Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

[SaintofM]

A sleep deprived question that popped up: Facial recognition.

Humans evolved the ability to recognize faces. However its a more recent evolutionary adaptation so its not as fine tuned. Because of this, we can see faces and/or racial expressions in alot of things from the taillights of cars, or the expressions of animals, to the shapes of formations, to ttwo dots anda
crescent on a yellow disk. This is assuming modern humans evolved the good ol' fashion way. Geven the Blue's are A. far older species (long life span or not) and B Heavily modified from a creator race, how would this develop in them?

[Arioch]

Humans evolved the ability to recognize faces. However its a more recent evolutionary adaptation so its not as fine tuned. Because of this, we can see faces and/or racial expressions in alot of things from the taillights of cars, or the expressions of animals, to the shapes of formations, to ttwo dots anda
crescent on a yellow disk. This is assuming modern humans evolved the good ol' fashion way. Geven the Blue's are A. far older species (long life span or not) and B Heavily modified from a creator race, how would this develop in them?

Facial recognition isn't a recent adaptation, nor is it unique to humans; chimpanzees and gorillas have been demonstrated to be able to identify individuals from photos of faces (both their own species and humans, in many cases). Pattern recognition is an essential adaptation, and it's a natural side effect of a pattern recognition mechanism that it will sometimes see patterns that aren't really there. This can be seen in the natural world in insects that respond to sexual signals from flowers which don't very closely resemble the real thing, and in the laboratory where animals will respond to some fairly crude simulacra of patterns which they are adapted to recognize. Even software systems sometimes generate false positives on pattern matching algorithms. So I would assume that aliens would also see patterns important to them in all kinds of objects, in a similar way that we do.

The Loroi certainly can, since I've shown at least a few examples of their artwork.

command island floor crest 09.jpg (141.68 KiB) Viewed 16555 times

[Urist]

Out of curiosity, is that cool-looking crest a Union-wide symbol (like a national seal), or is it specifically related to Tempest (like the individual ship badges/crests that many warships have)? I would suspect the latter, given that 2-3 of the images around the perimeter seem to portray those Bedein/Fury spirits seen on Page 50. Are there any interesting particular meanings for the various scenes shown in that crest?

[Arioch]

Out of curiosity, is that cool-looking crest a Union-wide symbol (like a national seal), or is it specifically related to Tempest (like the individual ship badges/crests that many warships have)? I would suspect the latter, given that 2-3 of the images around the perimeter seem to portray those Bedein/Fury spirits seen on Page 50. Are there any interesting particular meanings for the various scenes shown in that crest?

That crest is specific to Tempest, and the vignettes are scenes from the legends concerning the ship's namesake (as is the mural).

[SaintofM]

Humans have had various ritual celebrations throughout history to celebrate a child becoming an adult, or a certain age milestone (first communion, Bar Mitzvah, Sweet 16, Turning 18, Quinceanera, and so on). I believe you mentioned some of the Loroi ones, but what about the other aliens that you can mention (either due to having them written down and not spoiler)

[Arioch]

Humans have had various ritual celebrations throughout history to celebrate a child becoming an adult, or a certain age milestone (first communion, Bar Mitzvah, Sweet 16, Turning 18, Quinceanera, and so on). I believe you mentioned some of the Loroi ones, but what about the other aliens that you can mention (either due to having them written down and not spoiler)

I don't have much detail about these kinds of ceremonies, though I'm sure the various alien cultures will have a wide variety. The rite of passage is, I think, kind of a standard hunter-gatherer ceremony, and is probably most strongly retained in martial cultures... so I think we can expect the Delrias in particular to have some unusual (and probably brutal) coming of age rituals.

The Neridi are hermaphroditic and have three genders, which they transition between as they age... so they have associated rituals with a lot of social impact, as changing genders means substantially changing one's role in their society, and often one's name and profession. Though the details of these ceremonies will vary, as the Neridi have three very distinct cultural groups (not related to the number of genders). I don't have much to share on this at present but I may have more in the future.

