[Crossover Fanfiction, Complete] The Past Awakens

[Cthulhu]

Again, no idea if it follows the HALO lore, but that was certainly an interesting twist. Do you intend to write a sequel, maybe about the new God-Emperor of Loroi-kind?

[Urist]

Races in the galaxy: "We are free!"

Loroi: "Oh, I wouldn't say free. More like under new management."

Historians: *giggles* "I'm in danger!"

Again, no idea if it follows the HALO lore, but that was certainly an interesting twist. Do you intend to write a sequel, maybe about the new God-Emperor of Loroi-kind?

There's enough stuff that 'rhymes' with Halo canon that people familiar with that setting should get a few laughs, but this crossover has been 90% Outsider, 10% Halo. And I do have a rough outline for a sequel, but there are other projects that I'm working on first.

That said, the sequel likely will largely revolve around various factions arguing over just how soon Fifth Emperor Tempest will end up taking the throne. (And whether she actually wants to or not.)

[Cthulhu]

That said, the sequel likely will largely revolve around various factions arguing over just how soon Fifth Emperor Tempest will end up taking the throne. (And whether she actually wants to or not.)

Down with the Mizol Emperor! Free the means or reproduction!

There's enough stuff that 'rhymes' with Halo canon that people familiar with that setting should get a few laughs, but this crossover has been 90% Outsider, 10% Halo.

I'd argue that it was 80/20, but it was still entertaining enough, even without any knowledge of HALO.

And I do have a rough outline for a sequel, but there are other projects that I'm working on first.

Then I'm looking forward to it. Will that other project be another crossover?

[Urist]

Down with the Mizol Emperor! Free the means or reproduction!

Heh. Actually, that *is* one of the ideas I'm planning to play around with for the sequel: the cultural differences between the Union and Legion loroi. Both think the others are weird: the Legions look down on the Union for living on planets 'like primitives,' while the Union thinks the Legions are crazy for having their males fill military roles aboard the dreadstars (not *direct* combat roles, but still somewhat dangerous stuff like damage-control, engineering technicians, etc.).

Then I'm looking forward to it. Will that other project be another crossover?

Yes. I like writing crossovers when doing fanfiction - it helps provide more framework for establishing backgrounds, characters, plots, etc. Also, it lets me play with particular bits of humor that play off of unlikely interactions between the two settings (E.g. a ONI field agent/hitman falling in love with the alien he was once tasked to assassinate. ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence) in Halo is *at best* depicted as similar to the contemporary CIA and more often closer to the NKVD or Stasi; picturing one of their senior field agents developing close personal ties with a former enemy military leader is a funny contrast)

Plans for next crossoverShow

And for the next crossover I'm putting together, let's just say it's appropriate that you referenced the "God-Emperor of Loroi-kind"...

[Cthulhu]

Heh. Actually, that *is* one of the ideas I'm planning to play around with for the sequel: the cultural differences between the Union and Legion loroi. Both think the others are weird: the Legions look down on the Union for living on planets 'like primitives,' while the Union thinks the Legions are crazy for having their males fill military roles aboard the dreadstars (not *direct* combat roles, but still somewhat dangerous stuff like damage-control, engineering technicians, etc.).

Interesting idea indeed, there should be enough room not only for combat, but also politics and intrigue. I guess the next Emperor won't be chosen based on public debates.

Those breeding restrictions are quite weird, I'm going to add a twist on their deeper meaning to my fanfic.

Yes. I like writing crossovers when doing fanfiction - it helps provide more framework for establishing backgrounds, characters, plots, etc. Also, it lets me play with particular bits of humor that play off of unlikely interactions between the two settings (E.g. a ONI field agent/hitman falling in love with the alien he was once tasked to assassinate. ONI (Office of Naval Intelligence) in Halo is *at best* depicted as similar to the contemporary CIA and more often closer to the NKVD or Stasi; picturing one of their senior field agents developing close personal ties with a former enemy military leader is a funny contrast)

What if he has no other choice but to...

Plans for next crossoverShow

And for the next crossover I'm putting together, let's just say it's appropriate that you referenced the "God-Emperor of Loroi-kind"...

Oh, yes, now that's a universe I'm well-versed in.

SpoilerShow

Although, a Star Trek crossover would be interesting as well. Imagine Talon challenging Beryl to a Pon Farr duel?

[Urist]

What if he has no other choice but to...

Hehe, I haven't seen *that* particular Guillivraine picture before. Actually pretty close to what I imagine happened between Tempest and Pierre Jardin; especially given that she's like ~2-3 feet (~.7 meters) taller than him.

