Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

[Urist]

Question: what do loroi think of scars?

Quite a few 'warrior cultures' here on Earth have considered them something of a fashion statement (perhaps most famously the German Prussians), but perhaps the loroi see things differently. The only two loroi I can think of with scars include Fireblade (who evidently had hers removed in the intervening years since her Academy training) and possibly Clearbrook's captain (unless that's just some strange facial tattoo?), who still has hers.

[Arioch]

Question: what do loroi think of scars?

Quite a few 'warrior cultures' here on Earth have considered them something of a fashion statement (perhaps most famously the German Prussians), but perhaps the loroi see things differently. The only two loroi I can think of with scars include Fireblade (who evidently had hers removed in the intervening years since her Academy training) and possibly Clearbrook's captain (unless that's just some strange facial tattoo?), who still has hers.

It depends on the subculture and personal aesthetic taste. Loroi can be vain about their personal appearance, which can go either way in terms of repairing scars or leaving them. If you see a Loroi with a scar it's usually either because (in descending order of likelihood:

1. she thinks it looks stylish
2. she wants to give the impression that's she's too cool to care about her appearance
3. she's actually too cool to care about her appearance

There are a few training schools that traditionally use edged weapons (including some Soroin schools in Beleri (Taben) and in northern Mestirot (Deinar), and this is a source of some scarring similar to the Prussian fencers you mentioned. Though I do wonder how many of those Prussians would have kept their particularly ugly scars if they'd had the technology to repair them. Badge of honor, sure, but warriors can be extremely vain creatures.

There are still tribal groups that practice ritual scarring, but you won't see too many of those in the fleet.

Fireblade's scar was healed as part of the procedure to repair her eye; it wasn't something cosmetic that she specifically had done.

[Bamax]

Don't know if I will get a definitive answer on this, and probably for legitimate reasons from an author's POV, but out of curiousity, which of the Loroi you have made is hottest or which one are you most attracted to?

Beauty is not an opinion or a subjective quality despite what people say (artists, including you actually know this), but attraction to one over another is always based on personal opinion and or desire.

I will go first.

For me it's Spiral. She has playful, youthful energy about her and at least for my tastes, is hotter than her BFF co-pilot. She is not stern like Stillstorm nor is she an ice queen like Fireblade. Beryl is a nerd's dream, but her white hair is a turn off because it screams old even though she is'nt by Loroi standards. Everybody knows Tempo is hot, but I just love Spiral because she tells it like it is to comedic effect and damn the consequences.

In real life that is a luxury we can seldom afford without negative consequences, so it is quite entertaining to live vicariously as it were through a fictional character who does not have to worry about the consequences that we do.

So what about you Arioch? Which Loroi have you made that you are most attracted to?

Also, if Spiral in a fanfic (trying to say this in a way to avoid spoilers) is enlisted after the war, given her personality do you think she would rise through the ranks and become a captain? Or stay a pilot or do something else?

Like Commander Spiral just sounds hilarious given how much of a goober she is. But maybe she would have learned to tone it down (because how else would she get hired as a commander?).

[Bamax]

LOL. No response will be taken as: "That information is on a need to know basis, and you *smiles politely* don't need to know."

-Bester

Babylon 5 TV series

[Arioch]

It is impolitic to ask a parent which of his children is his favorite.

Spiral and Talon are both still very young, so either might grow into a much less rambunctious older adult. But of course I'm not going to talk about what might happen after the war.

[Bamax]

Yeah I figured you would pull a Bester on me. I just wanted to at least know if my assumption as to why you would not answer was correct... and it was.

Revealing your favorite could easily cause a negative feedback loop that you would rather avoid, since readers may start making assumptions about whom and what is yet to happen in the story.

I understand that and can accept it.

[Bamax]

Are their any monogamous Loroi famlies in existence? Even in isolates tribes? Or are traditional families such a burden and a problem that even isolated tribes avoid it? Because if that is so... maybe a harem is all Alex could expect, and he may even have to accept that Beryl will sleep with other Loroi males to have offspring (even though she could just do test tube babies).

Are there any Loroi explorers who left union and hierarchy space to explore the galaxy for an escape from the war? Like Lost In Space?

Granted I know this is futile if the Loroi lose... since what the Umiak would do is akin to the death march of the Ur Quan in Star Control 2, which happens if you don't beat them before you start running out of time and opportunities to do so.

