Concept Fanart of Future Terran Ship Designs

[junk]

Well looking at the ship class rundown again. And I'm getting a vibe, that future terran warships, if they follow current terran doctrine will be fairly brutal birdies.

Just comparing the current HC to the Loroi one. Essentially the same amount of S2S weaponry, but a disproportionate amount of PDS compared to the loroi. While being a lot smaller.

While all of the gear there is vastly inferior to the loroi it kind of shows a certain willingness of terran designers to push their power plants and whatever else to the limits. And cram whatever they can.

Another point to consider - a very large part of the terran armanent is kinetic based. Which points at relatively large necessary internal spaces to keep munitions. This once more brings up the size of the ship. The terran HC is smaller even with this in consideration. And that by as much as a fourth. The loroi is most likely broader as well.

Now just imagine what terrans would be able to do if they applied their design philosophies and couled it with loroi tech.

The higher quality of loroi PDS means that a ship needs much less of it which in turns frees up energy and mass capacity for more S2S armaments.
Further the fact that this vessel would be able to essentially eliminate all mass drivers in favour of energy weaponry means that a lot more space could suddenly be saved. This could be used to allow for more missile system stores which would allow them to have more tubes due to their energy efficiency.
Or considerably reduce the vessel even further.

Of course it's entirely possible that terran's would refine their weapon designs instead of fully adopting loroi weapon policy. A mass driver which can accelerate munitions to near C is more or less hard to distinguish from a laser based weapon in regards to aiming it, but can potentially be more deadly.

So to recap. Given loroi technology as well as the understanding of it, human design principles would most likely yield a ship that quite a bit smaller than a loroi vessel, while being more heavily armed. Not to mention the human ships seems to need less crew. Which points at more automation on the human ship. Shame the america class doesn't have a deadweight entry. Would make it even easier to make design philosophy comparisons.

To be honest that's one point that I honestly don't fully understand. Why are the loroi crew complements so much higher than on comperable human vessels.

[Mjolnir]

Another point to consider - a very large part of the terran armanent is kinetic based. Which points at relatively large necessary internal spaces to keep munitions.

This seems completely backwards. I would expect a few hundred mass driver rounds to be quite small in comparison to the power systems and other equipment supporting the mass driver, and for *those* to be small in comparison to those supporting a high energy relativistic plasma cannon. The latter also requires additional equipment for generation of a dense packet of plasma and ensuring it stays together for the trip to its target, and a lot more equipment for handling waste heat.

Terran ships are probably small because there's been little reason to spend the money on something bigger, and armed as they are because the Terrans can't fit large energy weapons on them. And loaded up with PDS because they expect to have stuff shot at them that PDS can handle. None of which implies they will continue to be small and similarly armed when upgrades and the need to mount competitive weapons comes along.

[Arioch]

To be honest that's one point that I honestly don't fully understand. Why are the loroi crew complements so much higher than on comperable human vessels.

Terran vessels are relatively long and narrow, and weight is a signficant issue due to their relatively weak engines; Loroi warships of a similar length tend to be wider and heavier. The Loroi examples are also pure warships, with additional crew for redundancy, while most of the Terran classes are patrol and coast guard vessels first and foremost.

[Trantor]

...The Loroi examples are also pure warships, with additional crew for redundancy, while most of the Terran classes are patrol and coast guard vessels first and foremost.

[Ktrain]

...The Loroi examples are also pure warships, with additional crew for redundancy, while most of the Terran classes are patrol and coast guard vessels first and foremost.

Coast Guards are just naval border patrols with limited military capacities, though they do get deployed overseas for operations on occasion. Their job is to protect territorial waters from mainly civilian threats (though they were equipped with anti-submarine weapons during WWII). The Navy's role is to project power and counter other military forces. In Space coast guard units would police star routes to ensure that there was no smuggling of contraband, piracy, and interdiction by unknown species into human space. I'm guessing TCA ships have marines and inspection teams aboard in case some corporate vessel is doing something illegal (like smuggling xenomorphs or alien/military technology).

[DevilDalek]

Well, Ariochs cargo ship in minibricks does fit in well for my idea of the Terrans refitting old designs (in this case a deep space outpost vessel) to become the resupply vessel.

I shall get on with it right away.

[Cy83r]

Well looking at the ship class rundown again. And I'm getting a vibe, that future terran warships, if they follow current terran doctrine will be fairly brutal birdies... Just comparing the current HC to the Loroi one... While being a lot smaller... [Terrans] cram whatever they can [into a hull package].

