Page 101: And I will take VERY good care of you!

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crumjd
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Re: Page 101: And I will take VERY good care of you!

Post by crumjd »

Our new friend crumjd has said that he believes that Tempo was getting so close to Alex as part of an attempt to probe his mind; I believe that she was doing so with more than telepathy.
Hello there, long time listener first time caller! ;)

I don't really think she was trying to learn anything with what she was doing psychically. I thought it was more along the lines of cocking her head to the side and squinting at something she couldn't see. If we could read her mind she'd be thinking, "That's so strange, it's like you're not there at all!" I think Alex must be very unsettling for the Lori, which is why I like this so much:
He reads as a blank to all Loroi. That's gotta be disconcerting from their point of view. Even if they've squared it away intellectually, it's going to take time to do that instinctively. He's there, but their senses, the ones they use to spot people, insist that there's nothing. She's coming up ever so close to 'see' him better, to see if there's even a hint of him on her Psidar.

Its somewhat like if someone were 99.99% transparent. You can tell someone's there, you can certainly infer their existence, but you'd be hard pressed not to come up close and peer to catch the barest glimpse of what they look like. This I think partly explains Beryl's behaviour.
I went to a wax museum once; the figures there aren't really enough like humans to fool anyone so if you want to look at them the impulse is to lean right in and get as close as you would with a painting or some such. But then I'd turn, get distracted, and the corner of my eye would inform me that I was only 3 inches from someone I hadn't noticed before. It was enough to make me jump several times.

The Loroi might have the exact opposite problem with Alex. When they're paying attention to him they realize he's a self motivated sophant and so they don't get any closer to him then there culture allows. When they quit paying attention he becomes the mental equivalent of a robot or a spacesuit and they don't care what his proximity is to them.

That and everyone has to fit in the picture. :D
The rest of the explanation lies in that Beryl wants to jump Alex's bones. At least once. Preferably more than once.
Yeah, that to probably. Heh

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Muttley
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Re: Page 101: And I will take VERY good care of you!

Post by Muttley »

fredgiblet wrote:
I've actually said this before. Beryl has 5 points of Xenophilia (it doesn't mean what you think it means (unless it does)), which means she is interested in non-Loroi to the point where it can be detrimental to her, whether that means getting yelled at for talking to Alex about baseball instead of monitoring her displays, or finding out which bacteria in the human mouth are effective on Loroi. Even if she wasn't ordered to be there she probably would be, and if she was excluded she would probably go out of her way to get on the shuttle. Add to that the fact that Beryl also has the Charitable disad and Alex has been treated most uncharitably recently and I think she'd blow a gasket if she wasn't allowed to show up and be friendly (she also has Bad Temper).
Mr moderator fredgiblet sir, you clearly have sources of information that I have not been able to find. Stats pages for the Outsider characters in some kind of game. Are they canon, and where are they located?
fredgiblet wrote:As far as the good cop/bad cop I'm honestly not even sure that's intentional. It can just as easily be both of them simply being themselves. Of course I can see Tempo looking at their personalities and assigning them specifically because of the natural good cop/bad cop dynamic as well.
They're telepathic and can be holding whole briefing sessions while walking along with Alex. This is a war situation: once they know Alex can't overhear their sanzai they are bound to use it to coordinate themselves around him.

Alex has been told of the Listel's accurate memory, so he's been given a clue that she's there to gather information, and be on his guard.

Beryl has been forward in all her interactions with Alex. She may or may not be enjoying it, but I'm sure she's been ordered to find out everything she can.

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Re: Page 101: And I will take VERY good care of you!

Post by fredgiblet »

Muttley wrote:Mr moderator fredgiblet sir, you clearly have sources of information that I have not been able to find. Stats pages for the Outsider characters in some kind of game. Are they canon, and where are they located?
Not on my work computer. There's GURPS pages in the wild for Tempo, Fireblade and Beryl. Fireblade is in the Insider, the others aren't. I'll post the link when I get home if no one beats me to it. It's pseudo-canon, made by Arioch and probably mostly accurate, but it was last updated years ago and at least one point has been contradicted but it should still be usable.
once they know Alex can't overhear their sanzai
So he says, but they don't actually KNOW.
Alex has been told of the Listel's accurate memory, so he's been given a clue that she's there to gather information, and be on his guard.
Listel or not that should be his default assumption for any Loroi he meets.

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Re: Page 101: And I will take VERY good care of you!

