I am not a History expert, however what I have read is as follows.
Russia was not on par Industrially with Germany even before losing most of their industry at the start of the invasion and it was only later in the war mid 1942-1943 with the exploitation of Eastern resources where they not only matched Germany but became the single largest producer of land war material in the world, even exceeding the USA in total tonnage produced.
HOWEVER
Russias total GDP was still below that of even preinvasion levels and many sectors such as farming were effectively left to wither as everything was directed towards military production.
Is anything I said previous post or above wrong?
I am not a history expert so feel free to just list a few books that disagree and I will be happy to read them.
Neither the Umiak or Loroi can just send fleets to attack Humanity
Based on the maps.
Umiak distance to Terran space is currently 20% of their total empire width in distance(they are closer then the Loroi), while Loroi distance to Terran space is 50% of their empire size.
Neither have warships that can travel that distance without being refueled, both on the way to Terran space and on the way back, at least what I remember from insider and Arioch statements, I can be corrected if I am remembering wrong.
Defense with current 2020 tech...
Earth currently has enough Uranium in known ore deposits if using Fusion reactors for breeding fissionable material to make 1 million Orion drive missiles to the following specs...
4500 ton Orion Drive to the Orion projects dimensions but with the following changes.
1.Disc shaped bomb that directs larger % of the blast into the Plate.
2.Plate increased in size so it does not absorb only 10% of the explosion but in conjunction with the larger blast plate reaches ~45%.
3.1gigaton Warhead casimer howitzer (because why the hell not its, so big it can carry it) deployable or Macron Cannon.
4.Dummy blow up(baloon) "warheads" (same tech as used by current ICBMs) to confuse radar and draw interceptor missile fire.
5.Rest of the spare payload space used to house extra bombs for the drive ~2800 in total...
Performance
15.5 mins of 40.5g max acceleration or ~5 mins at 108g (0-40% higher accel as weight reduces)
1Gigaton Casimer howitzer effective range using most recent hydrogen plasma beam experiments(from around 2000).
Results in
5% of energy directed towards target at 0.09773843811168301 mrad divergence
5 megatons or 277190 damage in outsider numbers
at 20000km across 350m*150m target will take around total damage of 12000(equal to 3 direct hits by Unspent Umiak/Loroi Torpedoes detonating directly against the hull)
110m macron Cannon Orion drive, 50000km engagement range vs Loroi, constant stream output 53 damage every 60 seconds at 50000km.(hit chance/avg)
The only things that make these weapons hard to mass produce(today) are
1.Getting the material into orbit.
2.Producing enough fissionable material
3.Lack of deterium for Casimer howitzer on Earth.
4.Ability to mass produce the Macrons(encapsulated hydrogen in carbon)
So making the assumption that 160 years in the future with automated production/mining robots and over 20billion humans mass producing along with large commercial fleets(as stated in insider) Humanity can...
1.Mine Deterium from sources off Earth.(outer solar system such as Titan)
2.Mine Mercury for Uranium for fissionable material and using fusion breeder reactors to convert non fissible uranium(~60% of whats mined).
3.getting crap to orbit isn't a problem...
4.Mass produce macron ammo.
If such assumptions are considered true(and I believe they are very reasonable assumptions) Humanity in outsider can build defensive weapons that functionally on par with Umiak/Loroi in terms of effectiveness in actual battle. With the difficulty being they are not easily transported between systems or used offensively.
Using USA ww2 aircraft production and ramp up because I am equating the difficulty in resources/production of Orion missiles in 2160 to ENTIRE humanity to be on par with aircraft in 1940 for the USA.
Had to start somewhere...
Further 10% of 2018 steel production gives ~40000 Orion drive frames(no bombs/warhead) so its not unrealistic in terms of devoted resources.
lets assume 4 years production because the Umiak/Loroi fleets will take months to arrive...
2158- 3611 produced(infrastructure set down)
2159- 18466 produced
2160- 46907 produced
2161- 84853 produced
Total- 153837
Terrans have been stated to be in a cul-de-sac of Jump lines, this limits the number of jump lines they need to defend.
I cant tell just how many pathways into Terran space their are from the Insider 2d map, lets go with 4 systems.
Thats 38459 missiles in each system...
Umiak ships seem to carry 100 torpedoes on average(cells+1 complete reload)
100 ships is 10000 torpedoes...
38459 Orion Missiles with a Kinetic Kill and deployable stand off warhead+decoys should in my estimation overwhelm a Loroi/Umiak fleet of 100 ships. Switch them to Macron cannons and they would wipe them out easily, and Macrons actually use LESS resources then 1gig H bombs.
How many ships can the Loroi/Umiak afford to send and how many losses are they willing to take destroying Humanity when we are not even their primary target?
I don't make the claim Terrans in outsider can stand against the Umiak/Loroi if they want to devote themselves to destroying us, my claim is we can make it NOT WORTH trying long enough to close the tech gap.
Cthulhu wrote: ↑Sun Aug 08, 2021 7:33 am
MBehave wrote: ↑Sat Aug 07, 2021 8:51 pm
Apparently in your version of WW2 Russians had comparable technology with equal effectiveness vs the Germans but Russians were all dumb and stupid and simply couldn't learn though the entire war.
I've studied history, among other things, and I know far more about the topic. The Russians during the beginning of the war were unaccustomed to the Blitzkrieg, outnumbered and losing huge amounts of troops and material during their hasty retreat, trading land for time. But this is not a military history forum, it's the Q&A thread of a sci-fi webcomic.
The problem is your usage of this ill-fitting comparison, since it belies your inadequate knowledge of either history or the comic's setting. What I'm trying to explain is that both sides were on roughly the same tech level and neither had an overwhelming advantage in numbers, technology or industrial might. In Outsider, however, Humanity is utterly deficient in every regard, with no time to catch up.
Therefore, how about studying the lore and trying to come up with a new insight? If you uncover something interesting, then you can compile that and present it in a new thread.
Let's keep this thread on topic and the forum orderly, shall we?