I think this is pretty much the only tangible factor. Just comparing the "two-abreast" sub-style gangways on the Bell against the far more spacious 'interior park' aesthetic of the Tempest, I get the sense that the Terran Colonies' limited resources, technology, and production capacity renders their designs almost completely functional, though we would have to compare deck plans and allotments between two similarly sized and classed vessels in either fleets to draw a proper conclusion on the matter.

On the issue of energy weapons not having ammunition storage, I insist that you are incorrect, even lasers require a medium in which to generate their beam and an energy and/or chemical source to instigate lasing. Plasma weapons require conceivably larger amounts of power than lasers and actually project highly energized mass as the delivery package, requiring some sort of elemental medium stored in an inert fashion that requires 'warming up' or pre-energized in an active, energy-consuming cyclotron. Also in the issue are various diagnostic and support mechanisms required for devices that are more complex than the relatively simple railgun/coilgun systems used by Terrans. All things considered, Loroi and Umiak fleets still devote mass to replacement lasing and plasma mediums, but the mass allotted to each shot is admittedly much less than that of kinetic kill weapons though I do assume that the weapon systems themselves may take up more room.

[junk]

To be honest I don't get much a sense of limited resources for terrans from the size of their corridors. Instead I get more a feeling of opulence from the loroi. Since I'd gather that human military vessels have similar sized decks, corridors and passageways.

Though the size of the loroi crew spaces could be simply due to their nature of avoiding physical contact.

And thanks Arioch about mentioning the crew size difference. The difference though still seems far too high to me but what do I know.

[Paragon]

So how quickly do you guys think Humanity will be able to build a war fleet large enough to make some sort of difference in the war (assuming we get some sort of tech assistance from somewhere)? I think it could happen relatively quickly if Earth devotes serious resources to it (and they'd have good reason to do so). It would happen even faster if they adopt some crazy all out war economy like the U.S.A. in WWII. Earth's industrial capacity should be fairly ridiculous considering the presence of 25 billion humans (Jesus Christ where do we get the water and food for all those people) which is more than all of the Loroi homeworlds put together according to Insider.

[Trantor]

So how quickly do you guys think Humanity will be able to build a war fleet large enough to make some sort of difference in the war (assuming we get some sort of tech assistance from somewhere)?

Warships ~17 years.
We´d be quicker with mass production of smart bombs/rockets and their smart decoy flare counterparts (for flooding enemy territory). That could be done within months, assistance assumed.

[TrashMan]

Well looking at the ship class rundown again. And I'm getting a vibe, that future terran warships, if they follow current terran doctrine will be fairly brutal birdies... Just comparing the current HC to the Loroi one... While being a lot smaller... [Terrans] cram whatever they can [into a hull package].

I think this is pretty much the only tangible factor. Just comparing the "two-abreast" sub-style gangways on the Bell against the far more spacious 'interior park' aesthetic of the Tempest, I get the sense that the Terran Colonies' limited resources, technology, and production capacity renders their designs almost completely functional, though we would have to compare deck plans and allotments between two similarly sized and classed vessels in either fleets to draw a proper conclusion on the matter.

Frankly I always expect military warships to be spartan and minimalistic when it comes to interior design. Huge, spacious hallways, or the "interior park" as you call it, is just a waste of space and bad design practice.

[Cy83r]

Frankly I always expect military warships to be spartan and minimalistic when it comes to interior design. Huge, spacious hallways, or the "interior park" as you call it, is just a waste of space and bad design practice.

*glances at the Tempest, then at Arioch, and then at his brownie*

...yeaaaah...

[Trantor]

Frankly I always expect military warships to be spartan and minimalistic when it comes to interior design. Huge, spacious hallways, or the "interior park" as you call it, is just a waste of space and bad design practice.

For smaller vessels i agree.
But these spacious hallways on the big ones are not only for personell, but also for transportating equipment and spareparts.

[LegioCI]

The spacious hallways and interior parks and such could be a psychological/cultural necessity. For example, we've learned that much of Loroi telepathy is based on proximity or physical contact, so they may evolved culturally needing a larger "bubble" of personal space. Where as the non-telepathic humans are perfectly fine cramming twenty sleeping sailors into a room roughly the size of a walk-in closet, Loroi would likely need much more personal space; imagine a Loroi trying to sleep if she could clearly hear the thoughts/dreams of the Loroi bunking above and below her?