Post by Arioch »

NOMAD wrote: but does this mean the highland VIP transport has a longer range ( IE interplanetary), if the 51st is at the outer planets ?
The shuttle has relatively long in-system range, but has no FTL or interstellar capability. SG51 is currently in a system just a few jumps from Azimol, whereas Seren is quite some distance away. The plan is for the shuttle to transfer Alex and his associates to one of the escort vessels of the supply column, which will then take them to Seren.

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Re: Page 101: And I will take VERY good care of you!

Post by fredgiblet »

Interesting. I didn't expect Alex to be away from the Tempest for very long. I guess I was wrong.

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Re: Page 101: And I will take VERY good care of you!

Post by Karst45 »

Muttley wrote:First post here: I don't know if this idea has been posted before. I can't find anything that looks like it on a brief search.

I think that Beryl is pursuing her own agenda, to befriend Alex with the aim of extracting information. I think she's been ordered to do this but she may have decided to do it on her own: certainly she's not all that she appears on the surface. She's doing good cop/bad cop with Fireblade too.

Hence the temptation being put in front of Alex here - Beryl's sizing him up to see how distractable he is.
I like were your going here. But i think Fireblade not doing the "bad cop" role. She just like to rought up people from time to time.


Other important question... Is the purple uniform beryl holding in her arm a spare, or is it intended for alex? *shudder* eww!
sunphoenix wrote:Alex was kept in isolation for his own good and for security and for future diplomatic necessities. I would not put it beyond the pale for the demonstrably aggressive, and assertive Loroi females to not consider taking a few 'unsanctioned' liberties with the attractive male in their presence.
If that true, why didn't the guard "fell a cope"? If i was the only guard of the alien elf-chick... i would probably try to be friendly... maybe more considering the "several week" he spend in isolation.
Last edited by Karst45 on Sat Aug 04, 2012 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

Solemn
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Re: Page 101: And I will take VERY good care of you!

Post by Solemn »

Mr Bojangles wrote:Emotional reunion, jump-induced nightmare, what's the difference, right? ;)
No different. Only different in your mind.
--Yoda
dfacto wrote:Or because the unaccounted for crew-members are also onboard and they want them to think they're alone to see if they're lying Umiak constructs.
Fotiadis_110 wrote: No, in fact the reason Alex has been so isolated is probably due to his unknown element, is he an ambassador of a future ally, with whom they can share information, or is he a member of a future enemy who will need to be destroyed lest valuable information reach their foes ears? And of course finally: The prison cells MIGHT just be escape pods themselves, able to be jettisoned in a crisis to prevent problems, and to transfer prisoners between ships without offering an opportunity to escape?
And let us not forget that the Loroi were in potentially hostile terrain, they would not want to place him in any further risk than they need do, so keeping him contained in the heaviest guarded, and best protected portion of the ship, the prison is probably not a unreasonable idea.
sunphoenix wrote:Image
While such explanations apply handily to Alex's confinement, the lack of communication he spoke of does not fit such a model.

Alex's surprise at the mention of the Listel caste's accurate memory would tend to indicate that this is not a trait he shares; therefore I believe the Loroi would be wise to think any information he has to be a perishable commodity, and one to be extracted as soon as possible. Thus I would expect, under such circumstances, that he would be confined to his cell, but also visited daily by either Tempo or another information-gatherer. This is something that I think Stillstorm would agree to, not least of all because it can be a method of confrontation. If the Loroi were not willing to make any assumptions at all regarding their ability to understand and manipulate human emotions and psychology, then I would expect them to work as quickly as possible to get as many statements as possible out of him, and worry about evaluating them later.

It might be imprudent to regard human psychology and Loroi psychology as analogous, but it would also be imprudent to regard human psychology and canine psychology as analogous. Humans and Loroi do not share similar emergent social structures, nor do humans and canines. Humans and Loroi do not share qualia of sensation, since humans lack telepathy; neither do humans and canines, since canines lack color vision and humans lack olfactory refinement. But trained individuals are able to understand dogs well enough to produce reproducible desirable reactions out of them; not just training, but resocializing some maltreated individuals to conform to domestic standards. Just because a psychology is alien does not mean it is not rationally or even intuitively comprehensible, and comprehending alien minds is, I believe, part of Tempo's job description. As I said earlier, I believe that when she was speaking with him on the bridge she was sounding him out, and has likely learned a number of things. She has, for instance, undoubtably learned how he reacts to the loss of his crewmates. How he responds to overt aggression. How he reacts to accusation, to implication, to the loss of his old social ground, etc. I think she saw that he was inclined towards trusting Beryl as tentative means of of securing new social grounding (and that Beryl was enthusiastic at the prospect), and I believe she chose to intensify the reaction. This thought process could occur regardless of whether or not Loroi would react to such circumstances in a remotely similar manner, as it is based on conscious understanding rather than any heartfelt sentiment on the part of the manipulator.

