Page 117: I will demonstrate!

[Galactic Scholar]

Let's try to imagine a scene of a foreign diplomat walking into the US State Department in Washington.

State Department Official: Can I help you?
Diplomat: Yes, I'm here to establish diplomatic relations on behalf of my country, Zooland.
State Department Official: Zooland? We have no listing for that nation. Where is it located?
Diplomat: I'm afraid I can't tell you that.
State Department Official: Sorry? What?
Diplomat: We don't trust you yet, so I'm afraid I can't tell you where our country is located.
State Department Official: ...How are we supposed to establish formal diplomatic relations if you won't even tell us where your country is located?
Diplomat: Here is the location of a van waiting on the edge of town. If you go there, they will blindfold you and take you to our country. Then you can speak to our leadership.
State Department Official: I'm going to stop talking to you now.

There is nothing useful that the tribal elder can negotiate -- trade agreements, non-aggression pacts,
territorial agreements, alliances, requests for aid of any kind, or even just a request to be left alone
-- without revealing the location of his nation.
If he wanted his nation to remain anonymous, he should have stayed home.

If the Ambasador from Zooland had been tortured by the United States, held in solitary for a few days, and everything else Alex has gone through... and then immediately asked "Where can we find the rest of your people?" I dunno if he should. If I were Alex I would be looking the least painful ways to commit suicide by now so that my knowledge couldn't be used to harm humanity.

Then again, that would make for a fairly boring story, that Alex is certainly made of pretty stern stuff! Go Alex!

[Krulle]

The prospect of public backlash didn't deter the Loroi the first time, nor the second time. So why would one think that the third time would be any different?

There was a public backlash. Read the last three sentences:

Race: Mannadi
Affiliation: Subjugated Population (Quarantined)

Notes: In their day, the Mannadi were bold explorers and adventurers who had built a small interstellar sphere of influence. The Mannadi respected and feared the growing power of the Loroi Empire enough not to attack them directly, and even prompted a brief alliance between the two powers. Unfortunately, the Mannadi could never be content as ordinary members of the family of nations, and their ambition led them into continuing acts of aggression against the Neridi and Pipolsid that eventually drew them into direct conflict with the Loroi. Though never a true match for the Loroi Empire and her allies, the Mannadi nation fought tenaciously and effectively through a series of three bloody and bitter wars with the Loroi, in which the Mannadi made effective use of the remote location of their territory and the severe handicap placed on Loroi forces operating so far from friendly resupply. The Mannadi also had a degree of resistance to Loroi telepathy, which represented a further challenge to the Loroi. By the end of the third war the Loroi eventually occupied the Mannadi worlds, but there was little left of Mannadi infrastructure, and almost nothing left of Loroi patience. Mannadi telepathic resistance made Loroi occupation less effective than they were accustomed to, and when Mannadi insurgents bitterly fought the occupation, the Loroi started simply wiping them out. International outrage at these actions threatened to shatter the Loroi Alliance; only the formation of the Loroi Union ended the threat of a galaxy-wide war and spared the Mannadi from extinction. The Mannadi are not spoken of in Loroi society, and they are rarely seen outside their designated territory, which is quarantined. Mannadi space is the main gateway to the territory of the Historians, but few travel this path.

So, the Mannadi have not been "wiped out", yet. A cultural genocide has happened, yes, but the Mannadi are still alive, and, if they behave, are free to live their lives as subjects of the Loroi military. Thanks to outside pressure on Loroi politicians. (see below)

Add to that, the Mannadi were wiped out just because of their natural resistence - that was enough to doom them as a species, and they were even better established on the galactic scene. So who would raise a stink about a species only few people would have ever heard about?

Yes, they were. But they were also standing up again and again and trying to hit the Loroi military. How would you react if you won, clearly and unambiguously, but can't leave the fight arena as the moment you turn your back, you get attacked? You will use the weapons still at hand. Again and again. And in the hope to get some rest, you enforce stricter and stricter policies.

Just think of this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter_arm ... lent_leges - and if it's a war for the very survival, this would come even more true.

I fully agree with this statement, despite not liking it.

