epilogue chapter was Alexander holding hands with Fireblade..both smiling at the sunset..ten millennia from now.

I still think that genetic upgrades like what the Culture can do for its organic citizens..aka: Biological Immortality..are more doable in Outsider then uploading into a new and better meat puppet.

Everyone hop onto the Trans-Sapient/Post-Sapient Train! CHOO CHOO! Motherfuckers.

[Sweforce]

By the way, did anybody actually read that big list o' ships and classes, or did errybody's eyes just gloss over it? Did anybody notice the new classes listed or wonder about them, or does nobody give a damn about that kind of thing and I should stop obsessing over such?

I did an came to think about missile ordinance. Since those missile use antimatter both as fuel and warhead, did they consider plundering them for fuel to the ships? They did leave ships behind after all.

[Durabys]

Very nice.. I like the strategic design philosophy...

So the shells want to flood us with missile we can't ignore so they can close to Plasma Focus range... while I cruiser are shooting missile down instead of them?

Fine..we'll just make a shit-ton of little corvettes that can screen the big cruisers with a multitude of gunfire to blunt those missile barrages allowing the big cruisers to stay focused on your big slow battlewagons while you're trying to close. Then when you finally get here.. we have a crap-ton of fast super agile cutters to swarm you with~ that start cutting the ribbons out of your hides... while our Big cruisers keep pounding the hell out of you!

Keep on coming bug-head.. our guns are awaiting and HUNGRY!

I just got a brilliant idea:



Rapid Fire Kinetic Railgun/Coilgun Fragmentarty Flak?

The purely Human cock-blocking answer to Umiak Missile/Torpedo Spam. Remember: Kinetics don't trigger the shields on the torpedoes.

[ShadowDragon8685]

The issue is that TransHuman Space (the other RPG setting from the same era like Early Traveler) themes would clash with the Traveler themes of Outsider. Traveler is about the journey into the society and politics of civilizations..human or alien. TransHuman Space is about the stories of interactions of technology and science with the society and politics.

Of course! I would have personally also loved if the final epilogue chapter was Alexander holding hands with Fireblade..both smiling at the sunset..ten millennia from now.

I still think that genetic upgrades like what the Culture can do for its organic citizens..aka: Biological Immortality..are more doable in Outsider then uploading into a new and better meat puppet.

Everyone hop onto the Trans-Sapient/Post-Sapient Train! CHOO CHOO! Motherfuckers.

Eh, I never worry about "themes" when I'm writing. I just write.
And frankly, if the enemy has a huge technological head-start, the only really reasonable option is to disengage all the brakes on the technological progress train and put the hammer down, consequences be damned.

So the Umiak have an insane industrial base. Okay, that's a big problem.
Possible solutions include full-bore, no-limits augmentation and transhuman technologies to augment ship crew, marines and industrial workers, and full-bore deployment of artificial general intelligence. You don't need any embodied crew at all when you can crew a ship with the uploaded minds of your finest crews and AGIs raised wholecloth as infolife, using robotic drones to perform maintenance tasks.

Also, I'm not sure there is a proper term for "Transhumanism" when applied to sapient species which were not originally human. "Transorigin" is the umbrella term I like, but I dunno if anybody else uses it.

I did an came to think about missile ordinance. Since those missile use antimatter both as fuel and warhead, did they consider plundering them for fuel to the ships? They did leave ships behind after all.

They almost certainly did, yes. One of the advantages of fullerened antimatter is that, if you absolutely have to, you can carry it around in a paper sack.

To be clear, the missiles they have now are ordnance spares provided by the fleet support tender that arrived with Fragile Storm's fleet, not the ones they had remaining when they got the fuck out of Dodge.

I just got a brilliant idea:



Rapid Fire Kinetic Railgun/Coilgun Fragmentarty Flak?

The purely Human cock-blocking answer to Umiak Missile/Torpedo Spam. Remember: Kinetics don't trigger the shields on the torpedoes.

Blocked in my country on copyright grounds.