[Urist]

While we're on the topic of ceremonies, does the Loroi Union have any equivalent to a coronation ceremony? As in (at least in peace-time) is there an event along the lines of "Okay, here's the new Azerein." visible to the public? Or is it a more subdued affair where only their equivalent of press-releases mention the new leadership.

[Arioch]

While we're on the topic of ceremonies, does the Loroi Union have any equivalent to a coronation ceremony? As in (at least in peace-time) is there an event along the lines of "Okay, here's the new Azerein." visible to the public? Or is it a more subdued affair where only their equivalent of press-releases mention the new leadership.

The Loroi do have short formal ceremonies for warriors who receive new titles, but even for the Azerein these are usually for a small military audience and have much more in common with an appointment or promotion of a high-ranking admiral or cabinet minister than with a coronation. The title of Azerein is modern and has only been awarded four times.

There is usually a formal statement released to the public. The office of Azerein doesn't usually have much impact on the daily lives of Loroi, as she hasn't got anything to do with local government, but of course Loroi citizens take a keen interest in the prosecution of the war. Greywind (unusually) released a recorded speech to the public, since she has the oration skills to do so, but there was desperate fighting going on at the time with the Umiak (not to mention a brief internal struggle not long after), so there was no time for further ceremony.

[Cthulhu]

1. What would be a common alcoholic beverage among the Loroi? Or any other drink aside from noillir they might consume for leisure?
2. If not drinks, are there any recreational drugs which are allowed to be consumed while off-duty?
3. I'd guess that noillir is a more recent invention? Were/are there any older equivalents from the sister worlds, especially Deinar?
4. If Loroi warriors bet on something, what would be the usual wager? Favorable shifts? Some kind of desserts or extra/better rations? Previously mentioned drinks or recreational drugs? Money/scrip?

[Arioch]

Loroi do not consume alcohol or any other intoxicating beverages or recreational drugs, at least not in public. It is strictly against warrior regulations and is not considered socially acceptable. There are no Loroi bars. The most commonly used drugs by Loroi are sedatives to help them relax or sleep, but these are usually administered by medical staff.

Because of the invasive nature of telepathy, public intoxication is considered a fairly serious public offense, akin to drunk driving.

Some Loroi do use various kinds of illicit drugs in private, but this is not something I'll be covering in the story.

In addition to water, Loroi consume a variety of teas and juices. Essentially, for every kind of edible plant there is at least one associated brew or juice. The Soia-liron plants were available to most Loroi on Deinar from the earliest times.

Misesa (grain) is brewed into a variety of beer-like beverages. They are not alcoholic (there is no yeast to ferment the sugars).
Nagen (evergreen) leaves are made into a bitter tea that almost nobody likes except Barsam, though it does have mildly stimulant properties in Soia-liron species.
Sibreg (fruit) juice is bland and orange-colored. Fluid from the leaves is sometimes distilled and used for medicinal purposes, but rarely drunk as it has an astringent flavor.
Bizal (tuber) can be made into a chowdery soup which is sometimes drunk like a beverage.
Noillir is brewed from a Derro (Neridi) native fungoid, and so it wasn't available to Loroi before alien contact.

4. If Loroi warriors bet on something, what would be the usual wager? Favorable shifts? Some kind of desserts or extra/better rations? Previously mentioned drinks or recreational drugs? Money/scrip?

They might wager currency or property, or any privileges or duties that might be transferable. Ashrain and Moonglow wagered priority in the resupply queue.

[Cthulhu]

There are no Loroi bars.

Where do the Loroi meet up instead?

Some Loroi do use various kinds of illicit drugs in private, but this is not something I'll be covering in the story.

Were there any substances which could've been used as drugs on Deinar? Or even alcohol, if there was no yeast? After all, mild alcoholic beverages were also a means of preserving drinking water, so how did the Loroi substitute for that?

They might wager currency or property, or any privileges or duties that might be transferable. Ashrain and Moonglow wagered priority in the resupply queue.

I was thinking more along the lines of a low-level, casual wager.