I think it is worth pointing out again that the Loroi have had centuries of very significant contact with a number of different sophont alien species, and likely have much greater understanding of what sorts of psyches would be universal to all highly social but noneusocial rational sophonts than humanity does. I am not attempting to make statements regarding Loroi emotions here; whether or not Loroi feel or react in certain ways, they are surely still as capable of understanding a human psyche as humans are of understanding those of dogs, and, having as much experience with other alien minds as they have had, I believe that Tempo trying to understand Alex would be more like a wild animal expert with no experience dealing with dogs but some level of experience with wolves who is trying to understand a dog than it would be akin to a cynophobe with no experience in animal handling attempting to do so. Natural empathy is not necessary for the variety and level of understanding I am attributing to her.
crumjd wrote: I don't really think she was trying to learn anything with what she was doing psychically.
Ah. My apologies; I thought that was what you meant when you said that you took her intrusion into his space as a matter of "practical necessity."
Muttley wrote:Stats pages for the Outsider characters in some kind of game. Are they canon, and where are they located?
They were once located in the temp folder. However, after looking there, I have been unable to find Beryl's character sheet, and Fireblade's was moved to the Insider.

Here's Tempo.

I am sure they are as canon as you would expect a generic RPG interpretation of character concepts Arioch might have made way back in the day as part of his planning process and then might have subsequently changed his mind about or abandoned or deviated from or whatever to be. Broad strokes.

Though, Fireblade's sheet was promoted to a place in the Insider, so it's almost definitely a bit more accurate than the others.

Speaking of broad strokes and outdated information, you might also be interested in Arioch's Combat Sim .pdf, which is also in the temp folder.

CaptainChaos
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Re: Page 101: And I will take VERY good care of you!

Post by CaptainChaos »

did anyone else get the impression that Berly's next line was going to be "And I certainly won't let you starve to death like the last one". :o

Seriously though, according to the insider the Loroi treat males a bit like dependant children who need to be protected and cared for. Which is what i think is happening here with Beryl promising to take good care of Alex. More importantly though it looks like Alex (and us!) are going to get a bunch of Q&A!

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Re: Page 101: And I will take VERY good care of you!

Post by Karst45 »

CaptainChaos wrote:did anyone else get the impression that Berly's next line was going to be "And I certainly won't let you starve to death like the last one". :o
or: And now i know your species is not impervious to fire.

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ed_montague
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Re: Page 101: And I will take VERY good care of you!

Post by ed_montague »

Solemn wrote:Alex's surprise at the mention of the Listel caste's accurate memory would tend to indicate that this is not a trait he shares; therefore I believe the Loroi would be wise to think any information he has to be a perishable commodity, and one to be extracted as soon as possible. Thus I would expect, under such circumstances, that he would be confined to his cell, but also visited daily by either Tempo or another information-gatherer.
Then again, whatever information that managed to survive the trauma they've put him through is probably going to survive for another week. I assumed that the Loroi officers had finally realized that humans are fragile and were going "shit shit shit we need to make sure he's relatively safe until we figure out what to do with him."
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Re: Page 101: And I will take VERY good care of you!

Post by sunphoenix »

Karst45 wrote:
sunphoenix wrote:Alex was kept in isolation for his own good and for security and for future diplomatic necessities. I would not put it beyond the pale for the demonstrably aggressive, and assertive Loroi females to not consider taking a few 'unsanctioned' liberties with the attractive male in their presence.
If that true, why didn't the guard "fell a cope"? If i was the only guard of the alien elf-chick... i would probably try to be friendly... maybe more considering the "several week" he spend in isolation.
Answer - Stillstorm's orders and professionalism. She at least does not trust the 'likely Umiak plant', but she certainly does not want some biological agent introduced to her crew or the Loroi populous in general. The best she can do with the annoying fact that Tempo has declared the "entity" a 'diplomat' and the fact that their previous examinations have not revealed any agent or virus that their current science can identify as hostile is isolate him and make sure he is well-guarded.