[Mannadi elements of the Loroi timeline in the spoiler]

SpoilerShow

Dates given in Earth years CE ("Common Era"), which uses the same numbering system as AD ("Anno Domini")

1199-1250: Second Colonization period. Contact with Delrias, Neridi, Mannadi.
1251-1295: War with Delrias; Loroi conquer Delrias territory. Loroi ally with Neridi, Mannadi, Pipolsid. Distant contact with Nissek and Arekka via Mannadi connections.
1295-1325: Mannadi-Nissek War (also “Quiet War”). Loroi join in 1302, but see no combat.
1311: Maia colonized. Contact with Barsam. First meeting of the Interspecies Convention.
1323-1402: Splinter war. [Ends with Loroi First Emperor]
1415: Mannadi aggression against Neridi and Pipolsid. [remember, the Loroi are allied with all three parties]
1427-1441: First Mannadi War. Little is resolved because of spacetime instability.
1495-1507: Second Mannadi War. Loroi annex substantial territory; Mannadi sue for peace.
1548-1552: Third Mannadi War. Started by Loroi; Arekka join Mannadi side in 1550, but Loroi conquer Mannadi territory in 1552, and organized Mannadi resistance ends. The Arekka fight on alone, attempting to support Mannadi insurgents.
1552-1557: Mannadi Occupation: the Mannadi surrender unconditionally to the Loroi in 1552, but local insurgents continue to fight bitterly against increasingly restrictive occupation policies by the Loroi. Arekka systems are also falling under Loroi occupation.
1555: Enok incident: a major terrorist attack on Loroi orbiting facilities in occupied Mannadi territory is answered with reprisal strikes against Mannadi civilian populations by the Loroi military. The Interspecies Convention calls for war crimes trials, but Emperor Loremark threatens war against any nation that attempts to interfere with Loroi sovereignty.
1557: Interspecies Convention petitions for formation of Loroi Union; Loremark agrees. Neridi, Pipolsid, Barsam join as full members. Nissek decline to join, and Arekka also decline but tacitly agree to end hostilities with the Loroi.
2135: Ukko incident [the Loroi/Umiak war begins]
2160: Bellarmine Incident: Contact with Humanity.

From what I read here, the Mannadi definitely did their best to make sure the Loroi patience would be tested to the limits. Over the timespan of about 250 Human years, the Mannadi again and again aggressively confronted and provoked the Loroi and their allies.
And then they aggressively bombed installations of the oppressors. Sometimes you have to accept that someone else is stronger, and that continueing guerilla tactics can get your whole "mountains" slacked without the enemy breaking a sweat, and that in such cases it might be better to stop fighting, and choose different tactics.
They can be thankful to be still alive as a species, IMHO. (I am against genocide, but if you cannot turn your back on a foe, despite having made very clear that you are MUCH stronger and that he lost,... sorry, I have better things to do than to turn around again and again and smack their faces again and again. At some point a permanent solution will have to be chosen - and in the case of the Mannadi this will mean, at minimum, a total set-back in technological terms to a pre-space flight era.)

But also that the Interspecies Convention did call the Loroi to temper down.
But also that the Interspecies Convention is already concerned with the behaviour of the Loroi, and that an uncalled and unprovoked treatment of Humanity along the lines of the Mannadi would have more severe consequences. But then, now the Loroi are at war with the Umiak, and the view of the Interspecies Convention/Loroi Union might be different, but alo the Loroi can't afford to upset their allies in this situation of elimination of Loroi or victory.
In the end, it was the Interspecies Convention that sparked the Loroi Union. The Interspecies Convention may not exist anymore (having dissolved into the Loroi Union - in the timeline there is no mention of the IC since the creation of the LU 600 (Earth) years ago), but in the Union the member races have some say, and they could leave, thus weaken the Loroi Union decissively.

[Imbrooge]

Heck, I would be surprised if Humanity isn't equipping and sending out as many colony ships as possible on secret deep colonization missions as insurance against 'glassing' too.

I'd hate to burst your bubble, but the amount of time until Umiak encroachment on their territory begins only a few years and Arioch is generally keeping things on the lower scale of Sci-fi hardness, so the logistics of actually doing that is impossible within the given timeframe humanity has to prepare. By the time they've chosen a side, humanity's tech is so low in the story that the air superiority of the occupying Military fleet policing their space from either side is suficient to nip any attempts in the bud. The orgus refugees weren't even on any important planets when they escaped, they were well away from anywhere and is the only reason they could escape.

[Arent]

You guys do realize that Tempo probably made sure Alex was seen & acknowledged by the Barsam & Historians *exactly* because she wanted them to know & prevent any "accidents" or "cover ups"?