Also, if a Captain would want to reward her crew for any kind of reason, what would she usually do? Order the cook to make a tasty meal with fresh ingredients? Such things would be rather rare on the ships.

[Said2k]

There are no Loroi bars.

Loroi seems to have a very strict culture, probably like those countries in the middle-east.

[Arioch]

There are no Loroi bars.

Where do the Loroi meet up instead?

If you mean males and females, they don't. Mating is strictly done through official matchmaking.

If you mean friends or colleagues, they can meet up at all the same kinds of places that humans do... mess halls or restaurants, marketplaces, facilities for leisure or hobby activities, etc.

Were there any substances which could've been used as drugs on Deinar? Or even alcohol, if there was no yeast? After all, mild alcoholic beverages were also a means of preserving drinking water, so how did the Loroi substitute for that?

I think that the accident of alcohol being a waste product of Earth microorganisms was key not only to its manufacture but also the discovery of its effects in the first place. Without such microorganisms, I think it would take some fairly sophisticated chemical know-how to synthesize alcohol, and there would no reason to develop such techniques if you didn't somehow already have a way of knowing what its effects would be.

However, I think it's very unlikely that alcohol would have the same effect on Soia-liron organisms that it has on Earth organisms, so even if there is an easy inorganic way to synthesize it, I don't think that would have done the Loroi any good. Deinar had very primitive native life prior to being terraformed, so there were not a lot of easy sources of the complex chemicals needed to make drugs in a primitive society. I think that all of Earth's traditional drugs are derived from plant or animal sources. The early Deinar Loroi just didn't have many options in this regard.

Modern chemistry and access to a wide variety of complex alien biomes has provided access to a wide variety of pharmeceuticals, but in most polite Loroi society casual drug use is still not socially acceptable.

I think that the degree to which early humans consumed alcohol instead of water is often exaggerated. Wine could be stored for long periods but was expensive and time consuming to make; I don't think it could even come close to covering a typical person's needed daily water intake. In certain times and places there was a lot of beer consumed, which could be made more quickly and cheaply, but early beer didn't store well at all, usually spoiling after just a few days. What made the beer safer (if it was safer) would have been the process of boiling the water to make it, and you can do that with water or any other brewed drink like tea if you're worried about disease organisms. Other common preservation methods like drying foods, or adding salt or sugar can be also used to deter the growth of microorganisms for longer-term storage.

This wasn't a big problem on Deinar or Taben, as Loroi are relatively resistent to disease, and they had the advantage of being aliens living on primitive worlds; the unsophisticated microorganisms would have have very little idea of what to do with an alien biochemistry. Perrein's complex ecosystem would have presented a much more serious problem with dangerous pathogens, and would have required more careful countermeasures. Perrein's biome would have also presented more opportunities for discovery of and production of various pharmaceuticals, so this is probably from where the earliest drugs were introduced to Loroi society.

Also, if a Captain would want to reward her crew for any kind of reason, what would she usually do? Order the cook to make a tasty meal with fresh ingredients? Such things would be rather rare on the ships.

Special rations, or gifts of goods, or special privileges (like extended leave) might be granted, but they would have to be available in the first place. But I think most military Loroi would be offended at the notion that warriors need to be bribed with gifts or money. Many warriors are not even paid a salary. Duty is a very important concept to them. "We are not mercenaries," they would say.

There are no Loroi bars.

Loroi seems to have a very strict culture, probably like those countries in the middle-east.

I think alcohol is at least frowned upon when not outright illegal in many or most Muslim countries. And it was illegal in many places in the US (particularly in more religious communities in the South) even before Prohibition. And so yes, even humans can get by without alcohol.

[Cthulhu]

If you mean males and females, they don't. Mating is strictly done through official matchmaking.

Yes, I know that.

If you mean friends or colleagues, they can meet up at all the same kinds of places that humans do... mess halls or restaurants, marketplaces, facilities for leisure or hobby activities, etc.

And where would've the warriors of old gather? A tea house, perhaps?