That having been said, kinetic PD is certainly a viable option, and would probably be the one humans will be employing. It doesn't have nearly as much range as the Loroi laser PDs and won't be as capable of savaging Umiak ships since their inertial dampening systems are effective against kinetic impacts, and any point-defense cannon is going to necessarily fire a lot of little projectiles instead of a big, fuckoff "I don't give a damn about your inertial dampeners" ship-to-ship cannon's projectile, which would be exponentially more destructive against a Umiak ship by the simple expedient of concentrating exponentially more force on a smaller area.

But I'd expect they'd actually be more effective as point-defense than lasers. The Loroi might consider arming at least some dedicated point-defense corvettes with mass driver PD cannons.

[Krulle]

By the way, did anybody actually read that big list o' ships and classes, or did errybody's eyes just gloss over it? Did anybody notice the new classes listed or wonder about them, or does nobody give a damn about that kind of thing and I should stop obsessing over such?

I read it. I wondered. I shrugged, as I do not care much for that. It does not seem to cotnribute to the story, for now. When it comes around inside the story, I'll gladly read it, but... yeah.

I assumed it has to do with the upgrading as done by the Human repair engineers, which made the ships slightly different to each other. Say, one ship got most of the speed improvements, one for the range, one for the skip distances, one for weapon powers, as neither ship had the place to get all upgrades, and not enough modules to go around anyway. To make it fit, the engineers decided for this or that for each single ship.
At least, that was my preliminary assuming. If the story tells me more, I'll revise, but I can simply live with the way it has been presented.
I am also not that much into details like these. I love seeing them, as it tells me that the author has put a lot of thought into his world when details like this are fleshed out, but as that does not contribute to the story in general, my mind tends to skip these details when storing the elements of the story.
Also, while I have a knack for abbreviations, I hate abbreviations used in space, military, and aeronautics. For those I have no feel. I still do not know if a cruiser is bigger than a frigate, or not. But then, both names are used for wide ranges of ships, so there is surely some overlap. And as I do not get my head to hold these details, however important they are to people who served, I tend to skip such details when readin a story. I read the words, but my mind will not remember whether the ship is 200m or 300m long, just because my head read frigate or cruiser.
But I do know that a battleship is larger than either, jsut as a heavy is either even larger (heavy battleship) or better armoured (heavy cruiser). But then, "heavy" can also refer to raw firepower.

Please do NOT explain these details to me, I've read them at least 20 times now on different pages. But I do remember other ridiculous details, like the real fig trees have three sexes, to accomodate the fig wasp they need for pollination.

I did an came to think about missile ordinance. Since those missile use antimatter both as fuel and warhead, did they consider plundering them for fuel to the ships? They did leave ships behind after all.

Very possibly you'll need specialised handling tools to remove the AM from the missiles. Possibly the fleet did not have that available. And if you're in a hurry because you're being followed, you do not have time for such things. It might be better to program them for trapping any Umiak ships trying to investigate those left-behind ships they stumble over.

[Durabys]

The issue is that TransHuman Space (the other RPG setting from the same era like Early Traveler) themes would clash with the Traveler themes of Outsider. Traveler is about the journey into the society and politics of civilizations..human or alien. TransHuman Space is about the stories of interactions of technology and science with the society and politics.

Of course! I would have personally also loved if the final epilogue chapter was Alexander holding hands with Fireblade..both smiling at the sunset..ten millennia from now.

I still think that genetic upgrades like what the Culture can do for its organic citizens..aka: Biological Immortality..are more doable in Outsider then uploading into a new and better meat puppet.

Everyone hop onto the Trans-Sapient/Post-Sapient Train! CHOO CHOO! Motherfuckers.

Eh, I never worry about "themes" when I'm writing. I just write.
And frankly, if the enemy has a huge technological head-start, the only really reasonable option is to disengage all the brakes on the technological progress train and put the hammer down, consequences be damned.