[Imbrooge]

You guys do realize that Tempo probably made sure Alex was seen & acknowledged by the Barsam & Historians *exactly* because she wanted them to know & prevent any "accidents" or "cover ups"?

Of course, all things considered it was primarily to stop Stillstorm who is a little fish in that pond politically. The real hurdle is the leadership of the Loroi, I hope the "artefacts" they recovered includes National Geographic documentaries giving the location of the Earth is a given but there needs to be evidence it's not merely a forward operating base.

[icekatze]

hi hi

Set that conversation in the Age of Exploration between an indigenous elder and a European ship's captain, and it isn't as odd. Especially if, somehow, it is the indigenous elder who has showed up on the European coast.

I did some looking, and while it might not have been the Age of Exploration, in the viking age there are apparently some examples of treaties signed in Constantinople between the Byzantine Empire and viking merchants who literally had no nation to divulge the location of. All that mattered was that they had ships that could reach port, and goods to trade. Apparently, the leaders in Constantinople were occasionally frustrated at needing to make multiple treaties, because without a central nation, each group of viking merchants acted independently.

[JQBogus]

Heck, I would be surprised if Humanity isn't equipping and sending out as many colony ships as possible on secret deep colonization missions as insurance against 'glassing' too.

I'd hate to burst your bubble, but the amount of time until Umiak encroachment on their territory begins only a few years and Arioch is generally keeping things on the lower scale of Sci-fi hardness, so the logistics of actually doing that is impossible within the given timeframe humanity has to prepare. By the time they've chosen a side, humanity's tech is so low in the story that the air superiority of the occupying Military fleet policing their space from either side is suficient to nip any attempts in the bud. The orgus refugees weren't even on any important planets when they escaped, they were well away from anywhere and is the only reason they could escape.

Yeah, it may be that "Zero" is the greatest number possible in the available time-frame. Then again, the colony mission doesn't necessarily have to be well equipped or to have high odds of succeeding to be worth sending in this situation. A large bulk carrier with a few hundred women, a several thousand frozen embryos, and as much of the stuff that the best minds on Earth figure is useful to a 'lost' (no more support from home world) colony.

It doesn't even have to be a colony mission... it could just be a "refugee" ship sitting in a dead system waiting for a "Go" signal (or a the lack of a "Don't Go" signal) to start jumping back up the Orgus trail to the Umiak. In this case, remove the colonizing gear, and add more embryos and a larger "incubator" crew. Or is extinction better than revenge and being under the Umiak thumb-segment? If it is the Umiak who glass us (even though they don't have the reputation for that) it would be harder, since that refugee ship wouldn't have a pre-laid out path to the Loroi.

[novius]

You guys do realize that Tempo probably made sure Alex was seen & acknowledged by the Barsam & Historians *exactly* because she wanted them to know & prevent any "accidents" or "cover ups"?

On the other hand she did cut him off before too much had been said. But I think it was more on Alex's behalf, because she didn't want the Barsam ambassador to spill the beans about the full implications of the humans arriving on the scene.

[Imbrooge]

Yeah, it may be that "Zero" is the greatest number possible in the available time-frame. Then again, the colony mission doesn't necessarily have to be well equipped or to have high odds of succeeding to be worth sending in this situation. A large bulk carrier with a few hundred women, a several thousand frozen embryos, and as much of the stuff that the best minds on Earth figure is useful to a 'lost' (no more support from home world) colony.

It doesn't even have to be a colony mission... it could just be a "refugee" ship sitting in a dead system waiting for a "Go" signal (or a the lack of a "Don't Go" signal) to start jumping back up the Orgus trail to the Umiak. In this case, remove the colonizing gear, and add more embryos and a larger "incubator" crew. Or is extinction better than revenge and being under the Umiak thumb-segment? If it is the Umiak who glass us (even though they don't have the reputation for that) it would be harder, since that refugee ship wouldn't have a pre-laid out path to the Loroi.