On a modern U.S. Navy ship if similar situation such as an exotic and demonstrably lovely young woman were on board... the captain would likely post his most reliable and dependable guards to make sure the passenger was not unduly harassed or molested. You don't put a soldier to guard the Admiral's daughter who has a reputation for being a horny-dog around women!

Same principle holds here... possibly.
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Re: Page 101: And I will take VERY good care of you!

Post by NOMAD »

Answer - Stillstorm's orders and professionalism. She at least does not trust the 'likely Umiak plant', but she certainly does not want some biological agent introduced to her crew or the Loroi populous in general. The best she can do with the annoying fact that Tempo has declared the "entity" a 'diplomat' and the fact that their previous examinations have not revealed any agent or virus that their current science can identify as hostile is isolate him and make sure he is well-guarded.

On a modern U.S. Navy ship if similar situation such as an exotic and demonstrably lovely young woman were on board... the captain would likely post his most reliable and dependable guards to make sure the passenger was not unduly harassed or molested. You don't put a soldier to guard the Admiral's daughter who has a reputation for being a horny-dog around women!

Same principle holds here... possibly.
That whole still storm angle of keeping a cautious make to most sense to me, but i would also see the "loroi-male needs protecting" angle as well, given that most of the younger loroi crew has probably had its drilled into them and/or culturally to protect the rare males.


as well, Alex isolation was also an attempt to keep all the rumours of a Loroi like race down within the fleet ( from 51st SG angle), but it could also means still-storm is not sold on Alex being human and still being a Umiak plant ( especially after kitiki-27 boost of finally ending the war)

I just hoep everything is ok at Seran ( Will fireblade being anxious i wonder ?)

@ Arioch, thx for answering the question, can't wait to see what ship Alex ends up on
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Re: Page 101: And I will take VERY good care of you!

Post by fredgiblet »

Muttley wrote:Mr moderator fredgiblet sir, you clearly have sources of information that I have not been able to find. Stats pages for the Outsider characters in some kind of game. Are they canon, and where are they located?
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Re: Page 101: And I will take VERY good care of you!

Post by DevilDalek »

NOMAD wrote: That whole still storm angle of keeping a cautious make to most sense to me, but i would also see the "loroi-male needs protecting" angle as well, given that most of the younger loroi crew has probably had its drilled into them and/or culturally to protect the rare males.
Thats going to be interesting when the Human male 'protect the females' instinct comes to the fore!

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Re: Page 101: And I will take VERY good care of you!

Post by Michael »

Yay new page! as awesome as ever Arioch, will wait with abated breath for next page :D
bunnyboy wrote:
ed_montague wrote:I have read at least one "moustache fanfic" posted on /tg/ involving...well, it didn't quite involve Beryl's basement dungeon of love--the main Loroi character in that one was Fireblade...

It was simultaneously arousing and terrifying. May God have mercy on my soul.
It was best fanfic ever!
Not sure....if want to find :|
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Re: Page 101: And I will take VERY good care of you!

Post by NOMAD »

DevilDalek wrote:
NOMAD wrote: That whole still storm angle of keeping a cautious make to most sense to me, but i would also see the "loroi-male needs protecting" angle as well, given that most of the younger loroi crew has probably had its drilled into them and/or culturally to protect the rare males.
Thats going to be interesting when the Human male 'protect the females' instinct comes to the fore!

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i do wonder what would happen if a human and a loroi share a fox hole, during a mortar barrage ?

you get out,
no, allow me to leave
dammit, you need to go
please, you first

guess which one is the loroi ?
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Re: Page 101: And I will take VERY good care of you!

Post by fredgiblet »

NOMAD wrote:guess which one is the loroi ?
Both of them.

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Re: Page 101: And I will take VERY good care of you!

Post by NOMAD »

:lol: and facepalm
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junk
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Re: Page 101: And I will take VERY good care of you!

Post by junk »

Okay that was a lot of advances on beryl's part.

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Re: Page 101: And I will take VERY good care of you!

Post by NOMAD »

well, she is VERY interested in Alex, and it can be written that she could go to third base, ah fanfic, selectively avoiding realty and installing plot holes for fun's sake.

but, on the serious note, I have read some very good fanfic in a few different universes, but the fun one can still be enjoyable :D

( author note: if I missed the whole meaning of below, please tell me, my mind is numb from all the mech piloting)
junk wrote:Okay that was a lot of advances on beryl's part.
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