Miscellaneous Loroi question-and-answer thread

[Arioch]

I guess the next question would be what kind of drunks would the Loroi and their allies are? The "I love You," The "I hate You, or the" HAWWWWYYY! C'Mere!" guys.

More like the telekinetically splattering your brains all over the place kind of drunks.

This is one of the reasons that Loroi don't consume intoxicating drugs casually in public: an angry psionic drunk is a danger to others. Again, it's similar to operating a vehicle or other heavy machinery under the influence: it's just not tolerated.

Similarly, Barsam are famously temperant. Nobody needs a 400 pound gorilla tearing things up.

Neridi are more likely to experiment with mind-altering substances, partially because they have a more permissive and sybaritic culture, and partially because they're too small to do a lot of damage.

[SaintofM]

I guess the next question would be what kind of drunks would the Loroi and their allies are? The "I love You," The "I hate You, or the" HAWWWWYYY! C'Mere!" guys.

More like the telekinetically splattering your brains all over the place kind of drunks.

This is one of the reasons that Loroi don't consume intoxicating drugs casually in public: an angry psionic drunk is a danger to others. Again, it's similar to operating a vehicle or other heavy machinery under the influence: it's just not tolerated.

Similarly, Barsam are famously temperant. Nobody needs a 400 pound gorilla tearing things up.

Neridi are more likely to experiment with mind-altering substances, partially because they have a more permissive and sybaritic culture, and partially because they're too small to do a lot of damage.

Maybe, but somehow I can see an April First post with them having sudden Honey Badger energy.

[Urist]

That's especially a risk with drunk *Teidar* or Mizol; I suspect that the more-common problem would be more that one can't (as far as I understand) 'ignore' sanzai, and that it takes mental discipline *not* to send one's thoughts.

If there's some drunk guy at a bar who's slurring out the most rude/obnoxious/distracting stuff, usually a bouncer (or another patron) can get him to shut up. At worst, you can just move to the other side of the room, or maybe even go to another room. But a drunk loroi probably *can't* stop herself from sanzai'ing whatever's on her mind, and unless you walk far enough away to leave sanzai range entirely (a few hundred yards, IIRC) you can't just ignore her.

So while drunken telekinetics are *dangerous*, drunken *non-telekinetic* loroi are just super-humanly *irritating*.

[Arioch]

A telepathic attack doesn't have to be amplified to be dangerous. Mizol don't use amplifiers. Telepathic attacks aren't usually lethal, but an attack doesn't have to be lethal to be considered dangerous. A bit like shooting someone with a taser, it usually won't kill or permanently damage the target, but it hurts, is incapacitating, can be traumatic, and can land the attacker in jail for assault.

[SaintofM]

A telepathic attack doesn't have to be amplified to be dangerous. Mizol don't use amplifiers. Telepathic attacks aren't usually lethal, but an attack doesn't have to be lethal to be considered dangerous. A bit like shooting someone with a taser, it usually won't kill or permanently damage the target, but it hurts, is incapacitating, can be traumatic, and can land the attacker in jail for assault.

And suddenly I realize why honey bees rip the legs off of bees that habitualy come back to the hive tanked

[White]

Regarding the Loroi.

A common argument against intelligent design are the various "design flaws" present in the human body that seem indicative of a meandering evolutionary process.

The Loroi, however, were intelligently designed.

Given that these flaws seem obvious and easily corrected, are they actually present in the Loroi?

For instance. Would Loroi lack a blind spot, have a more direct laryngeal nerve, better spines, or at least a more secure relationship between their esophagus and trachae?

If so, are there any resultant differences between loroi and human brains as a result of the different physiology?

[Arioch]

A common argument against intelligent design are the various "design flaws" present in the human body that seem indicative of a meandering evolutionary process. The Loroi, however, were intelligently designed.

Given that these flaws seem obvious and easily corrected, are they actually present in the Loroi?

For instance. Would Loroi lack a blind spot, have a more direct laryngeal nerve, better spines, or at least a more secure relationship between their esophagus and trachae?

If so, are there any resultant differences between loroi and human brains as a result of the different physiology?

Well, even if a mechanism is "intelligently designed," that doesn't mean it's perfect or without flaws. Any mechanism will have trade-offs: size vs. weight, strength vs. energy requirements, etc. When you're talking about self-reproducing organisms, even if a species is designed, once it starts replicating, evolution takes a hand. Soia-liron organisms reproduce sexually as we do, randomly mixing genes from both parents, and so while there's less junk code in the genome and so less opportunity for dramatic changes, there are still adaptations, mutations and birth defects. Their reproductive history prior to the Fall is not known, but the Loroi have been reproducing naturally for several hundred thousand years, and so while it seems clear that the Loroi genome was artifically manipulated (at the very least) at some point, the present-day Loroi species is no longer exactly the same as their distant ancestors.