The war between the Umiak and loroi is a Total War with extinction to the losers, and the Umiak will simply kill the human vessel and scavenge the remains if it's already known Humans sided with the Loroi. By doing that Humanity's fate is sealed because not only does Humanity not have many planets to support colonies to pull off what the orgus did, you're basically inviting the Umiak to pilfer the knowledge from a glorified coffin and at the same time snubbing your potential allies directly in the face so what might've been a theoretical outcome becomes a garrunteed outcome the very act of sending that vessel to the Umiak is the exact moment Humanity declares allegience to the Umiak. What you propose only works if you don't side with the Umiak's enemy in which case you might as well just become official members of the Umiak to begin with.
Besides Humanity doesn't have time to actually build anything they aren't already in the middle of building before contact, you're basically saying to take away precious units from the small tiny military they have and hope the Umiak don't shoot them and the Loroi get lazy when sweeping human territory.

And only women? You need both for sustainable population.

[JQBogus]

Yeah, it may be that "Zero" is the greatest number possible in the available time-frame. Then again, the colony mission doesn't necessarily have to be well equipped or to have high odds of succeeding to be worth sending in this situation. A large bulk carrier with a few hundred women, a several thousand frozen embryos, and as much of the stuff that the best minds on Earth figure is useful to a 'lost' (no more support from home world) colony.

It doesn't even have to be a colony mission... it could just be a "refugee" ship sitting in a dead system waiting for a "Go" signal (or a the lack of a "Don't Go" signal) to start jumping back up the Orgus trail to the Umiak. In this case, remove the colonizing gear, and add more embryos and a larger "incubator" crew. Or is extinction better than revenge and being under the Umiak thumb-segment? If it is the Umiak who glass us (even though they don't have the reputation for that) it would be harder, since that refugee ship wouldn't have a pre-laid out path to the Loroi.

The war between the Umiak and loroi is a Total War with extinction to the losers, and the Umiak will simply kill the human vessel and scavenge the remains if it's already known Humans sided with the Loroi. By doing that Humanity's fate is sealed because not only does Humanity not have many planets to support colonies to pull off what the orgus did, you're basically inviting the Umiak to pilfer the knowledge from a glorified coffin and at the same time snubbing your potential allies directly in the face so what might've been a theoretical outcome becomes a garrunteed outcome the very act of sending that vessel to the Umiak is the exact moment Humanity declares allegience to the Umiak. What you propose only works if you don't side with the Umiak's enemy in which case you might as well just become official members of the Umiak to begin with.
Besides Humanity doesn't have time to actually build anything they aren't already in the middle of building before contact, you're basically saying to take away precious units from the small tiny military they have and hope the Umiak don't shoot them and the Loroi get lazy when sweeping human territory.

And only women? You need both for sustainable population.

Running back up the Orgus retreat line is what they do if the LOROI glass all the Terran worlds, meaning humans aren't allies of the Loroi and the Loroi are not 'potential allies' anymore. Its not like the Umiak are going to go "hm... look... the Loroi just committed genocide against those people... that MUST mean they were ALLIED with them! Kill the refugee ship!!!" As to taking away a precious ship... so what? the ships humanity has or can build before contact are going to be so far behind technologically, that they won't be at all useful in trying to fight off an invasion anyway.

As to all women... the sustainable population in the stored embryos/gametes, not in the live crew. The initial all woman crew is just a way to get a maximum number of wombs for gestation. Heck, send just ~2.8 million female embryos and a large sperm bank and do the following :

(Assuming with modern medicine and a lot of determination that each woman can gestate 30 embryos in her lifetime)
Generation 1 : 100 women : all implanted embryos are female
Generation 2 : 3,000 women : all implanted embryos are female
Generation 3 : 90,000 women : All implanted embryos are female
Generation 4 : 2,700,000 women : open up the sperm bank, use artificial insemination instead of implanting embryos
Generation 5 : 40,500,000 women, 40,500,000 men : Breeding reverts to "traditional"

[Imbrooge]

(Assuming with modern medicine and a lot of determination that each woman can gestate 30 embryos in her lifetime)
Generation 1 : 100 women : all implanted embryos are female
Generation 2 : 3,000 women : all implanted embryos are female
Generation 3 : 90,000 women : All implanted embryos are female
Generation 4 : 2,700,000 women : open up the sperm bank, use artificial insemination instead of implanting embryos
Generation 5 : 40,500,000 women, 40,500,000 men : Breeding reverts to "traditional"

Once a woman hits her 30s the chance of birth defects increases exponentially every year. You are otherwise taking a huge gamble on an artificial means of reproducing that could fail at any moment anb such a method is not considered to be good for a species wide issues since cloning is only good for individuals instead of just stuffing an actual sustainable population without requiring technology to maintain embryos that could die before the journey is even halfway finished. Regardless such a setup would require more then the time the comic takes place allows, the Scout corps took 6 months to setup and they already have the majority of the deep space ships capable of traveling that far with infrastructure to maintain and prolong such a mission.

