Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

[Krulle]

Well, knowing Human males, and how contolled certain avcess is, there is plenty of room for unofficial sideservices, boosting morale even more...
Until the military high command gets to know about it and stamps it dwn.

And then they forbid mixed crews, and then they wonder why crew morale drops...

Meh, dirty old man here...

[orion1836]

Well, knowing Human males, and how contolled certain avcess is, there is plenty of room for unofficial sideservices, boosting morale even more...
Until the military high command gets to know about it and stamps it dwn.

And then they forbid mixed crews, and then they wonder why crew morale drops...

Meh, dirty old man here...

They'd probably bring in human women, just for that reason.

[dragoongfa]

Human women will be instinctively seen as the opposition by the Loroi who won't see any reason to not resolve things with physical violence if someone becomes catty. A Loroi would restrain herself from hitting a man in the same way a man would restrain themselves from hitting a woman which should keep things peaceful if somewhat strained until the various interpersonal boundaries are established.

And since it has been established that Loroi are about as strong as a man then things won't go too well between Loroi warrior and human women, at least at first.

[Arioch]

Human women will be instinctively seen as the opposition by the Loroi who won't see any reason to not resolve things with physical violence if someone becomes catty. A Loroi would restrain herself from hitting a man in the same way a man would restrain themselves from hitting a woman which should keep things peaceful if somewhat strained until the various interpersonal boundaries are established.

And since it has been established that Loroi are about as strong as a man then things won't go too well between Loroi warrior and human women, at least at first.

Because as we know, fistfights often break out between hairdressers and their clients. o_O

[dragoongfa]

Human women will be instinctively seen as the opposition by the Loroi who won't see any reason to not resolve things with physical violence if someone becomes catty. A Loroi would restrain herself from hitting a man in the same way a man would restrain themselves from hitting a woman which should keep things peaceful if somewhat strained until the various interpersonal boundaries are established.

And since it has been established that Loroi are about as strong as a man then things won't go too well between Loroi warrior and human women, at least at first.

Because as we know, fistfights often break out between hairdressers and their clients. o_O

I have not seen firefights but I have seen the aftermath of a cat-fight when a poor hairdresser cut a little too much hair. That hair salon closed for a whole day after that.

[Arioch]

I have not seen firefights but I have seen the aftermath of a cat-fight when a poor hairdresser cut a little too much hair. That hair salon closed for a whole day after that.

Perhaps that's a Greek thing?

[dragoongfa]

Certain Greek women are Cray Cray.

[Mr.Tucker]

If the respective populations ever got close enough to support that sort of contact, I could see human chiropractors and chiropractic massage therapists making a ton of money off the Loroi. Military life is hard on the back and short of problems requiring surgery, chiropractics works wonders. I think once one or two Loroi got over their touch aversion enough to try it, those services would be highly sought after as they would offer relief without the telepathic connection.

Chiropractors are unrecognised. D.O.'s are what you be looking for, alongside therapeutic massage practioners (LICENSED!!).

[Logannion]

"This is Samantha Cardiger from the Interstellar News Network."

"In International news, local Loroi authorities in Seinar have conducted a series of raids aimed at local human massage parlours, arresting 45 sentients, of which 22 were human. A communique issued by the Loroi embassy state that these actions were conducted due to the 'malicious' effect the massage parlours had on Loroi morals and norms. Immigrant rights groups in Earth have condemned these actions, labelling them 'discriminative' and 'authoritarian'. Security experts meanwhile, have speculated that these actions were motivated by security concerns instead, chief among them were Dr. Humas Polaski, former head of the Internal Security Agency."

"With me here today to discuss this issue is Loroi Anthropology expert Professor Lukas Feng and former and first ambassador to the Loroi Uni...

Really, given how much a headache a human immigrant population could be, I can't see much reason for them being shipped to Loroi planets other than as refugees. The industry must be so automated (and the tech disparity too large) to even preclude the thought of skills based migration.