And the crossover plot I've put down does take place post-Cadia, so Yvraine actually does have her own role to play in the story... hmm, maybe I can write a scene with her and Guilliman giving Fireblade ideas contributing to the plot.

Oh, yes, now that's a universe I'm well-versed in.

Good; I'm actually much more familiar with 40k than Halo, myself. And 40k already *has* a much more extensive back-story with all sorts of fun ancient prophecies, devices, histories and characters that can be blended with Outsider... Suffice to say that there are plenty of discoveries to be made that both the Union and the Imperium (but mostly the Imperium) won't be very happy about!

Imagine Talon challenging Beryl to a Pon Farr duel?

I read that second URL as "Loroi Armok Time" at first; now *that* would be a particularly interesting crossover. Methinks the Dorfs would have a much harder time fighting off an invasion by *these* Elves!
But unfortunately I'm only barely familiar with Star Trek; pretty much only TOS-era. I couldn't do that setting properly.

[Cthulhu]

And the crossover plot I've put down does take place post-Cadia, so Yvraine actually does have her own role to play in the story... hmm, maybe I can write a scene with her and Guilliman giving Fireblade ideas contributing to the plot.

Nice

Good; I'm actually much more familiar with 40k than Halo, myself. And 40k already *has* a much more extensive back-story with all sorts of fun ancient prophecies, devices, histories and characters that can be blended with Outsider... Suffice to say that there are plenty of discoveries to be made that both the Union and the Imperium (but mostly the Imperium) won't be very happy about!

So, who is Alex going to be? Some runaway psyker dropout who got mail from the Emperor?

I read that second URL as "Loroi Armok Time" at first; now *that* would be a particularly interesting crossover. Methinks the Dorfs would have a much harder time fighting off an invasion by *these* Elves!
But unfortunately I'm only barely familiar with Star Trek; pretty much only TOS-era. I couldn't do that setting properly.

The Pon Farr duel is part of TOS, though.

[Urist]

So, who is Alex going to be? Some runaway psyker dropout who got mail from the Emperor?

SpoilerShow

Pretty close, actually. He's a psyker adopted by a Rogue Trader family who had been hidden away from the Black Ships so that the Family had their own pet Divination expert 'off the books'. Which ended up with him aboard the Rogue Trader exploration ship Bellarmine...

The Pon Farr duel is part of TOS, though.

True, but at least most of the other Trekkies I know are more familiar with TNG-era rather than TOS, so I worry that I'd end up writing something directly contradicted by a TNG episode that I'd never watched.

Also, I'm not quite sure how well an Outsider-Star Trek crossover would go in terms of melding the universes. The loroi would just be yet *another* "Humanoid but with odd-colored skin and maybe funny ears" alien from the Federation's perspective, to add to the pile of hundreds more. There just wouldn't be much of the "Wow, weird aliens" vibe to play with. And since the Federation is *used* to working with and accommodating aliens, there also wouldn't be many opportunities for the sort of cultural confusion that makes for entertaining stories.

SpoilerShow

By contrast, having people from the Imperium of Man and the Loroi Union have to learn to work together leads to *far* more hilarious situations.
"Listel, inform the xenos witch that I am no longer speaking to her."
<Beryl, tell the obnoxious alien that I am *glad* he is not talking to me.>
Beryl:

And it also lets me play around and put some of the darker actions of the Union in a different light. After all, in Outsider the Union are a rather scary stratocracy who have pushed two different alien species to the brink of extinction and inspire fear and caution in many other aliens. But compared to the Imperium of Man, they're incredibly soft and friendly. "What, you left some of these Mannadi and Tithric *alive*? What kind of lazy half-finished Exterminatus was *that*?"

[Cthulhu]

Yes, you are right, in Star Trek, the Loroi would be just another rubber-forehead-alien-of-the-week. And the Federation would actually try to understand and even befriend the bugs. Yuck.

Oh, rogue trader. A catch-all setting which can be bent to fit pretty much any RPG/fanfic. Can't say that it is unique, but it's your fanfic. I've seen a couple good things emerging from this trope.

Anyway, now that I think about it, a crossover with WH40 might not work that well. The main issue may be scaling. For the Imperium of Man, the whole Loroi/Umiak war would be merely a skirmish. Then, introducing Chaos will certainly clash with the Loroi version of psionics. I can't even imagine what kind of abominable God they'll create. Most of the other settings will also be incompatible. Hyperspace vs. Warp, tech-trough-belief vs. tech-trough-science, grimdark vs. space-elf-harem, and so on.

