WIP Discussion (Part 1!)

[icekatze]

hi hi

In any series where you have lots of different writers, you can end up with lots of different levels of quality.

The insider page on weapon profiles has some good info on torpedo acceleration and endurance.

[novius]

If it's still extreme weapons range even for Umiak torpedoes, Highland-7 would have a good chance of evading them. Given their acceleration of 40-60g (compared to the shuttle's 20g), they'd come in at very high speeds, which is usually a good idea to pass the point defenses of a big (and slow) target. The shuttle could outmaneuver them - Newton's laws of motion would be their friend as the torpedo would have to decelerate and turn around after overshooting -, but that definitely requires some fancy flying, until the torpedoes burn out and go ballistic.

Pretty sure the Umiak know this as well and send only a few torpedoes after the shuttle to keep the rest for more valuable targets. No torpedoes at the shuttle might rise the question if the Umiak are intent on capturing the shuttle and its passengers intact.

Yep, Talon might keep to her promise to show Alex something interesting. Though it doesn't make their fuel situation any better.

[Corpsman_of_Krieg]

hi hi

In any series where you have lots of different writers, you can end up with lots of different levels of quality.

The insider page on weapon profiles has some good info on torpedo acceleration and endurance.

Thanks for the link icekatz. I’m diving back into the Insider topics now that I’ve dediscovered this comic; I am considering printing all of these in a booklet as a primer of sorts for reference throughout my re-reads. I tend to backtrack a few pages every tome a new page is uploaded by Arioch to maximize my contextual understanding of the new scene presented.

[Onaiom]

It's torpedo time !

[Logannion]

If accidental kiss happens I'm gonna lol

[Zarya]

Type-KK Command Cruiser, or anything we haven't seen yet?
http://www.well-of-souls.com/outsider/fleet_umiak.html

[orion1836]

Looks like a gunboat to me.

[CF2]

If accidental kiss happens I'm gonna lol

That might be a little more anime than I'd expect of this story.

[orion1836]

If anything, I think a hard maneuver will cause an accidental headbutt.

*CLONK*

[Zarya]

Looks like a gunboat to me.

Could be. It has plenty of 'guns'
Was assuming that this vessel dispensed the (4x12) torpedoes.

[dragoongfa]

That's certainly a Heavy class ship, probably a vessel set between the KK and KT classes. No tow linkages, it has 4x12 cell missile launchers and at least 6 plasma focus weapons. A variant focused mainly as a missile spammer.

[entity2636]

I count 2x3 plasma cannons and 4x 12-tube missile batteries. The space frame does look similar to a Type-KK, but doesn't appear to have enough guns. Maybe a cheaper variant of the Type-KK?

The missile battery doors are a nice detail and a good idea from a practical point of view - much harder for a lucky hit to ignite the whole battery.

[icekatze]

hi hi

It does look a little bit reminiscent of the Umiak ship on the page 79-80 spread. Different weapon loadout though.

[malletmann]

I thought pretty much every Umiak ship was unique, with a few commonly used templates?

[fredgiblet]

I thought pretty much every Umiak ship was unique, with a few commonly used templates?

That doesn't mean that there wouldn't be recognizable patterns. For a less extreme example, my understanding is that every Nimitz-class carrier is different, there was several years between each one getting launched and things had simply changed in the meantime, so the ships blueprints were tweaked too. And since they were launched they have all undergone various renovations, which were, again, different. That said they are still all recognizably the same class from the outside, even if you can pick various bits out as being different.

[Darroth]

Looks like a Taiidani vessel

[folti]

I thought pretty much every Umiak ship was unique, with a few commonly used templates?

That doesn't mean that there wouldn't be recognizable patterns. For a less extreme example, my understanding is that every Nimitz-class carrier is different, there was several years between each one getting launched and things had simply changed in the meantime, so the ships blueprints were tweaked too. And since they were launched they have all undergone various renovations, which were, again, different. That said they are still all recognizably the same class from the outside, even if you can pick various bits out as being different.

Plus in case of multiple builders, the various builders might use different technologies and/or materials, depending on what's available locally.

An example would be the Soviet Li-2 cargo plane, which started as license built DC-3, but ended up as an incompatible descendant, due to being redesigned for a whole host of reasons, including the Soviets using the metric system, the requirement to have better cold climate capability, and a somewhat different local built engine (which was a licensed development of the Wright R-1820 engine powering early variant DC-3s) among other things.

The lesser known Japanese license built variant, the Showa/Nakajima L2D was more closer to the original design, the biggest difference was the minor redesign for using a local built engine.