[Arioch]

Are their any monogamous Loroi famlies in existence? Even in isolates tribes? Or are traditional families such a burden and a problem that even isolated tribes avoid it?

Loroi female births outnumber male births more than 8 to 1... a tribe that practiced human-like monogamous families would have a very difficult time sustaining its population, as each married couple would have to raise 9 children just to break even -- that's asking a lot even for the long-lived Loroi. To say nothing of the other 7 unmarried females being perpetually pissed off would not do very much for the social stability of the tribe. Monogamy as a norm doesn't work for species in which there is an extreme gender imbalance.

Very powerful Loroi females are sometimes given authority over how a particular male's sexual partners are assigned, and savvy females use this authority as powerful political capital, arranging encounters with friends and allies to cement their support and to court support of those who she would like to have as allies. Sometimes it does happen that such a female take a liking to a particular male and assigns him to herself. This is not really the same as a human marriage, but it could be viewed as monogamous if she assigns him exclusively and she also doesn't have sex with any other males. However, this is an unusual and very unpopular thing for a female to do, as it can bring accusations ranging from unfairness and selfishness to mental illness. It is a gift for her enemies and a blow to her allies, and when it happens it is usually a sign that she is headed for a fall.

So if you're thinking about the possibilities of a monogamous relationship between a Loroi female and a human male, it's important to keep this background in mind. However, it's not possible for a human male to impregnate a Loroi female, so it is an inherently alien situation. Sex for Loroi females is pleasurable but it is mainly about getting pregnant, so most Loroi females would simply not be interested in sex with a human. A sybaritic Loroi female who happened to find Alex sexually attractive might be interested in a meaningless but pleasurable sexual fling, but most Loroi females would have no concept of any kind of long-term relationship with a male. A Loroi female who developed feelings of friendship with a human male might not necessarily have any kind of sexual interest in him, since for the Loroi friendship is a sisterly feeling experienced between fellow females, not between male and female. Or, she might have a kind of motherly affection for him... but again, this would not usually be in any way sexual. It's not impossible, but a lot of strange coincidences would need to line up for a Loroi female and a human male to end up in anything like a human monogamous relationship.

This is to say nothing of how Loroi society would view such a relationship. On the one hand, since human males are infertile, a Loroi female monopolizing a human male would not be hurting other Loroi females in any way. However, they would probably still question her sanity for even wanting such a relationship. It would be a little bit like a human marrying a sex robot... it wouldn't hurt anyone else, but I think most other people would still question the sanity of the person doing it.

Are there any Loroi explorers who left union and hierarchy space to explore the galaxy for an escape from the war? Like Lost In Space?

There are Loroi who live outside the Union, but the geography of the Local Bubble limits how far they can go. In the galactic spinward direction, the war with the Hierarchy blocks passage. Rimward, passage is blocked by Historian territory and the Taurus and Orion star-forming regions. Coreward lies the Great Wasteland through which there are only a few passages, known only to the races of the Periphery (and now Humanity). There are parts of the Periphery that are still outside Umiak control, but past the Periphery the Leda Compact blocks further passage up-arm. Anti-spinward lies the Nissek Hegemony, which it is possible for Loroi to pass through, but past that in the Ninnil Gap they would run again into hostile forces that would be unlikely to allow passage.

SpoilerShow

The story of "Project Forward" involves the exploration of some of these regions outside the Local Bubble, but at this point in the Outsider story, these are places that Loroi have never gone.

[Bamax]

Are their any monogamous Loroi famlies in existence? Even in isolates tribes? Or are traditional families such a burden and a problem that even isolated tribes avoid it?

Loroi female births outnumber male births more than 8 to 1... a tribe that practiced human-like monogamous families would have a very difficult time sustaining its population, as each married couple would have to raise 9 children just to break even -- that's asking a lot even for the long-lived Loroi. To say nothing of the other 7 unmarried females being perpetually pissed off would not do very much for the social stability of the tribe. Monogamy as a norm doesn't work for species in which there is an extreme gender imbalance.