[Tamri]

For me personally, the problem with Warhammer is that it is a hopeless grimmdark, in which a happy ending is not provided for in principle. No matter how great or heroic your efforts, in the end everything you create will die an ugly, scary and painful death. If you're lucky, because Warhammer is one of the universes that clearly demonstrates that death is DELIVERANCE, a mercy that few receive.

In addition, any paranormal force, from psionics to magic, “connects” poorly to it - the conceptual basis of this universe is built on the fact that all this good will somehow come into contact with the warp, and therefore with demons. And where the demons are, there are Four, and you won’t have to wait long for trouble. And even if you shield yourself tightly from the warp, huddle in the deepest corner of the Galaxy, just to try to live for tens of thousands of years without all this “fun” - no one will guarantee that the colony you founded is not located on some ancient cache of autonomous weapons of some kind the Ancients, who right now will decide to crawl out of the warehouse and arrange Armageddon for everyone.

[Urist]

Anyway, now that I think about it, a crossover with WH40 might not work that well. The main issue may be scaling. For the Imperium of Man, the whole Loroi/Umiak war would be merely a skirmish. Then, introducing Chaos will certainly clash with the Loroi version of psionics. I can't even imagine what kind of abominable God they'll create. Most of the other settings will also be incompatible. Hyperspace vs. Warp, tech-trough-belief vs. tech-trough-science, grimdark vs. space-elf-harem, and so on.

Pretty much every point you bring up there is actually one that I'm playing with deliberately

SpoilerShow

For example, the main reason why this Alex is from a RT dynasty (adopted into a cadet branch; he's not in line for the Warrant of Trade itself and has no significant power/authority) is because it provides a good reason why the scaling problem gets diminished. He doesn't have access to the full power of an Imperial fleet, and his early goal after 'meeting' the loroi is to establish trade between them and his House. Rather more one-sided than the diplomatic agreements that Outsider-canon Alex and the TCA would have aimed for, but still not outright war/conquest/xenocide.

And the way that loroi psionics and Warp magic/psyker-powers interact is actually one of the central 'threads' of the story. Suffice to say that both sides get confused, neither one works in quite the same way, and lots of very powerful people on each 'side' get interested in what the *other* side can do. And discovering *why* they both work so differently is the main Macguffin of the story!

And 40k does have technologies that can allow FTL travel without requiring psykers (heck, many Imperial craft do that; it just is far slower than having a Navigator aboard and so essentially no ships using that technique ever really get front-and-center focus in 40k novels. But yes, quite a few tech-priests are going to be mad at what the loroi gallen can do, and quite a few gallen are going to be confused by how the tech-priests do things

For me personally, the problem with Warhammer is that it is a hopeless grimmdark, in which a happy ending is not provided for in principle.

...In addition, any paranormal force, from psionics to magic, “connects” poorly to it - the conceptual basis of this universe is built on the fact that all this good will somehow come into contact with the warp, and therefore with demons.

...the colony you founded is not located on some ancient cache of autonomous weapons of some kind the Ancients, who right now will decide to crawl out of the warehouse and arrange Armageddon for everyone.

Admittedly, I'm not going to write a *properly* grimdark story.

SpoilerShow

Every character involved from Alex to the Emperor... both of them ends up having to make choices they find repulsive or distasteful, but they have some positive things to show for their efforts as well. And while they still live in a scary universe where (almost) everything is trying to kill them, there's at least reason to hope that the future might improve... eventually.

Likewise, the interaction between loroi psionics and the warp will be explored in detail.

And don't worry, the loroi Sister Worlds are placed *exactly* on top of an 'ancient cache of autonomous weapons' left by the Ancients. Them finding out exactly what that implies will be especially !!fun!! for all involved!

In any event, writing The Past Awakens took ~4 months, so assuming things go as well I should have this next story ready around ~November.

[Tamri]

I'm not saying that local happy endings are impossible (after all, the entire Warhammer mythology is built on local happy endings), but the global imperative of the canon is that things get exceptionally WORSE as time goes on.

The entire Warhammer universe is literally one continuous twist of Stine, elevated to the absolute. "All your efforts are ultimately in vain at best. At worst, you choose between bad, but now, and terrible, but in future."

The bad guys will see your end, deal with it. And they will have a lot of fun with it.

I’m not saying that there aren’t any good works on Warhammer, I just can’t get it out of my head that in the long run a spoon is a lie.