[entity2636]

I try to avoid getting into discussions about dubious "services" terrans could provide the desperate and undersexed loroi not only because it is absurd but also stinks of teenie boy fantasies. I will, however, point out that with how advanced loroi medicine appears to be, there would litterally be no need for a masseuse - if you have a bad back, just go see a doctor, they can probably grow you a new spine directly inside your body on state budget. As for hairdressers - as far as I remember, loroi civilians are required by law to be bald and the soldiers let only their closest friends near their hair.

By the way, exactly how advanced is loroi medicine? Remember Clearbrook's captain? She appears to have a nasty scar across her face and nose (or is that just a very bad tattoo?).

I know diseases are pretty much a non-issue for them, but how about cancers, skin/tissue/organ repair or regeneration? Can they grow back whole limbs, for example?

[Dorfington]

I try to avoid getting into discussions about dubious "services" terrans could provide the desperate and undersexed loroi not only because it is absurd but also stinks of teenie boy fantasies.

Well what we know about Loroi females is this;

Their culture has caused them to develop a very clinical approach to sexual intercourse;
They form emotional bonds primarily through their telepathic abilities, not physical contact;
They are highly adverse to physical contact;
Their extremely skewed sex ratio causes Loroi to be accustomed to long periods without sex;
Adding on to the previous point, the majority of Loroi likely go through their whole lives having only experienced one mating encounter with a male (unless it is a time of war in which case it's still potentially one encounter due to the hazards of said war.)

As fun as it is to joke around with the idea of the Loroi drooling at a species of abundant aliens that are identical to their males, if a little bigger and rougher around the edges, I've come to believe that it would be rather difficult for a human male to have a romantic relationship with a loroi. Unless of course the loroi mistakenly believes the human male is more similar to their own than they actually are when propositioned, and that approach would only work if you're only looking for quickies.

Also loroi resenting pregnancy as it interferes with their duties, with the majority not having to worry about raising said children (and possibly never seeing them), is yet another spanner thrown in. The only loroi that I can imagine a human male having any success with would probably be a civilian. All the rest seem to be cold fish in regards to sex and romance.

Now that I refer to them as such, I'm reminded that their body temperature is lower than ours. Coincidence? I think not! Loroi are space fish that use mind tricks on poor unsuspecting males confirmed!

[icekatze]

hi hi

I don't know if all of those things are true about the Loroi. They're not necessarily adverse to all physical contact, rather they are adverse to casual physical contact, and physical contact with individuals who are not close friends. (Just because someone isn't into public displays of affection, does not mean they're not into affection, for instance.)

The difference between what is culturally accepted and what people are interested is not always very small, especially in an authoritarian culture.

That being said, I also think that interspecies romance would have a number of difficulties, to say the least.

[entity2636]

The only loroi that I can imagine a human male having any success with would probably be a civilian. All the rest seem to be cold fish in regards to sex and romance.

I would say the best candidates would be mizols and doranzers (medics).

Mizols are used to speaking aloud among themselves, often work with aliens as diplomats and as such are more accustomed and open to foreign cultures, they are fine with not using telepathy for communication all the time and keeping mental barriers (lotai) up all the time so other mizols can't read their thoughts and steal their secrets.

Doranzers are also very good at keeping mental barriers up and not afraid or uncomfortable touching other people. They are medics after all, they have seen everything and they can't be touchy about touching their patients when lives need to be saved. Anyone who knows a doctor or, better yet, a paramedic, can probably confirm that they are a weird bunch and there isn't much that they would be somehow uncomfortable with. I'm sure the loroi doctors are similar.

Admittedly we know very little about loroi civilians but from what I gather is that most loroi civilian women haven't seen much of the outside world, haven't met many aliens and most probably don't know how to speak Trade or any other spoken language. They may not even have seen a man, loroi or otherwise in person and wouldn't even know what to do and how to behave around a man. They're second class citizens, seen as failures and dropouts by the military junta that runs the Loroi Union. Remember - a young loroi girl's reward for "graduating" the diral is a mating encounter and resulting pregnancy. If she washes out of the diral - no graduation, no reward and civilian life with a shiny bald head for the rest of her days.

[orion1836]

I try to avoid getting into discussions about dubious "services" terrans could provide the desperate and undersexed loroi not only because it is absurd but also stinks of teenie boy fantasies. I will, however, point out that with how advanced loroi medicine appears to be, there would literally be no need for a masseuse - if you have a bad back, just go see a doctor, they can probably grow you a new spine directly inside your body on state budget.