Very powerful Loroi females are sometimes given authority over how a particular male's sexual partners are assigned, and savvy females use this authority as powerful political capital, arranging encounters with friends and allies to cement their support and to court support of those who she would like to have as allies. Sometimes it does happen that such a female take a liking to a particular male and assigns him to herself. This is not really the same as a human marriage, but it could be viewed as monogamous is she assigns him exclusively and she also doesn't have sex with any other males. However, this is an unusual and very unpopular thing for a female to do, as it can bring accusations ranging from unfairness and selfishness to mental illness. It is a gift for her enemies and a blow to her allies, and when it happens it is usually a sign that she is headed for a fall.

So if you're thinking about the possibilities of a monogamous relationship between a Loroi female and a human male, it's important to keep this background in mind. However, it's not possible for a human male to impregnate a Loroi female, so it is an inherently alien situation. Sex for Loroi females is pleasurable but it is mainly about getting pregnant, so most Loroi females would simply not be interested in sex with a human. A sybaritic Loroi female who happened to find Alex sexually attractive might be interested in a meaningless but pleasurable sexual fling, but most would no concept of any kind of long-term relationship with a male. A Loroi female who developed feelings of friendship with a human male might not necessarily have any kind of sexual interest in him, since for the Loroi friendship is a sisterly feeling experienced between fellow females, not between male and female. Or, she might have a kind of motherly affection for him... but again, this would not usually be in any way sexual. It's not impossible, but a lot of strange coincidences would need to line up for a Loroi female and a human male to end up in anything like a human monogamous relationship.

This is to say nothing of how Loroi society would view such a relationship. On the one hand, since human males are infertile, a Loroi female monopolizing a human male would not be hurting other Loroi females in any way. However, they would probably still question her sanity for even wanting such a relationship. It would be a little bit like a human marrying a sex robot... it wouldn't hurt anyone else, but I think most other people would still question the sanity of the person doing it.

Are there any Loroi explorers who left union and hierarchy space to explore the galaxy for an escape from the war? Like Lost In Space?

There are Loroi who live outside the Union, but the geography of the Local Bubble limits how far they can go. In the galactic spinward direction, the war with the Hierarchy blocks passage. Rimward, passage is blocked by Historian territory and the Taurus and Orion star-forming regions. Coreward lies the Great Wasteland through which there are only a few passages, known only to the races of the Periphery (and now Humanity). There are parts of the Periphery that are still outside Umiak control, but past the Periphery the Leda Compact blocks further passage up-arm. Anti-spinward lies the Nissek Hegemony, which it is possible for Loroi to pass through, but past that in the Ninnil Gap they would run again into hostile forces that would be unlikely to allow passage.

SpoilerShow

The story of "Project Forward" involves the exploration of some of these regions outside the Local Bubble, but at this point in the Outsider story, these are places that Loroi have never gone.

Yes... I have read your various hints about project forward.

I see... so basically an alien monogamous relationship with a Loroi would be viewed with suspicion amd mockery.. not unlike how interracial marriages were viewed during the civil rights era of the USA.

So any Loroi willing to take that step would need both an open mind and be incredibly brave as well as opinionated and not being overly concerned about upsettimg friends or family to where they would not enter a relationship with a human.

Beryl is a prime candidate given her curiousity and her being opinionated.


For what it's worth, I do think Loroi have less reason to mock a Loroi/human relationship than a Loroi/Neridi or... *shudders* a Loroi/Barsam relationship.

I am not into the furry/human scene if you get what I mean. Grosses me out.


Since only Loroi warriors are allowed to procreate, I could see a market for human male encounters with Loroi civillians being either a black market type of thing (as graphically and disturbingly depicted in Snoofman's fanfics) or a legalized thing or even both.

[Urist]

From the impression that I've gotten from Arioch's various descriptions on the topic, I think that comparing loroi views on sexuality to any human equivalents doesn't really work. Humans (especially human males, who seem to make up the large majority of Outsider fans on this forum) simply center our lives far more around sex and sex-based bonding than loroi do. For humans, the choice on who we sleep with (and who *other people* sleep with) is a fairly major decision and majorly affects how we/they are viewed by our fellow humans.

By contrast, for loroi sex seems to be more viewed as merely another biological function. Like eating, sunbathing, getting a massage, or the like is for humans: it's pleasurable, we like to do it, but we don't consider it to be a dominant characteristic of an individual. A human who insists on going sunbathing *every day* might be viewed as a bit quirky, but we wouldn't consider that to be an overriding character trait that describes what 'sort' of person they are. Likewise, a loroi who thinks too much about sex (boasts of her past encounters to her friends, maybe even has NSFW images stored on her personal computer-datapad aboard ship) might be viewed by her peers the same way: as long as she does her job as a warrior, she'll only face a bit of teasing about her strange quirk.