So the Umiak have an insane industrial base. Okay, that's a big problem.
Possible solutions include full-bore, no-limits augmentation and transhuman technologies to augment ship crew, marines and industrial workers, and full-bore deployment of artificial general intelligence. You don't need any embodied crew at all when you can crew a ship with the uploaded minds of your finest crews and AGIs raised wholecloth as infolife, using robotic drones to perform maintenance tasks.

Also, I'm not sure there is a proper term for "Transhumanism" when applied to sapient species which were not originally human. "Transorigin" is the umbrella term I like, but I dunno if anybody else uses it.

I did an came to think about missile ordinance. Since those missile use antimatter both as fuel and warhead, did they consider plundering them for fuel to the ships? They did leave ships behind after all.

They almost certainly did, yes. One of the advantages of fullerened antimatter is that, if you absolutely have to, you can carry it around in a paper sack.

To be clear, the missiles they have now are ordnance spares provided by the fleet support tender that arrived with Fragile Storm's fleet, not the ones they had remaining when they got the fuck out of Dodge.

I just got a brilliant idea:



Rapid Fire Kinetic Railgun/Coilgun Fragmentarty Flak?

The purely Human cock-blocking answer to Umiak Missile/Torpedo Spam. Remember: Kinetics don't trigger the shields on the torpedoes.

Blocked in my country on copyright grounds.

That having been said, kinetic PD is certainly a viable option, and would probably be the one humans will be employing. It doesn't have nearly as much range as the Loroi laser PDs and won't be as capable of savaging Umiak ships since their inertial dampening systems are effective against kinetic impacts, and any point-defense cannon is going to necessarily fire a lot of little projectiles instead of a big, fuckoff "I don't give a damn about your inertial dampeners" ship-to-ship cannon's projectile, which would be exponentially more destructive against a Umiak ship by the simple expedient of concentrating exponentially more force on a smaller area.

But I'd expect they'd actually be more effective as point-defense than lasers. The Loroi might consider arming at least some dedicated point-defense corvettes with mass driver PD cannons.

Trans-Sapient is as good as anything.

About that video:
https://vimeo.com/10224994

It would be fun if the Loroi went back to kinetic's after such long time.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Trans-Sapient is as good as anything.

About that video:
https://vimeo.com/10224994

How adorable.
Flak is only useful if the enemy are going to be clustered up at ranges such that they could theoretically shoot one another with small arms. I mean, hey, if the enemy feels like participating in the creation of your dream engagement by doing something stupid like flying starfighters at WWII prop plane ranges, and compounding that by flying in a straight stream from their carrier towards your ship instead of ballooning out, you might as well...

The Umiak strike me as being too practical to participate in the creation of anybody's dream engagement.

It would be fun if the Loroi went back to kinetic's after such long time.

They do use some - Warhead Launchers are basically giant railguns, used to give torpedoes a kick into battle and to give KKVs you're aiming towards a planet you don't want the enemy to have an extra kick when you're done accelerating your ship towards it.

[Durabys]

Trans-Sapient is as good as anything.

About that video:
https://vimeo.com/10224994

How adorable.
Flak is only useful if the enemy are going to be clustered up at ranges such that they could theoretically shoot one another with small arms. I mean, hey, if the enemy feels like participating in the creation of your dream engagement by doing something stupid like flying starfighters at WWII prop plane ranges, and compounding that by flying in a straight stream from their carrier towards your ship instead of ballooning out, you might as well...

The Umiak strike me as being too practical to participate in the creation of anybody's dream engagement.

It would be fun if the Loroi went back to kinetic's after such long time.

They do use some - Warhead Launchers are basically giant railguns, used to give torpedoes a kick into battle and to give KKVs you're aiming towards a planet you don't want the enemy to have an extra kick when you're done accelerating your ship towards it.

I wasn't talking about using kinetics against warships! I was talking about using them to destroy the Macross Swarms of missiles and torpedoes! Aka: Targets with not as much a guiding intellect or armor as a Umiak warship. And the closer these missiles are to your ship..the greater effect will the flak have on them.