In fact, this could be a very good design advantage for Terran ships, since for a given size you could devote far less of the interior to "personal space" and devote more to things like defensive systems, weapon stores and fuel-tanks. I would imagine that Loroi would find Terran warships to be incredibly spartan and even claustrophic, having to squeeze past people in the hallways; bunking, eating, and relaxing packed onto a ship like sardines.

[bunnyboy]

Huge, spacious hallways, or the "interior park" as you call it, is just a waste of space and bad design practice.

I disagree. Space cost nothing, so you can have it as much you wan't. Having it filled with atmosphere, is more complicated.

Pros:
- Increase of space is cheap
- It helps to stay sane, when you can have distance from things
- It helps to stay fit, when you have more playground
- It is more stable (accidents, fires, leaks & toxins have smaller effect)
- It gives more time for reacts in hazardous situations



Cons:
- It makes bigger target
- Bigger area for maintain & find the leaks
- Too big area with weak structure may result buckling, when forces (like acceleration) are applied

The design is just compromise different things.

[LegioCI]

I disagree. Space cost nothing, so you can have it as much you wan't. Having it filled with atmosphere, is more complicated.

I have to disagree. If you've even seen a modern warship, you know that space is at an extreme premium, mainly due to opportunity cost. Let's say your hypothetical Loroi-style warship has nice, spacious 3m*3m hallways. (For simplicities sake, we'll it's running 300m down the length of our ship.) It looks nice, and it might make the crew a bit happier to not have to squeeze up against the bulkheads to let someone pass, however, if we were simply bring it down to a slightly less comfortable 2m*2m*300m, we free up 1200 cubic meters of space from a single hallway. If we bring it to a more claustrophobic 1.5x2m we free up another 900m^3 of space.

All that extra space to make things more comfortable for the crew means that you're leaving 2100 cubic meters of weapons, armor, supplies and fuel at home. And that's just from a single hallway. This is why if you ever go on a naval vessel, everything is cramped and tight; comfortable hallways will rarely save a ship in combat, however a little extra fuel for maneuvering or a few extra missiles may decide whether the men and women on that ship make it home alive.

[Mjolnir]

All that extra space to make things more comfortable for the crew means that you're leaving 2100 cubic meters of weapons, armor, supplies and fuel at home. And that's just from a single hallway. This is why if you ever go on a naval vessel, everything is cramped and tight; comfortable hallways will rarely save a ship in combat, however a little extra fuel for maneuvering or a few extra missiles may decide whether the men and women on that ship make it home alive.

The major limiting factor on a spacecraft is mass, not volume. You can add arbitrary amounts of volume at the cost of a bit of structure and some armor. The ships we've seen could easily have their volume increased while keeping the same structure and armor mass simply by making them more spherical...but filling that volume with equipment, fuel, etc would likely make the ship hopelessly slow in combat. Extra room to make crew comfortable and improve safety margins in case of atmospheric loss or contamination means just that...it doesn't imply any notable equipment mass left behind.

[bunnyboy]

I have to disagree. If you've even seen a modern warship

Good observation, but they follow different rules.
There weight isn't usually limit (in right places), as there are some times added sand or iron rails to ballast just to get more weight.
The size and space of ship is limited by size of harbor, bridges, water depht, ability to hide, streamlining, etc.

[LegioCI]

Well, there could well be dimensional limits as well. A wider ship for it's given ability will have a larger target profile, require more armor plating to cover it, as well as require more material in general. Especially considering that the TCA only has access to a single mineral-rich system, this means that every scrap of metal counts- Leaner and meaner is the way to go; save the spacious hallways and comfortable sleeping quarters for the post-war space-liners.

[Mjolnir]

Well, there could well be dimensional limits as well. A wider ship for it's given ability will have a larger target profile, require more armor plating to cover it, as well as require more material in general. Especially considering that the TCA only has access to a single mineral-rich system, this means that every scrap of metal counts- Leaner and meaner is the way to go; save the spacious hallways and comfortable sleeping quarters for the post-war space-liners.

This assumes the living spaces are a substantial portion of the ship's overall volume. This may not be so, especially for warships with power systems for running energy weapons, high power engines, artificial gravity systems to keep the crew from liquefying, jump drives, and redundancy in all the above systems. If only 10% of the ship's volume is habitable crew spaces, halving those spaces won't save much.