Which would imply that a loroi who develops a 'taste' for a single male (or an alien) might be better compared to how humans view other humans who develop strange mental (non-sexual) obsessions, rather than specifically sexual perversions. Sexual preferences are a major trait for humans, so a human who transgresses against their society's accepted limits (interracial couples, homosexual couples, polygamous couples, etc.) is considered to have a major flaw that is central to 'who they are.'

By comparison, loroi might view something like that more like how we would view someone who, say, is an extreme germophobe (always wears gloves and a face-mask, sprays everything and everyone with disinfectant) or a hoarder (house/quarters full of random junk) or an agoraphobe (cannot go outside), or such. For that matter, maybe alcoholism or other substance abuse is a good analogy. It's more of a 'that poor person has a screw loose in their brain, they need professional help' rather than 'that person is an awful/sinful person' angle. So the loroi response is less likely to be 'that loroi has fallen in love with a specific male! Cast her out from society!' and more 'that loroi has fallen in love with a specific male! Send her to rehab, and call for a therapist!'

Of course, a loroi with sufficient power/authority/wealth might be able to get away with it, much like how many famous humans in history have still kept hold of their fame/fortune/jobs despite obvious (or merely commonly-believed) mental quirks. Howard Hughes (germophobe) comes to mind, or Edgar Hoover (alleged crossdresser), Ulysses "S" Grant (alcoholic), etc.

[Arioch]

Even the phrase "fall in love" is specific to the concept of pair-bonding, which most species even on Earth do not do. This concept of a sort of inevitable permanent attachment to a sex partner would have no meaning at all to a Loroi or to any species that did not have the specific biological trait of pair-bonding; it's not just some cultural tradition. A Loroi might be sexually attracted to you, and she might develop a powerful friendship and attachment with you, and she might do both at the same time... but she is never going to "fall in love" with you, because that is a biological drive that she simply doesn't have.

I realize that I'm splitting hairs here -- if you have a Loroi waifu, it doesn't really matter at some level why she has agreed to be your waifu -- I just find it a fascinating exercise to examine how our thought processes, and concepts that we consider to be universal, are so tightly bound to the specifics of our biology. If you were to stop random people on the street and ask them what the most important elements of existence are, many of them would place "love" at or near the top of the list, and they would mean romantic love. And I think that most people would assume that this is a fundamental trait of intelligent human beings -- to the point where some people (like certain filmmakers) propose that love is some kind of force of physics that moves the universe. And yet, our concept of love would be almost incomprehensible to any intelligent species that did not pair-bond.

I'd also just like to post a disclaimer about the choices I make for fictional races: when designing aliens I like to ask the question: how might they deal with a given subject in a way that might different from humans? It's both an interesting intellectual exercise for me as a writer, as well as offering potentially interesting story possibilities as alien cultures clash. These choices don't necessarily reflect my personal views on the relevant subjects. For example, I'm not against human pair-bonding, nor do I think a military police state is a good form of government, nor do I think that men should be subservient to women, etc..

[Urist]

That's a good point, where even my reflexive choice of wording uses terms that would not have meaning for loroi. I must say that I really do like the various aliens in Outsider from a writing perspective (especially the loroi, about whom the most details have been provided): they strike a very nice (and rare) balance between being so humanlike in biology/culture/psychology as to feel almost 'redundant' (*cough* Vulcans *cough*) or so different from us as to be hard to understand (say, most 'ascended' aliens in lots of science-fiction).

Anyways, onto a new question:

Do loroi children going through pre-diral education get education only from one caste (perhaps the one they're set to be accepted into if they complete their diral trials correctly), or do they get a 'broader' training? As in, say, a group of pre-Tenoin being given lessons on Taben: would their instructors be Tenoin only (or another unnamed caste dedicated to child-rearing?), or would they have visiting Soroin, Mizol, Gallen, Listel etc. teachers rotate through to teach them about the castes other than the one they're destined for?

I'm essentially wondering how much a recently-'graduated' loroi would know about other castes than her own. Would they be something she'd only learned 'about', or something that she'd met at least one representative of while growing up?