And in principle, I don’t understand people who drag this determinism into other settings, where everything is not so fundamentally bad, or even vice versa: “look, I brought a fun setting to Warhammer!”

No, fool, you turned a good and kind setting into an island of good life in a boundless swamp of shit, which will definitely drown in this swamp one day.

[Urist]

-quote-

I would argue that Warhammer 40k is largely distinct from Warhammer Fantasy in that 40k isn't precisely "Everything gets worse in the end." Rather, that 40k operates on the "Monkey's Paw" rules where characters/factions often get what they want... only for it to be twisted by fate (and laughing Gods) so that they end up paying a price which they may not consider worth the reward.

Oh, you Eldar want to experience everything that you can in life? Okay, but you've just created a new Dark God who will permanently kill you in a very painful way now when you die.

Oh, humanity wants to expand across the stars using this cool new Warp Drive they just discovered? Okay, but the very convenience of it means that they soon become dependent on it, so when it is disrupted by the birth of Slaanesh the entire Human domain gets cut into millions of now-independent planets... and most of them die horrible deaths.

Oh, the Emperor wants to unify Mankind? Okay, but by doing so he makes himself such an icon that a religion worshipping him is created which will ultimately undo almost everything he's done (and cripple him, personally).

Oh, Guilliman wants to divide the Legions so that they can never again muster a force strong enough to cut the Imperium in half? Okay, but now the Space Marines are so split up into small units that they can't muster enough concentrated strength to permanently drive off most of the threats invading the Imperium.

Oh, Yvraine has resurrected Guilliman and now the finest Administrator that Humanity has ever produced has returned to govern the Imperium? Okay, but the Eye of Chaos breaks open and cuts off half of the Imperium from Sol.

Oh, you Necrontyr want to live forever? Okay, but you forfeit your souls and (for almost all of them) personality.

Oh, you Orks want to have fun and fight forever? Okay, but... well actually 40k is a great place to live if you're an Ork.

And all that. Some of those situations still ended up net 'positives,' but at high cost. So I would argue that while 40k is often generalized as "Everything always gets worse," it's actually somewhat more complex than that.

Anyways, that concludes my nerd rant about why a grim-dark setting made up in the 1980s to sell overpriced wargaming miniatures is *totally* a deep and nuanced story.

[Tamri]

I would say that globally there are only two forces that will eventually get their way: Chaos and the Tyranids. With a very big assumption, orcs and necrons - the former seem to have some kind of scaling to the current mess, like the harder you hit this mushroom, the stronger it becomes and the more painful it snaps, and the latter, with full mobilization, have enough strength to break into Chaos, and the Tyranids, simultaneously fighting the orcs.

Both Chaos and Swarm are damn assimilators, whose volume of resources ALREADY exceeds the capabilities of all parties combined, in addition, both of them are excellent at finding their victims at interstellar distances.

In fact, the only thing that saves the Galaxy now is that Chaos is organically incapable of placing all the pawns on the board at once, and even moving around the board without interfering with one or the other, and the Tyranid Swarm simply has not yet reached the Galaxy. Those “irresistible hordes” of zerg that humans and eldar fight off with great difficulty are not even the vanguard, but its most advanced detachments.

Considering that the scale of the Swarm allows him to fight on a galactic scale, when this shit finally reaches everyone, it will become very, very funny. And this will happen quite soon, on Warhammer scale.

The problem is that neither of these sides are ones you'll want to play as in first person.

[Tamri]

A funny idea is that you can try to write a funny sketch about the remnants of the united troops of humans, Eldar and Tau, originally from, say, the 45th millennium, which a rolling wave of problems forced them to first unite, and then for a long time and bloodily retreat to the edge of the galaxy, literally burning trillions of intelligent and entire star clusters.

Who eventually realized that the only way to survive it's to crack the playing board to their opponents head, and developed a way to escape to another universe so that no one could follow them.

And now the “pathetic remnants of the refugee fleet” (coalitions of three super-species with a bunch of vassals, who have been fighting for five millennia against truly invincible enemies at galactic distances) fall out in the middle of the conventional conflict between the conditionals Union and Hierarchy and, under the shoked looks of the combatants, scratch their heads, trying to understand what is going on around them...

This is probably the only good ending in the existing introductions that I can come up with, if we don’t use on an intergalactic scale grand pianos, of course.

[Cthulhu]

As expected, any Warhammer-related thread will inevitably turn into a battlefield.

[Snoofman]

I finally got around to it and have finished reading.