I think that the accident of alcohol being a waste product of Earth microorganisms was key not only to its manufacture but also the discovery of its effects in the first place. Without such microorganisms, I think it would take some fairly sophisticated chemical know-how to synthesize alcohol, and there would no reason to develop such techniques if you didn't somehow already have a way of knowing what its effects would be.

However, I think it's very unlikely that alcohol would have the same effect on Soia-liron organisms that it has on Earth organisms, so even if there is an easy inorganic way to synthesize it, I don't think that would have done the Loroi any good. Deinar had very primitive native life prior to being terraformed, so there were not a lot of easy sources of the complex chemicals needed to make drugs in a primitive society. I think that all of Earth's traditional drugs are derived from plant or animal sources. The early Deinar Loroi just didn't have many options in this regard.

Modern chemistry and access to a wide variety of complex alien biomes has provided access to a wide variety of pharmeceuticals, but in most polite Loroi society casual drug use is still not socially acceptable.

I think that the degree to which early humans consumed alcohol instead of water is often exaggerated. Wine could be stored for long periods but was expensive and time consuming to make; I don't think it could even come close to covering a typical person's needed daily water intake. In certain times and places there was a lot of beer consumed, which could be made more quickly and cheaply, but early beer didn't store well at all, usually spoiling after just a few days. What made the beer safer (if it was safer) would have been the process of boiling the water to make it, and you can do that with water or any other brewed drink like tea if you're worried about disease organisms. Other common preservation methods like drying foods, or adding salt or sugar can be also used to deter the growth of microorganisms for longer-term storage.

This wasn't a big problem on Deinar or Taben, as Loroi are relatively resistent to disease, and they had the advantage of being aliens living on primitive worlds; the unsophisticated microorganisms would have have very little idea of what to do with an alien biochemistry. Perrein's complex ecosystem would have presented a much more serious problem with dangerous pathogens, and would have required more careful countermeasures. Perrein's biome would have also presented more opportunities for discovery of and production of various pharmaceuticals, so this is probably from where the earliest drugs were introduced to Loroi society.

Thanks for the detailed answer!

Now that I think about it, the Loroi should've brought some fairly sophisticated microorganisms with them, namely their own microbiome, especially the gut bacteria. Were those also engineered, or do the Loroi even need them?

[Urist]

On the topic of "Rewards to ship crews" would there be any sort of ship-level *awards* that a Captain could give? I know it's been mentioned before that loroi don't go in for individual medals the way human militaries do, but group citations are a thing. Are there any equivalents at the ship-section level?

E.g. "For exemplary gunnery performance over this last deployment, the crew manning the fire directors for the Pulse Cannons aboard Black Razor are singled out for praise by their Captain." That's not a 'gift' or 'money,' but rather a highlight that "Hey, you particular group of warriors did an *especially* good job pursuing your duty." Are there recognitions similar to that which fall under the authority of individual ship captains to award?

[Arioch]

And where would've the warriors of old gather? A tea house, perhaps?

Knights hanging out in taverns is more a staple of RPG's and fantasy fiction than history, as far as I'm aware. Real medieval knights and men-at-arms were comparatively important and well-off people, who spent time in their own manors attended by servants or visiting other lords or knights in their halls... most of them didn't hob-knob with the local alehouse riff-raff.

Loroi warriors didn't lead lavish lifestyles like the European aristocracy, but they also didn't spend a lot of time hanging out with non-warriors; they were their own kind of aristocracy. If they weren't on campaign, they mostly spent time in their own halls that were well attended and stocked with whatever they needed.

Now that I think about it, the Loroi should've brought some fairly sophisticated microorganisms with them, namely their own microbiome, especially the gut bacteria. Were those also engineered, or do the Loroi even need them?

Soia-liron organisms don't have symbiotic microorganisms or other wacky relics of co-evolution like separate mitochondrial genomes. If you're going to introduce engineered organisms to alien worlds, ideally they should be as self-sufficient as possible; if you depend on an inter-dependent ecosystem, the whole thing could collapse if one important species can't handle the new environment. Any functions that an organism needs is integrated into its genome, designed to be as adaptable as is practical.