[Bamax]

For example, I'm not against human pair-bonding, nor do I think a military police state is a good form of government, nor do I think that men should be subservient to women, etc..

I agree... and yet for you saying some of this you would get downvoted to hell and even suspended or banned off certain subreddits. Believe me I know... you can probably guess why. Sick of the militant cancel culture that censors all opposing thoughts or conversation or calls everything against a view rascist or a phobia when frankly it is a normal reaction to things outside the norm that even children have unless indoctrinated otherwise. People can't give an answer when asked what is a woman.

No I don't expect or want a response (not trying to get you cancelled and I hate both cancel culture and the narcissism and delusions that promote it).

[Arioch]

I thought they did a pretty decent job of making the Vulcans distinctive, at least in the original series. They did fall into the trap of "better than humans at everything," but otherwise I thought they had distinct and interesting impacts of Vulcan telepathy, their philosophy of pure logic, and their unusual mating practices. Certainly much more so than your typical "humans with a latex prothesis" race in popular media. Though I don't follow post-Voyager Star Trek so I don't know (or care) what they've done with Vulcans since.

Do loroi children going through pre-diral education get education only from one caste (perhaps the one they're set to be accepted into if they complete their diral trials correctly), or do they get a 'broader' training? As in, say, a group of pre-Tenoin being given lessons on Taben: would their instructors be Tenoin only (or another unnamed caste dedicated to child-rearing?), or would they have visiting Soroin, Mizol, Gallen, Listel etc. teachers rotate through to teach them about the castes other than the one they're destined for?

I'm essentially wondering how much a recently-'graduated' loroi would know about other castes than her own. Would they be something she'd only learned 'about', or something that she'd met at least one representative of while growing up?

Pre-diral or "creche" schooling is not very standardized. It is usually provided as part of the general child care, so it's as much day-care as it is schooling. Sometimes it's provided by private family groups, sometimes it's dedicated local government professionals, and sometimes it's just members of local military units assigned to it as they might be to kitchen or latrine-digging duty. Sometimes it's very high quality, and sometimes... not.

Children in creche range from infants to about six years old, so we're talking about early elementary school education. The focus will be on basic language, math and socialization skills. I don't think there is likely to be much caste-specific training at this age, although the location and personnel providing the care will color the experience -- if you're being babysat by scientists in a research colony versus Tenoin pilots in a seaport, you may get a different perspective. The exception would be children that have shown specific psionic aptitudes, who may get special tutoring or even be transferred to a dedicated creche.

I agree... and yet for you saying some of this you would get downvoted to hell and even suspended or banned off certain subreddits. Believe me I know... you can probably guess why. Sick of the militant cancel culture that censors all opposing thoughts or conversation or calls everything against a view rascist or a phobia when frankly it is a normal reaction to things outside the norm that even children have unless indoctrinated otherwise. People can't give an answer when asked what is a woman.

I think that the nature of social media greatly amplifies extreme viewpoints. As politicians and corporations are currently learning to their detriment, the orthodoxy on social media is not supported by the majority of real people.

[Bamax]

I thought they did a pretty decent job of making the Vulcans distinctive, at least in the original series. They did fall into the trap of "better than humans at everything," but otherwise I thought they had distinct and interesting impacts of Vulcan telepathy, their philosophy of pure logic, and their unusual mating practices. Certainly much more so than your typical "humans with a latex prothesis" race in popular media. Though I don't follow post-Voyager Star Trek so I don't know (or care) what they've done with Vulcans since.

Do loroi children going through pre-diral education get education only from one caste (perhaps the one they're set to be accepted into if they complete their diral trials correctly), or do they get a 'broader' training? As in, say, a group of pre-Tenoin being given lessons on Taben: would their instructors be Tenoin only (or another unnamed caste dedicated to child-rearing?), or would they have visiting Soroin, Mizol, Gallen, Listel etc. teachers rotate through to teach them about the castes other than the one they're destined for?

I'm essentially wondering how much a recently-'graduated' loroi would know about other castes than her own. Would they be something she'd only learned 'about', or something that she'd met at least one representative of while growing up?

Pre-diral or "creche" schooling is not very standardized. It is usually provided as part of the general child care, so it's as much day-care as it is schooling. Sometimes it's provided by private family groups, sometimes it's dedicated local government professionals, and sometimes it's just members of local military units assigned to it as they might be to kitchen or latrine-digging duty. Sometimes it's very high quality, and sometimes... not.