In my defense, I was pointing out a niche market that we could fill (and that would likely be filled with *women* for that very reason, if not to simply make the Loroi feel more comfortable).

Having dated a chiropractic massage therapist, I'm pretty confident that the skill will still be valuable in 2151, on Earth or any other planet. Even with unlimited technology... we'd probably just end up with a machine that does the same thing human therapists currently do. Even today with options for ultrasonic and electric muscle stimulation, it's hard to beat the effects of a masseuse who is medically trained to put you back together. I went from being unable to stand up straight to fully functional in about an hour after a nasty pull a few years back. It's incredible.

Who's to say that other benefits couldn't be found? The Loroi, until now, have used touch sparingly. Now that they have a like race who can touch them without the side-effects that the Loroi usually experience, there might be other benefits. The scalp massages performed by mid-east barbers can put you in an almost trance like state if done right... what sort of effects might that state have on a far-seer, or a Teidar?

[boldilocks]

I don't know where it got stuck in my head that the loroi were a designed species, but if they are, why would beryl refer to their gender ratio as a natural adaption for a warrior species?
Does that imply that at some point they were 50-50?

[icekatze]

hi hi

I find that it is pretty common for people to take some existing genetic trait and treat it as proof of their own views. In the field of science, this is often considered working backwards from a conclusion.

I'd say it is more likely that the Loroi warrior caste is generally proud of their warrior traditions, and their reproduction abilities are seen from that perspective, with a natural tendency to disregard other less glorious possibilities. (Fecundity is also a highly desirable trait in livestock, just for example.)

[entity2636]

I don't know where it got stuck in my head that the loroi were a designed species, but if they are, why would beryl refer to their gender ratio as a natural adaption for a warrior species?
Does that imply that at some point they were 50-50?

From the Insider, probably, and no, it doesn't.

Thus far, no loroi "on screen" has mentioned or implied that they are an artificial species, a soia-liron (soia blue) species, that they share biochemistry with the Neridi and Barsam, or anything else in that direction. Nor does anyone say the opposite for that matter, that they evolved naturally somewhere. Not much time has passed "on screen" and the characters always had more important things to worry about here and now so this probably just hasn't come up yet.

But if we take the Insider as common knowledge among the loroi, then yes, they are well aware that they are artificial and didn't evolve naturally. There is no archaeological evidence of any pre collapse loroi civilisations nor prehistoric loroi fossils. All evidence suggests that the loroi as a species sort-of-kind-of just appeared out of nowhere on Deinar, Taben and Perrein after the collapse of the Soia empire. Literally "fell out of the sky" would be a fitting description.

Beryl doesn't say it is a natural adaptation, she says it's a basic adaptation that allows for maximum reproductive capacity while at the same time offering a mechanism for population control. She also says that "the loroi consider" [the above] to be a trait of a warrior species.

To me this comes across as the official loroi government's point of view (propaganda), after all, the loroi government is the military as much as the military is their government, but I get the impression that the military, i.e. the warrior castes, as far as one can consider the Gallen, Doranzers and Listels to be warriors, is NOT the majority of the loroi population. As such they [the warrior castes] are using this as proof of their legitimacy and superiority over the rest of their population and other species to an extent.

[edit]
Come to think of it, if we were to break down the loroi military by caste representation, I think that we would see a disproportional majority to be Soroin and Tenoin, with very few Teidar and even fewer of the support castes. If I remember correctly, a teidar usually is in command of a soroin/tenoin squad or unit during combat. Torrai is more a rank or title rather than a true caste. The Soroin and Tenoin do not appear to have any outstanding physical or psychic traits and fill the roles of greenshirts/cannon fodder in the loroi war machine. I've said this before - not exactly what one would call a warrior species, even a high-tech one.
[/edit]

[Arioch]

All of the species that Beryl knows of which she considers to be "warrior" species - Loroi, Barsam, Delrias and Umiak - each has some kind of adaptation for very high reproductive rates. Whether these adaptations were artificially induced or "naturally evolved" has very little to do with Beryl's remark. Since humans look almost identical to Loroi, she thought it was reasonable to guess that they have adapted in a similar way.

