Concept Fanart of Future Terran Ship Designs

[bunnyboy]

Just to mention. I found out that Iron Sky has some interesting tasks for help their movie.
Like design or model some believable nonscifi spaceships.
They are also filming something in New York from 13th to 18th of August.

[Mjolnir]

There is lot of stuff in the orbit of any planet, where is live and space traffik. Satellites, other merchant ships, spaceturists taking their minutes in orbit, maybe even some depris cleaners. You may wan't to wait for clean space, but you can't keep your launch window open for infinity. And you pay to the tower for the every minute.

So what? All that stuff is going to be tracked anyway, and starships in particular due to the destructive potential if something went wrong near a planet. It's not like it comes anywhere close to being too much to keep track of.

You're talking about piracy happening in plain sight, with a record of the pirates' travel before and after the event. What you suggest is like muggers picking a police station parking lot as their preferred location to operate. Your pirates go up and hit a juicy target as it boosts from a spaceport...congratulations, they're now known in all space as pirates, and going by your plan, as the people who left a starship crippled in an orbit that makes it a hazard to other ships, satellites, stations, and the planet below. Even the most corrupt official will object to starships crashing in their back yard. Where do they sell the loot they just stole? Where do they land to resupply?

[bunnyboy]

When you rob a bank, you first stole a car and first thing after getaway you dispose it. Same rules here.

Racing between stars or planets are far different scale than small jumps to orbit. Think difference between Boeing Jumbojet or propelled Cessna.
How easily you can buy or stole either one and how easily you can land or hide one.
You don't start deep space piratism until you have more wealth to spend than small nation and trust that you can work it back with 10-50 years.

Or you can get a missile and shoot the ship down from parking lot with hoping that your friends are ready to pick up any surviving gargo.

Space Piratism is difficult and it need do fast, before anyone can react.

[Trantor]

When you rob a bank, you first stole a car and first thing after getaway you dispose it. Same rules here.

But even a perfect plan leaves traces...

Or you can get a missile and shoot the ship down from parking lot with hoping that your friends are ready to pick up any surviving gargo.

From orbit (Earth 28.000km/h) to surface?

Space Piratism is difficult and it need do fast, before anyone can react.

Still doesn´t work IMHO.
The only scenario for piratism would be a defunct civilization, with colonies fighting each other.

[Mjolnir]

The only scenario for piratism would be a defunct civilization, with colonies fighting each other.

It's still possible, but in a very restricted way. Hijack a ship, make them land where you want and unload their cargo to your contacts on the ground. Do it right and the authorities don't know piracy has taken place until the ship operators report it, by which time you're gone. Much more doable than stealing a departing or arriving ship and then...well, that plan kind of falls apart right there, as you've got nowhere to go.

Of course, then people start putting silent alarm triggers everywhere in their ships and using deadman switches and watchdog timers that let them arrange for the pirates to run into a waiting police force as they attempt to run off with the stolen cargo...

[fredgiblet]

When you rob a bank, you first stole a car and first thing after getaway you dispose it. Same rules here.

Except it doesn't really work, spaceships aren't cars, stealing a spaceship won't be as easy as stealing a car. Spaceships are going to be expensive, meaning that the people who can afford them will expend effort towards protecting them. It's not going to be as simple as walking down a street at 2 A.M. and checking for unlocked doors. Stealing a ship alone will be a major endeavor.

And even if you do steal a ship it still doesn't fix the actual problem. From the moment you take off you're going to be tracked, once you perform an intercept you will have the attention of pretty much everyone on the planet. Once you get your booty onto your ship you'll be tracked by anyone and everyone with a sight-line. You will not be able to hide.

[Mjolnir]

On the subject of tracking objects in space...

http://www.spaceweather.com/submissions ... 616258.gif

http://www.spaceweather.com/submissions ... 631386.jpg

Of note: these are quite small telescopes (15 cm and 43 cm scopes tracking the starfield, and a 30 cm scope tracking the spacecraft) with pretty unspectacular optical sensors, peering up through a thick, active atmosphere and subject to a variety of different sorts of light pollution. Juno crossed the orbit of the moon about a day after launch, at this time it was probably a handful of light seconds out. And it's just a 3625 kg probe, mostly visible by its three 2.7x8.9 meter solar panels (one of which has a magnetometer in place of one solar panel section).

[DevilDalek]

Ah yes, sorry discord, it was not intentional!

There will be a central 'plug' for lack of a better word that comes out the back of the ship for easy access for swapping or repairing the Fold Space engines and the power-plant, there will be several sensor clusters, all with easy access for change and servicing needs.