Children in creche range from infants to about six years old, so we're talking about early elementary school education. The focus will be on basic language, math and socialization skills. I don't think there is likely to be much caste-specific training at this age, although the location and personnel providing the care will color the experience -- if you're being babysat by scientists in a research colony versus Tenoin pilots in a seaport, you may get a different perspective. The exception would be children that have shown specific psionic aptitudes, who may get special tutoring or even be transferred to a dedicated creche.

I agree... and yet for you saying some of this you would get downvoted to hell and even suspended or banned off certain subreddits. Believe me I know... you can probably guess why. Sick of the militant cancel culture that censors all opposing thoughts or conversation or calls everything against a view rascist or a phobia when frankly it is a normal reaction to things outside the norm that even children have unless indoctrinated otherwise. People can't give an answer when asked what is a woman.

I think that the nature of social media greatly amplifies extreme viewpoints. As politicians and corporations are currently learning to their detriment, the orthodoxy on social media is not supported by the majority of real people.

With regard to the TOS Klingons at least, I am not so sure they were distinct enough for humans (beyond being the mirror of human barbarism which TOS humanity had grown up from).

[Arioch]

With regard to the TOS Klingons at least, I am not so sure they were distinct enough for humans (beyond being the mirror of human barbarism which TOS humanity had grown up from).

Even after The Motion Picture cosmetic makeover, in TNG and DS9 the distinctive Klingon traits were all cultural... biologically they are practically identical to humans, appearances aside.

[Bamax]

With regard to the TOS Klingons at least, I am not so sure they were distinct enough for humans (beyond being the mirror of human barbarism which TOS humanity had grown up from).

Even after The Motion Picture cosmetic makeover, in TNG and DS9 the distinctive Klingon traits were all cultural... biologically they are practically identical to humans, appearances aside.

Not quite... former trekkie here (because I cannot stomach the current dreck they are calling Star Trek).

Klingons are supposed to have redundant skeletal bone protection around the chest and be overall tougher in a fight than your average human.

That said:), my favorite version of klingon ever is Gowron's masterful performance in the game Star Trek Klingon. Despite being as naturally violent as hell (as all klingons are) he is clever enough to know better when to hold off lol. Even with verbal violence. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=H64l5BsFo ... BrbGluZ29u

[Arioch]

Klingons are supposed to have redundant skeletal bone protection around the chest and be overall tougher in a fight than your average human.

None of that is from the actual series. I imagine that they had some notion that Klingons were supposed to be stronger and tougher than humans, but we never see that in action... Klingons lose nearly all of the fights that they have with humans.

[Bamax]

Klingons are supposed to have redundant skeletal bone protection around the chest and be overall tougher in a fight than your average human.

None of that is from the actual series. I imagine that they had some notion that Klingons were supposed to be stronger and tougher than humans, but we never see that in action... Klingons lose nearly all of the fights that they have with humans.

Naturally... our trek heroes would not last long otherwise.

[Bamax]

Do Loroi ship systems use AI? I am aware Arioch created this story before AI became more mainstream, so it is possible the Loroi don't fool with AI at all.

If they do use spaceship AI, please tell me they are more competent than CONRAD (the spaceship AI for the cartoon Alien Monday on youtube).



So I was watching Alien Monday and was awe struck how awful the spaceship's AI was at keeping the crew safe. It was as if it was trying to get them all killed, and nearly succeeded. My issues I have with the AI, having watched the entire video, are as follows:

1. If the AI knows a crew member has been in a section of the ship for THREE days when it has other tasks to do, that's the kind of thing you would think it should at least check the camera footage and then relay it ASAP to any other crew members. The surviving crew member had to prompt the AI to even tell her where the missing crew member was even though it knew all along.

2. Instead of waltzing into the unknown to check on a crew member who has not left a part of the ship for THREE days, try using a voice intercom first by asking him is he okay. If no response you check the camera feed. If you have no cameras there then shame on you ship designers. If you have no voice intercom triple shame on them. You would then have to go yourself to check it out, but at least you would realize that something is seriously wrong and potentially unsafe before you waltz right into it unprepared. Like seriously, if a crewman has not left a room for 3 days that is a serious red flag.