Running back up the Orgus retreat line is what they do if the LOROI glass all the Terran worlds, meaning humans aren't allies of the Loroi and the Loroi are not 'potential allies' anymore. Its not like the Umiak are going to go "hm... look... the Loroi just committed genocide against those people... that MUST mean they were ALLIED with them! Kill the refugee ship!!!"

That belies the Umiak mindset which has been detailed in the insider and just how paranoid the Umiak and loroi really are. The Umiak will either shoot them then capture them for horrific experiments and assume them hostile since even the Historian construct mistook Alex for a Loroi before being corrected, or once they realize what happened prop them up for propoganda then send them off as disposable slave labor and to die on their own (Umiak not human) disposable ships. The only race they concern to preserve is themselves, and themselves only. You're also assuming the Loroi are actually going to just decide to genocide and that decision to be knownby publically announcing it if they did start glassing then that means they're already there and everyone is already hosed including your backup plan.

And the Scout Corps used those same retreat lines to get to where they are for first contact,

As to taking away a precious ship... so what? the ships humanity has or can build before contact are going to be so far behind technologically, that they won't be at all useful in trying to fight off an invasion anyway.

Again read the Umiak in the insider they do not have innovation and imagination as a strong point, they basically rely on cannibalizing other Alien tech for their development. Pretty much anything humans have that other aliens don't is worth looking at, the embryos however are disposable by giving them the ship they can safely right off humans and then just off them no problem. You also need to at least try to have a pretext of strength when negotiating, not doing that ends badly for those who don't all around.

[novius]

Mind you, if it comes to that, humans would have nothing to lose anymore. Stuffing a run-down, obsolete freighter with the needs to build at least a stable outpost, if not a full colony and repopulate would still be better than doing nothing at all. In a more extreme case, they could hide themselves in cryosleep in a hollowed out asteroid in order for the war to blow over and the dust to be settled before starting to look for a planet to touch down on.

Second, the colony ship might not even need to follow the Orgus route - as long as the possibility exists, they might want to go the other way, away from the front lines. But that would be even a bigger gamble... but again. There'd be nothing to lose anymore, only to win.

Then again, imagine the Loroi putting humans on the brink of extinction. On purpose. Loroi would be the personified evil to any survivor, everyone of them pegged as capable of eating the livers of babies without batting an eye. Then, Umiak would surely appear as the lesser of two evils - slavery might be a condition which can be reversed, as said, and if Umiak are really that unimaginative, human imagination and resourcefulness could be a valuable asset to them, especially if the new subjects to the Hierarchy are allowed to keep their mind intact.

[Imbrooge]

Mind you, if it comes to that, humans would have nothing to lose anymore. Stuffing a run-down, obsolete freighter with the needs to build at least a stable outpost, if not a full colony and repopulate would still be better than doing nothing at all. In a more extreme case, they could hide themselves in cryosleep in a hollowed out asteroid in order for the war to blow over and the dust to be settled before starting to look for a planet to touch down on.

Second, the colony ship might not even need to follow the Orgus route - as long as the possibility exists, they might want to go the other way, away from the front lines. But that would be even a bigger gamble... but again. There'd be nothing to lose anymore, only to win.

Then again, imagine the Loroi putting humans on the brink of extinction. On purpose. Loroi would be the personified evil to any survivor, everyone of them pegged as capable of eating the livers of babies without batting an eye. Then, Umiak would surely appear as the lesser of two evils - slavery might be a condition which can be reversed, as said, and if Umiak are really that unimaginative, human imagination and resourcefulness could be a valuable asset to them, especially if the new subjects to the Hierarchy are allowed to keep their mind intact.