What I liked:
I expected this story to be a typical crossover in which the characters play out the roles of the original storyline's characters. But you gave the reader a pleasant surprise by making a new AU Crossover story altogether while paying tribute to both Outsider and Halo lore with a believable merging. The disruption of slipspace as a result of the Halo Array's firing was brilliant. I also liked the small tributes you did occasionally like the brief mention of the Spartans and Cortana. It might have been nice to see the Loroi interact more with them.

Talon's and Spiral's mild obsession with getting their intimate time with Alex never let up. It was humorous how they entertained the idea while never getting a chance to actually do it with him. Not during the narrative at least. But off screen- well... we can always imagine.

While the heroes of the story survive the final battle against the Soia Security, I liked how they survive not in complete triumph or in one piece, but battered and bruised and in need of recovery. It makes warfare in this universe credible and makes the reader aware of the hardships of combat.


What I didn't like:
Mind you this comes from someone with an autistic attention span, so take it with a grain of salt. There was plenty of action. Lots of it actually. For me personally it was a little hard to follow when there was too much action. Some people love action packed stories. But it might drown out other aspects of the story. I myself have been reflecting on my own writing and notice that I might have packed lots of details that maybe were not necessary.

The chapters were also quite long. Not that long chapters are a bad thing. And mind you this comes from someone who has also written very long chapters. For someone who wrestles with a short attention span or may not be intrigued by the same things you the writer find fascinating, it takes some effort to get through a long chapter.

It was also challenging to keep track of where the characters were at certain times. One moment the characters are on the Halo Ringworld. The next they are on a wild goose chase in slipspace. Another way this story might have gone was to be divided into different installments. For example, the first installment taking place on the Halo Array and another in slipspace or on one of the Dreadstars. But it's your story and that is where you drew your cast.



But generally I liked it. This was very well written. I dare say it lives up to the level of the Official Halo novels. Thank you for sharing!

[Urist]

[...]
But generally I liked it. This was very well written. I dare say it lives up to the level of the Official Halo novels. Thank you for sharing!

I'm very glad that you enjoyed it! Your own writings for this forum were a significant inspiration for me.

And yes, those "Character(s) from Universe A just go through the exact plot of Universe B" crossovers have never been interesting to me. They're the equivalent of the 'fanfictions' which are just rote novelizations of a movie/game/TV show, adding nothing to the story or setting. On the flip side, I find it especially fun to think about "what parts from Universe A could mesh with Universe B" things, such as that "You know, Covenant Engineers actually kinda look like something the Soia would have made."

Talon is probably my favorite Outsider character (she and Spiral are essentially the only ones we've ever seen cracking a joke), so I had to write a happy ending for her! It also let me play around with my ideas on one could actually get a pseudo-'romance' between a loroi (who don't pursue romantic relationships lasting longer than a day or so) and a human. It ends up being something more like "close-friends-with-benefits" than a normal human romance, but feels more in-character for the loroi.

As for the story being a bit action-heavy, I tried to blend Outsider (very talky, relatively little action, lots of worldbuilding) with Halo (...it's a First Person Shooter game. Surprisingly much worldbuilding, but still almost entirely action) and go for something in between those two. My own tastes run closer to an Outsider-level worldbuilding focus, but fanfiction is a good place to practice writing that which doesn't come naturally, so action it is.

And I think one can rather safely assume that people who follow a 23-year-old, rarely-updating webcomic are *probably* not people with an especially short attention span, and doubly so for those who hang around the forums. Thanks for the feedback on the scene-transitions; in future writings I'll experiment with better introductory framing before each shift.

Anyways, I just hope that other authors feel inspired to write their own Outsider fanfictions - given that there's about a dozen stories on this forum each of which is longer than the webcomic proper, fanfictions seem to be a very large fraction of the 'value' of Outsider (to me).

[Snoofman]

[...]
But generally I liked it. This was very well written. I dare say it lives up to the level of the Official Halo novels. Thank you for sharing!

I'm very glad that you enjoyed it! Your own writings for this forum were a significant inspiration for me.

...

Anyways, I just hope that other authors feel inspired to write their own Outsider fanfictions - given that there's about a dozen stories on this forum each of which is longer than the webcomic proper, fanfictions seem to be a very large fraction of the 'value' of Outsider (to me).

Heh heh! I am flattered.

I hope so too. Outsider is in and of itself a fantastic fictional world. There is so much you can do with it which gave me the inspiration to write as well. As for brining 'value' to Outside, the fanfic forum certainly draws a lot of views. That's for sure.

So write on (it's a pun)!

[Hālian]

I demand a sequel!