The Loroi refugees didn't come from a planet, they came from spacecraft in which they had most likely lived their entire lives in a 100% controlled environment.

The introduced Soia-liron species were invasive and out-competed many native organsisms where such existed in the same niche, but the number of introduced species was finite and they were mostly introduced on terraformed worlds with relatively little advanced native life. This contrasts with the pre-Dreiman colonization efforts of the Fenrias, who introduced gene-tailored versions of organsims from Kabel: these did come with all kinds of unintentional hitchikers and symbionts that typically wrought ecological catastrophe on the native ecosystems.

On the topic of "Rewards to ship crews" would there be any sort of ship-level *awards* that a Captain could give? I know it's been mentioned before that loroi don't go in for individual medals the way human militaries do, but group citations are a thing. Are there any equivalents at the ship-section level?

E.g. "For exemplary gunnery performance over this last deployment, the crew manning the fire directors for the Pulse Cannons aboard Black Razor are singled out for praise by their Captain." That's not a 'gift' or 'money,' but rather a highlight that "Hey, you particular group of warriors did an *especially* good job pursuing your duty." Are there recognitions similar to that which fall under the authority of individual ship captains to award?

Commanding officers can issue commendations which go on the warrior's record; they just aren't worn as any kind of medal. But such commendations are usually given to a unit rather than an individual. The main form of recognition to an individual is a promotion.

[Cthulhu]

Knights hanging out in taverns is more a staple of RPG's and fantasy fiction than history, as far as I'm aware. Real medieval knights and men-at-arms were comparatively important and well-off people, who spent time in their own manors attended by servants or visiting other lords or knights in their halls... most of them didn't hob-knob with the local alehouse riff-raff.

Even taverns and inns are more of an RPG staple, they weren't nearly as widespread as the fantasy novels make them out to be.

Loroi warriors didn't lead lavish lifestyles like the European aristocracy, but they also didn't spend a lot of time hanging out with non-warriors; they were their own kind of aristocracy. If they weren't on campaign, they mostly spent time in their own halls that were well attended and stocked with whatever they needed.

Okay, good to know. Currently, I'm just collecting a few ideas for another fanfic, set in the "good old days".

Soia-liron organisms don't have symbiotic microorganisms or other wacky relics of co-evolution like separate mitochondrial genomes. If you're going to introduce engineered organisms to alien worlds, ideally they should be as self-sufficient as possible; if you depend on an inter-dependent ecosystem, the whole thing could collapse if one important species can't handle the new environment. Any functions that an organism needs is integrated into its genome, designed to be as adaptable as is practical.

I can work with that, in fact, this is just perfect.

A last question, how is the Loroi reaction time? Is it quicker than the human one?

[Arioch]

Even taverns and inns are more of an RPG staple, they weren't nearly as widespread as the fantasy novels make them out to be.

I think they existed in most towns, but in many cases it was just somebody's house.

A last question, how is the Loroi reaction time? Is it quicker than the human one?

It's not significantly different from the human norm. In the GURPS workups I have Loroi with +1 HT (meaning they're a little bit more robust and resistant to disease) but otherwise the same as humans baseline attributes-wise.

[SaintofM]

On how well the Loroi could handle their liquor or any other drug I suspect would be a combination of factors, namely size and metabolism. Elephants are one of the biggest animals to ever live, and they are light weights. Consider that liquored is technically a poison, I would wonder how they could handle most toxins. This doesn't even start if they maybe allergic to it. People that are allergic to hops can't have beer for instance.

I guess the next question would be what kind of drunks would the Loroi and their allies are? The "I love You," The "I hate You, or the" HAWWWWYYY! C'Mere!" guys.

[Cthulhu]

I guess the next question would be what kind of drunks would the Loroi and their allies are? The "I love You," The "I hate You, or the" HAWWWWYYY! C'Mere!" guys.

More like the telekinetically splattering your brains all over the place kind of drunks.