Any and all scenarios of Loroi glassing is extinction level as in no survivors, any and all scenarios of Humans joining the Umiak being possible at all is before the Loroi would even arrive in Human territory let alone the Loroi deciding to glass. Your entire plan hinges on absolute control over airspace (note I say airspace but really it's just the entire space of Human teritory) not being a big deal and somehow just knowing the Loroi will arrive to glass you. Even if you abandon the routes of Orgus airspace and your plan would somehow hit off initially long jumping into deep space is effectively commiting suicide with Arioch's method of space travel and not nearly enough fuel for short jump trips and they're so slow any Loroi vessel will catch up to them. On top of that the timeframe Humanity has makes even things like the asteroid plan effectively impossible since they'll be caught before they're even halfway finished. There is only one winning scenario, join the winning team or die.

Also Arioch has said that jumps can be traced, so hiding from psychic senses is only a nominal comfort when your tech level is so far behind.

[Krulle]

and if Umiak are really that unimaginative, human imagination and resourcefulness could be a valuable asset to them, especially if the new subjects to the Hierarchy are allowed to keep their mind intact.

The Umiak will let you survive, if you can meet their tax targets: all ressources your industry can pump out of the planet you're on, plus all other industrial works you can make.
They'll tax your economy with 100%, and if you dobn't meet that target, you'll be punished.

Read the insider Umiak races.... There is at least one example of a race that is "bankrupt" and is about to kill their own planet, just to meet the requirements of the Umiak.


Also: Human imagination and resourcefulness bein an asset?
And you're falling for the "Fuck yeah, Humanity!"-trope.

[novius]

Also: Human imagination and resourcefulness bein an asset?
And you're falling for the "Fuck yeah, Humanity!"-trope.

To an extent, perhaps. But on the other hand, everyone else is more imaginative than Umiak, who are simply copycats and copyright violators

[Logannion]

While I agree Humanity endangers the Loroi cultural identity (and propaganda) simply by existing, I find it impossible that the Loroi will ever default into "Genocide", be it species wide or simply to the point that Humanity collapses.

IIRC both times the Loroi have been pushed to do so, it was with clear, constant, and enduring provocation from the other side.

Even with the War going on, I can see the Loroi sending out punitive expeditions, or resorting to aggressive gunboat diplomacy, but unprovoked species level genocide? No. As Imperialistic and militaristic some of the loroi are, they're not xenophobic to a fault.

[Galactic Scholar]

Even with the War going on, I can see the Loroi sending out punitive expeditions, or resorting to aggressive gunboat diplomacy, but unprovoked species level genocide? No. As Imperialistic and militaristic some of the loroi are, they're not xenophobic to a fault.

I betcha five bucks the Loroi send a warfleet armed with antimatter bombs and bio-weapons made from the dead human diplomats they took from the Belllarmine.

[Mackus]

This is getting kinda ridiculous.
Even is we assume it's something Loroi actually care about (because they don't look very religious), the worst thing that existence of humanity does, is to imply that Loroi were not first race of Soia-Liron, which as far I can tell, nobody but hardcore nationalists care about. And evidence for them being first was sketchy at best, and by sketchy, I mean non-existent. Or even contrary. They did not leave any fossils except very late period of Soia Empire.
In any case, Loroi are too busy to have time to get angry something to far removed from either daily life or realpolitik machinations of waging war.

[Razor One]

Even with the War going on, I can see the Loroi sending out punitive expeditions, or resorting to aggressive gunboat diplomacy, but unprovoked species level genocide? No. As Imperialistic and militaristic some of the loroi are, they're not xenophobic to a fault.

I betcha five bucks the Loroi send a warfleet armed with antimatter bombs and bio-weapons made from the dead human diplomats they took from the Belllarmine.

A fool and his money are easily parted.

The Loroi are not a monolithic society. We've seen only a vanishingly small fraction of that society under wartime pressure, and to make sweeping judgments about their likely actions based on that tiny fraction is as erroneous as Stillstorm's assumption that Alex was an Umiak attempt at subterfuge, despite that assumption being based on prior experience.

Politics will decide whether or not the Loroi take any kind of military action against Earth, and unlike the Tithric genocide, the politics of the Loroi Union do not allow the Emperor or any line officer with enough clout to matter to make that kind of unilateral call. You may get some small faction calling for Earth's annexation to prevent them from siding with the Umiak, you may even get an even smaller faction calling for wiping Humans out, but they're going to be one small faction in a much vaster pool who will take towards more pragmatic and sensible options.

TL;DR: You need to be actively pushing the Loroi towards being genocidal, and humans haven't pushed the Loroi a single inch in that direction.

[Galactic Scholar]

Razor, are you a forum Moderator? Just wanted to confirm.