Now I am juggling with the idea of the computer systems be de-centralized basically plug and play desk top units (ruggedized for military use) scattered throughout the ship, sharing information on the ships own internal communications network, each computer can be swapped to the work station it needs to be with a simple download of a program suite, the programs and their activation codes of course being held by a specialist officer. However if a big central data core is needed, simply moving a new one in and out of the ship wouldn't be a problem as the access corridors would probably be extra wide to accommodate other possible upgrades etc.

The actual normal drives themselves would be attached in armored pods that can easily be removed and replaced.

At the moment though Im trying to get an idea of what these systems (power plant, fold space generators, drives etc) actually look like so I have a better idea of how it might go together, also the amount of fuel, how volatile it is (can it be placed in gaps between the internal delicate instrumentation and the exterior hull to act as an additional armor buffer, or is it so explosive it needs to be armored) . Things like that.

[discord]

DD: exotic matter fuel...assume it makes antimatter seem stable and will probably not be MORE unstable compared to prediction.....probably.

[NOMAD]

There will be a central 'plug' for lack of a better word that comes out the back of the ship for easy access for swapping or repairing the Fold Space engines and the power-plant, there will be several sensor clusters, all with easy access for change and servicing needs.

Now I am juggling with the idea of the computer systems be de-centralized basically plug and play desk top units (ruggedized for military use) scattered throughout the ship, sharing information on the ships own internal communications network, each computer can be swapped to the work station it needs to be with a simple download of a program suite, the programs and their activation codes of course being held by a specialist officer. However if a big central data core is needed, simply moving a new one in and out of the ship wouldn't be a problem as the access corridors would probably be extra wide to accommodate other possible upgrades etc.

The actual normal drives themselves would be attached in armored pods that can easily be removed and replaced.

At the moment though Im trying to get an idea of what these systems (power plant, fold space generators, drives etc) actually look like so I have a better idea of how it might go together, also the amount of fuel, how volatile it is (can it be placed in gaps between the internal delicate instrumentation and the exterior hull to act as an additional armor buffer, or is it so explosive it needs to be armored) . Things like that.

Its sound to me like the whole ship could be built using a modular construction method ( or the next best thing) give all the components that would be interchangeable ( re upgrades is discribe DD). however, give my limited knowledge of current ship rebuilding/upgrading techniques, you can only do so much improvement (even with module system in place) IE the Canadian ship that participated in the Gulf war one had to bolt on their CIWS units before deploying

as for fuel: discord is correct, a terran ships would require an exotic matter fuel system just to keep up with the loroi ( even they gave us a strip down drive to study). so No on the armour ( although you could use cargo spaces that contain non-essential gear so space armour, just a though

[DevilDalek]

Hmm, well it looks like my idea about the storm shelters in old space craft might work then.

I figured they would evolve into a high survival core unit in the center of the ship, basically anything really really important would sit in one of these.

So the fuel might not take up much space, but its containment would, and would not be pumped in but most likely arrive in sealed packages with their own on board containment that plugs directly into the ships power feed and have a back up battery supply in case of emergencies.

OK, so the fuel has to be very well armored and cared for as well as being close to the power plant and drives.

I like the idea of cargo space as added wimple shielding though, thanks NOMAD

The whole ship being built using a modular construction method was my original intention, that way the big shipyards would only have to do the hull and fitting out, with the smaller components and modules being shipped in from smaller manufacturing yards. It started from my original idea to decentralize ship production as much as possible, while speeding it up.

As to what real world designs I've been looking at, it would be the Blohm Voss Meko range, kind of a next step up from this level.

http://www.facebook.com/pages/MEKO/132802363427043
(Yes, they have a facebook page!)

Om another note, do the Terrans possess some kind of gravity nullification system? or at least artificial gravity, I notice in the prologue they all seem to be acting under normal gravity,
and if is so do they have the capability of reducing mass/weight of something to make it easier to move it about? (Im thinking of handling systems for the Folding dock here)

[discord]

DD: in space you could actually get away with TOTAL modularity...make standard sized boxes, lets say 10x10x20m in size, with 'connectors' on all six sides, and start playing lego.

all modules are for 'something' just add boxes as you wish....when you think about it, that makes umiak varied ship design seem rigid in comparison.

make extra large boxes for BIG stuff, just double it. 20x20x40m and you get a super sized engine module, or whatever.

and when you have a design with functions you like, you can either give it a super paint job(spray on armor using CVD or similar technique, just add 'masking tape' where you want something to come out of the armor, like connectors for sensors, turret mountings, engine exhausts etc.), use armor plate system, or just ignore armor and have a civilian design.