Loroi are similar to humans in size and strength and most physical attributes. They are a bit hardier and more resistant to disease, and require less food and less sleep. They are also less affected by aging and can live much longer. Their reproductive systems work in slightly different ways which I talk about in the Insider article. I don't intend (or have the expertise) to go point by point through every human biological structure, but in general Loroi are very similar. I think that most human quirks that are based on the large-scale structure of our bodies will probably be mirrored in Loroi, but some that are based on low-level biochemistry issues may not be the same in Loroi, and vice-versa.

For example, humans have a bit of a weakness in the layout of our airway and esophagus, in that we can't swallow and breathe at the same time. This was an adaptation to the development of speech, and evidently the ability to speak is more valuable than the risk of choking, so it's not exactly a "flaw," but rather a trade-off... though I think we're one of the few mammals with this vulnerability. For whatever reason, Loroi have the same general layout of this area and so they have the same shortcoming.

If so, are there any resultant differences between loroi and human brains as a result of the different physiology?

Well, Loroi are telepathic, so that probably qualifies as a significant difference. Loroi are not significantly more or less intelligent than humans, but many have much more precise and persistent memory.

[White]

A common argument against intelligent design are the various "design flaws" present in the human body that seem indicative of a meandering evolutionary process. The Loroi, however, were intelligently designed.

Given that these flaws seem obvious and easily corrected, are they actually present in the Loroi?

For instance. Would Loroi lack a blind spot, have a more direct laryngeal nerve, better spines, or at least a more secure relationship between their esophagus and trachae?

If so, are there any resultant differences between loroi and human brains as a result of the different physiology?

Well, even if a mechanism is "intelligently designed," that doesn't mean it's perfect or without flaws. Any mechanism will have trade-offs: size vs. weight, strength vs. energy requirements, etc. When you're talking about self-reproducing organisms, even if a species is designed, once it starts replicating, evolution takes a hand. Soia-liron organisms reproduce sexually as we do, randomly mixing genes from both parents, and so while there's less junk code in the genome and so less opportunity for dramatic changes, there are still adaptations, mutations and birth defects. Their reproductive history prior to the Fall is not known, but the Loroi have been reproducing naturally for several hundred thousand years, and so while it seems clear that the Loroi genome was artifically manipulated (at the very least) at some point, the present-day Loroi species is no longer exactly the same as their distant ancestors.

Loroi are similar to humans in size and strength and most physical attributes. They are a bit hardier and more resistant to disease, and require less food and less sleep. They are also less affected by aging and can live much longer. Their reproductive systems work in slightly different ways which I talk about in the Insider article. I don't intend (or have the expertise) to go point by point through every human biological structure, but in general Loroi are very similar. I think that most human quirks that are based on the large-scale structure of our bodies will probably be mirrored in Loroi, but some that are based on low-level biochemistry issues may not be the same in Loroi, and vice-versa.

If so, are there any resultant differences between loroi and human brains as a result of the different physiology?

Well, Loroi are telepathic, so that probably qualifies as a significant difference. Loroi are not significantly more or less intelligent than humans, but many have much more precise and persistent memory.

Oh, I'm not suggesting perfection, rather I'm talking about the "obvious" design flaws that makes everyone scratch their heads.

For example,the fact that the optic nerve connects to the front of the retina causes a blind spot that isn't really necessary if you study invertebrate eyes.

The things I'm talking about aren't a matter of trade-offs, at least not obvious ones, but rather things that seem easily fixed and not really sensical.

The laryngial nerve goes down to the human heart before coming back up to the neck.

This is a result of fish ancestors not really having necks, and isn't really the kind of thing that a hundred thousand years of evolution could correct or even cause.

What I'm talking about aren't so much phenotypic variances, but closer to being basic design elements that have persisted over hundreds of millions of years. The soia changes the biological substrate of the Loroi, but I'm asking if they also tweaked the root level design "choices" that evolution randomly stumbled upon in the Permian explosion and just kept rolling with because they were "good enough".

[White]

What's the Loroi perception of mercinaries? Were they in common use in the pre-star flight era.

On one hand they are warriors (or fighters, at least), but they are essentially in it for the money, and what of characters like ronin, that wander around doing warrior stuff 4 food.

Granted, the movie version of a Ronin is probably romanticized to all hell, but I imagine Loroi perceptions of a regular 'warrior' are similarly spiffed up.

&&&

I also had some questions about Loroi society.