[Corpsman_of_Krieg]

I thought pretty much every Umiak ship was unique, with a few commonly used templates?

That doesn't mean that there wouldn't be recognizable patterns. For a less extreme example, my understanding is that every Nimitz-class carrier is different, there was several years between each one getting launched and things had simply changed in the meantime, so the ships blueprints were tweaked too. And since they were launched they have all undergone various renovations, which were, again, different. That said they are still all recognizably the same class from the outside, even if you can pick various bits out as being different.

I can personally attest to the fact that you can take any two machines from the same fleet, be they fuel trucks, armored vehicles, or aircraft, set them side by side for a comparison, and find any number of minor idiosyncrasies that range from cosmetic to performance differences. This, along with the fact that a base frame may indeed be solid but modifications to a statistically significant portion of the fleet may be necessary, can result in multiple evolutions of the same core. The B-17 from WW2, for example, was heralded as the iconic aircraft of the European Theater, but the silhouette most commonly associated was the B-17G. Earlier iterations still served, but in many cases lacked elements (such as the ball turret on the belly of the aircraft) commonly associated with the “common” model.

I could easily see Umiak vessels using this model in their designs. Build a core system, modify and update as needed, without decommissioning older versions. Modern military designs have reduced the number of iterations (the M1 Abrams has only had the M1A1 and M1A2 primary mods created since it entered service in 1981, meaning three total versions in nearly 47 years, as compared to the B-17A through H, I think, making for nine versions in about a third of the number of years), but I see the Umiak as utilitarian in the extreme, thus making this design principle heartening back to our own World Wars 1 and 2 to be most appropriate.

[Krulle]

In wartime improvements get implemented faster than in peace times, when investing into the military is mainly a "Sic vis pacem, para bellum" approach.

In peace times, updating the current model of tank/plane/ship is extremely expensive compared to the amount of platforms actually sold.
Once in war, you don't have time to upgrade "in service" models beyond necesity, and you simply buy a new model with improvements.

Therefore in war times (when you have a full assembly line working all the time, mass-producing), you simply get more upgrades into produced models on the manufacturing/assembly line than in peace times, when only a limited amount of elements are ever assembled.
Which results in a shorter life-span of a model being built.


Anyway, this digresses.
The diversity of the Umiak ships gets also explained by them producing as many ships as they can, with far higher losses than the Loroi have, with no intention to ever upgrade them again (as they are often lost in their war(s)). Each "client" planet builds according to their capacity and ability. And this alone results in more differences than with the Loroi, who seem to be more centralised in their big ship assemblies.
Their ships follow more the pattern of "cheap, but functional for what is requested" approach, while the Loroi ships do seem to have much more "diversity in function" in their design, which is costly.

[folti]

I thought pretty much every Umiak ship was unique, with a few commonly used templates?

That doesn't mean that there wouldn't be recognizable patterns. For a less extreme example, my understanding is that every Nimitz-class carrier is different, there was several years between each one getting launched and things had simply changed in the meantime, so the ships blueprints were tweaked too. And since they were launched they have all undergone various renovations, which were, again, different. That said they are still all recognizably the same class from the outside, even if you can pick various bits out as being different.

I can personally attest to the fact that you can take any two machines from the same fleet, be they fuel trucks, armored vehicles, or aircraft, set them side by side for a comparison, and find any number of minor idiosyncrasies that range from cosmetic to performance differences. This, along with the fact that a base frame may indeed be solid but modifications to a statistically significant portion of the fleet may be necessary, can result in multiple evolutions of the same core. The B-17 from WW2, for example, was heralded as the iconic aircraft of the European Theater, but the silhouette most commonly associated was the B-17G. Earlier iterations still served, but in many cases lacked elements (such as the ball turret on the belly of the aircraft) commonly associated with the “common” model.

I could easily see Umiak vessels using this model in their designs. Build a core system, modify and update as needed, without decommissioning older versions. Modern military designs have reduced the number of iterations (the M1 Abrams has only had the M1A1 and M1A2 primary mods created since it entered service in 1981, meaning three total versions in nearly 47 years, as compared to the B-17A through H, I think, making for nine versions in about a third of the number of years), but I see the Umiak as utilitarian in the extreme, thus making this design principle heartening back to our own World Wars 1 and 2 to be most appropriate.

Even the M1 variants have at least half a dozen sub-variants/upgrades tailored to special needs, or for a different customer requirements in case of the export variants. And that's a tank, that has only a single manufacturer, with historically two manufacturing locations.

Compare it to say the T-72, which have been license built at least half a dozen different countries, and have been tinkered by another two dozen, including upgrade packages made by organizations with no prior contact with the original builders.