[junk]

DD: in space you could actually get away with TOTAL modularity...make standard sized boxes, lets say 10x10x20m in size, with 'connectors' on all six sides, and start playing lego.

all modules are for 'something' just add boxes as you wish....when you think about it, that makes umiak varied ship design seem rigid in comparison.

make extra large boxes for BIG stuff, just double it. 20x20x40m and you get a super sized engine module, or whatever.

and when you have a design with functions you like, you can either give it a super paint job(spray on armor using CVD or similar technique, just add 'masking tape' where you want something to come out of the armor, like connectors for sensors, turret mountings, engine exhausts etc.), use armor plate system, or just ignore armor and have a civilian design.

Well even with going a full modular system you will want to keep a number of rigid parts. Think of them as a stability frame if you wish. And most likely as a bigger benefit for structural integrity. Plus this allows you to run your main wires in a relatively safe location, same goes for air, and others.

While having stuff attached to this frame be as modular as possible. Ideally you will have a multi tiered modular system in the end.

a) larger specialised modules designed to perform specialised tasks. habitation, ecm whatever really.
b) smaller modular equipment which can be quickly swapped in and out of those large modules in case some of the equipment breaks down. Ideally you will want it as generic as possible so that the exactly same equipment can be used across as many areas as possible.

To be honest as a decentralised p2p on a ship has some merits and would definitely be included, I feel that the very size of a ship would actually lend itself to have at least two to three strong powerful cluster that can perform the bulk of required tasks. Essentially with the size of the ship you could get pretty serious light lag that could impact performance. Which is something I doubt anyone really wants.

Space Piratism is difficult and it need do fast, before anyone can react.

Aaaactually. You probably have all the time in the world. Space is big, information lag is massive and if you do manage to work on a hit somehow anyhow, it's more likely that people will figure out that something happened to the ship only once it doesn't arrive. Since we know their communication is at LS.

The major problem with space piracy is actually finding a way to intercept the civie ship. Plus ships are probably hilariously expensive for terrans at the moment, means that usually you will only find big corps, and government forces with access to them.

[Cy83r]

Hm, it would have to be something like an armed robbery; you need to hit a target that won't compromise its safety over the sanctity of the cargo and/or not being boarded, you would need at least two ships if not three (at least one marine boarding ship and at least one lookout/gunman), every one of your ships should be able to intercept the target and it is likely that those pulling the heist will have several outlayers waiting on potential intercept vectors, lastly your marines should be able to easily overcome any opposition while boarding the target and account for manpower and firepower lost while and after having secured the goods.

All of this points towards piracy and privateering in space being a very costly and time-consuming endeavor that might only be profitable in a wartime situation or when targeting very high-value cargo.

[NOMAD]

Hmm, well it looks like my idea about the storm shelters in old space craft might work then.

I figured they would evolve into a high survival core unit in the center of the ship, basically anything really really important would sit in one of these.

I would think a human ship ( at this tech level) would need a space hazards shielding area ( hell you could even use an idea I saw on Defying gravity series of using the ships H20 supply as radiation shielding ( at 1.Kg per liter density is as good or better that lead if i'm correct )

So the fuel might not take up much space, but its containment would, and would not be pumped in but most likely arrive in sealed packages with their own on board containment that plugs directly into the ships power feed and have a back up battery supply in case of emergencies.

OK, so the fuel has to be very well armored and cared for as well as being close to the power plant and drives.

I think Arioch has a 10 to 1 mass/tonnage ratio for storage container to fuel ration, I believe humans would be closer to 20-1 given our limits of storage

I like the idea of cargo space as added wimple shielding though, thanks NOMAD

hey your welcome. Just think about using every square cm of space inside the ship to good use

The whole ship being built using a modular construction method was my original intention, that way the big shipyards would only have to do the hull and fitting out, with the smaller components and modules being shipped in from smaller manufacturing yards. It started from my original idea to decentralize ship production as much as possible, while speeding it up.

As to what real world designs I've been looking at, it would be the Blohm Voss Meko range, kind of a next step up from this level.[/quote]

Junk comments ring true here (just think about those massive container ships, alot of modals in a rigged hull). but just be careful with a decentralized construction system, I believe the Airbus 380 project is a good base to read up on as you see the difficulties and advantages of such a system.

see http://globalprojectstrategy.com/lessons/case.php?id=23 as an example

[Trantor]

but just be careful with a decentralized construction system,

7late7 anyone?

I believe the Airbus 380 project is a good base to read up on as you see the difficulties and advantages of such a system.