There were (at least) two waves of precursor civilizations that swept through the local bubble; it is widely believed that they came from somewhere else in the galaxy. If so, you would not expect to find their ancestors or homeworlds in local territory; the absence of knowledge of where these species originated is not compelling evidence that they must have been artificially created.

The Loroi have some evidence from genetic studies that their ancestors were probably gene-modified in some way, but this does not necessarily imply that they are an "artificial species", as they assume it is normal for an ultra-tech society to introduce some modifications into their own genome. Most Loroi do not believe that their ancestors were artificially created. Of course, they don't yet know about the existence of a lookalike local species in the form of Humanity.

The Barsam, on the other hand, do know that their own ancestors were either extensively modified or outright created, because they know about the lookalike Nibiren, and they know that the Nibiren are a locally-evolved species that predates the appearance of their own ancestors. This revelation had a profound impact on Barsam society, and led in part to the rise of the Barsam religion.

The Soroin and Tenoin do not appear to have any outstanding physical or psychic traits and fill the roles of greenshirts/cannon fodder in the loroi war machine. I've said this before - not exactly what one would call a warrior species, even a high-tech one.

It's odd that folks seem to define a "warrior species" as one that must have advantages in infantry or hand-to-hand combat, even when it's an ultra-tech setting in which the fighting that really matters happens ship to ship.

[Arent]

All of the species that Beryl knows of which she considers to be "warrior" species - Loroi, Barsam, Delrias and Umiak - each has some kind of adaptation for very high reproductive rates. Whether these adaptations were artificially induced or "naturally evolved" has very little to do with Beryl's remark. Since humans look almost identical to Loroi, she thought it was reasonable to guess that they have adapted in a similar way.

Of course this is a comic & in this sense that explanation is completely ok. Never kill a good story because of logic

But I want to point out that the best adaption for high reproductive rates is simply having several children in one go. Which is present in many mammals, for example mice. So, the Loroi should first of all have a tendency to have twins or simply several children. And then you could still think about the male/female ratio.

I also want to point out that for biological reasons, a digression from 50:50 is not stable & would quickly return to 50:50. But I assume you know all that.

The story is fun & completely fine. Just wanted to point out that there are some minor logic problems, but nothing severe.

[entity2636]

But I want to point out that the best adaption for high reproductive rates is simply having several children in one go. Which is present in many mammals, for example mice. So, the Loroi should first of all have a tendency to have twins or simply several children. And then you could still think about the male/female ratio.

I also want to point out that for biological reasons, a digression from 50:50 is not stable & would quickly return to 50:50. But I assume you know all that.

Correct and I would add that this is a natural adaptation for bottom of the food chain prey species that have no means of defending themselves and must multiply quickly to avoid being hunted to extinction (like mice) or apex predator/warrior species like, say, felines, canines and ursines, but the gender ratio is always close to 50:50 to avoid population bottlenecks and inbreeding. Anywhere in between you normally have small litters of 1-2 young or just one or two survive into adulthood.

It's odd that folks seem to define a "warrior species" as one that must have advantages in infantry or hand-to-hand combat, even when it's an ultra-tech setting in which the fighting that really matters happens ship to ship.

Yes, because even in a high-tech setting a warrior species would not evolve naturally, nor genetically degrade themselves into being near helpless when not inside a tank or starship, furthermore, to be biologically prone to population bottlenecks (just a couple of well placed nukes could make the loroi go extinct), a high level of inbreeding and the resulting risk of genetic defects. A warrior society, which both the loroi and the terrans undoubtedly are, is a whole different thing. A society can readily evolve into becoming warlike or peaceful, depending on a number internal and external factors and biology will play a secondary or tertiary role.

If the loroi were unique among the Bubble species, i.e. the only soia-liron species or the only species that was genetically tampered with, and I mean extensively genetically tampered, with the DNA nearly devoid of evolutionary garbage, one could readily assume that they did it to themselves in the distant past, for whatever reason. Since they are not unique, it becomes logical to assume that there was a third party that did it to all of them, meaning they are an artificial species to a degree.