Solution is simple: Keep the Froggies out.
Really, they are a bunch of arrogant idiots. Just all-the-same-networking-breed from their "Ekkkollle-Pollitekkenikkes". Without any competence or common sense. V4/V5 (and some nasty other thingies) was their fault.

see http://globalprojectstrategy.com/lessons/case.php?id=23 as an example

*Yawn*. They know nothing. I could tell, but i signed several NDAs when i/we was/were one of the contractors @ Airbus. (After the problems surfaced. )

It is not that hard to bring two or more companies to work together. It has less to do with "culture" as the article suggests, but a little more with "common sense". Sadly these days this seems to be a rare thing. Dilbert is reality...

[DevilDalek]

Well, the idea is this, the hull would be built as solid as possible at the shipyard while the modules are shipped in, power and communication trunks would have many redundancies and be mounted on the inward of the main structural braces, thereby gaining additional protection from them.

Then the internals modules would be built in, living quarters, mess, rec area, etc. then Command and Control, Navigation and cargo / stores. (Im also thinking a small backup fusion power plant would be added) while these systems in the main hull are being tested, the Power/Drive plug will be fitted with its power plant and fold-space engines.

The main hull will then be fitted with secondary modules, such as shuttle bay, drone bays (I figure mans love of unmanned vehicles will continue into this era), sensor modules and gravity effect systems.

While this is continuing the maneuvering drive units will be attached and tested, then the Power/Drive plug will be slipped into place and tested. Once everything is shown to be working, the weapons modules and mission specific modules will be fitted and tested, then the ship will be fueled, crewed and stored up, ready for her maiden voyage.. after a quick lick of paint.

Well, I think I know enough to start modeling this in 3d, gonna be quick and dirty though.. and I have to keep it to Ariochs design principles for Terran ships!

[discord]

DD: well, you can do a wire frame 'hull' to build on and provide structural integrity....but i am personally inclined to the lego approach, just make the 'connectors'(basically airlocks with wiring/ventilation involved, just make'em standard, so everything is routed through it, actually that also creates redundancy, many different paths power/air/C&C/human transportation can take to get where you want it) and more structural integrity connections(probably four on each facing.) should work just fine.

the problem with most types of 'build hull, insert stuff' is that it is thinking like an apartment, insert furniture, and anyone who has helped someone move into an apartment knows what a copper plated bitch it can be to get that furniture inside, sure, modern ship building techniques do it this way, but that is because the hull is so bloody important to get right, not so much in space, hull keeps air inside, keeps it from falling apart(structural integrity) and keeps bad stuff out(micro meteorites, weapons fire), that last part is usually armor though, and if armor doubles as structural integrity, that leaves 'hull' with keeping air inside as it's only job, which is done on a module basis, so there is effectively no 'hull' with my design philosophy.

if it would be better is another question, would probably increase mass/performance and volume/performance slightly, but should be cheaper to build, and a lot faster(could probably build a new warship under a week, assuming all the parts are available) allowing decentralized construction to a higher degree, would also allow each captain to tailor his own ship, and the shipyard can go from building military ships to civilian and back in a matter of...well, however long it takes to clear out a slip...sure military ships need heavier armor and gun mounts, heavier armor with spray on armor is just more time in the same facility....with standard connectors, adding gun mount is not much different than adding a grappling claw for a salvage/rescue ship, or an external docking clamp, same work, move in place, connect, weld it in place, done.

in this case, the biggest 'advantage' is that terrans can build ships and stockpile components, life support and crew compartments will probably not change much with new tech, any 'military' modules suddenly phased out can be handed down to civilian ship construction, no loss in material.

bottom line, should work.

[DevilDalek]

Well, the way I looked at it was supply and repair over long distances is going to be easier if you don't take the modularization to far.
However, you do bring up a point, I think I am looking at this a little to much like surface ships, and should instead look at submarine designs.
Instead of slotting all the habitation and such straight into the hull, they can be built into several pressure hulls at separate yards which are then slotted into the main hull, with remaining spaces between them and the outer hull left for cargo, expansion, or anything the Captain wants to stuff in there really.
Question is, could I get away with each pressure hull having its own separate life support as well as internal compartmentalization for even more added survivability.

At the moment I am looking at one main pressure hull containing day to day ship systems, two habitation hulls, one for secondary systems such as workshops, labs, etc. and a dedicated smaller hull nestled between them for Command and Control.

Now these pressure hulls can be assembled and tested elsewhere and simply slotted inot the hull when they arrive.

[Trantor]

You can also modularize and prefabricate the hull.

Thinking of subs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Type_XXI_submarine