I notice that some people on the thread tend to have an overly negative view of the blue people, but I kind of see them and their penchant for honesty as a general, categorical good for the health of their society and morals. So, regarding that, would it be correct to say that the Loroi justice system is paradisaically fair compared to Human practical ideals?

That is to say, 'corruption' wouldn't be a thing that hinders whatever their intended rules of society are. The rules themselves might be terrible, but they'd be rigidly adhered to by all parties.

Granted, they are a military dictatorship, but, in such societies, the most discomforting thing, for most people, most of the time, seems to be a paranoid government that starts thrashing out and capturing ordinary citizens that don't want any trouble in the net it casts to capture revolutionaries.

Stalin's purges come to mind, in that some among the thousands killed probably were out to get him, and some of the advice given to him probably was given in good faith, but not knowing that ends up with messy results.


&&&


In that vein, I remember reading that there are whispers going around that the current empreor killed the last one?

Wouldn't a simple "I didn't do that" answer from the emperor dispell such rumors, and a refusal to answer all but guarantee them?

Granted, thinking about it, I think a simple "You dare ask me such a thing! I'd be offended at the accusation even if I did kill her!" might keep everyone who cares enough quiet until the war is over.


&&&


About Loroi depositions in general.

On earth, it's commonly touted that you never want to become a king by killing your boss, because you just showed everyone that's its ok to kill the boss.

As such, you usually find that, after a take over, stories are written and monuments are erected about how actually, they had to kill last emperor because:

1. I'm actually related to the gods.
2. I'm actually the rightful heir.
3. He was actually an impostor that killed the real king, and also looked identical to him, but I knew he was fake because he didn't have ears.
4. Hunting accident.

It's fair to assume that these claims were, usually, most probably, not even believed by the people making them.

So, in the case of Loroi, would the standard procedure be to keep quiet or just go for an honesty is the best policy: "I killed her because I wanted a nicer castle, and I'll kill anyone to keep this pagoda!"

&&&

Do loroi find it difficult to lie to themselves in the presence of others, and would this make them less likely to believe irrational things?

Of course, there's times when a Loroi wouldn't understand something.

However, whenever I observe someone arguing a truly irrational point, I usually find that there's a point where they say words that they probably can't believe, or at times even say two contradictory statements and refuse to acknowledge the hole such a contradition pokes in their argument.

The term: "You can't make a person understand something when their paycheck depends on them not understanding it comes to mind."

I suspect this breakdown in communication is a social develoment meant to save face. The person essentially shells up, and pretends to argue in good faith until the conversation peters out and they can forget it ever happened.

However, A loroi might find it difficult to pull such a tactic since the undercurrent of their bullshit would be lined with all the emotional valances revealing the fact that they themselves know that was a good point, and they don't have a good counterargument, and that the sole purpose of whatever they're saying right now is just to buy time or distract from that good and obviously correct point.

So, given this, are things like flat earth and moon landing denialism alien to the Loroi?

Going further, how about things that end up in all the various manifestaions of tribalism. (Note, I'm not suggesting that Loroi wouldn't have similar emotions that manifest as tribalism. A particular Loroi could genuinely believe that all of x people deserve to die. However, there are standard arguments against most forms of tribalism that reveal it to be not particularly consistent, so it might be harder for Loroi to keep up a rational facade in the face strong opposition to such views.)

Do note, I still think they'd feel themselves superior to other aliens, since they do have a lot of evidence going for them that they were the Soia.

[Arioch]

What's the Loroi perception of mercinaries? Were they in common use in the pre-star flight era.
On one hand they are warriors (or fighters, at least), but they are essentially in it for the money, and what of characters like ronin, that wander around doing warrior stuff 4 food.
Granted, the movie version of a Ronin is probably romanticized to all hell, but I imagine Loroi perceptions of a regular 'warrior' are similarly spiffed up.

Masterless warriors were not uncommon in pre-technolgical Deinar, as banishment was a relatively common punishment. A banished warrior would typically migrate to a different community and try to gain favor with a new local community of warriors. She might be doing direct work for hire, but might more commonly be taken on as a sort of trial basis to hunt bandits etc. Formal mercenaries would not normally be hired by warrior authorities, as they would be considered untrustworthy. Civilian agencies might directly hire masterless warriors, but you can imagine that being subservient to a civilian agency (for pay, no less) was not looked upon favorably by warrior society.

On Taben, there were ships and groups of ships operating out of Beleri that could sometimes function as mercenaries, but those could also sometimes function as pirates. Caveat emptor!

Perrein did have more formal professional mercenary companies. Allegiances were more... fluid... between the various Perrein city-states.

I notice that some people on the thread tend to have an overly negative view of the blue people, but I kind of see them and their penchant for honesty as a general, categorical good for the health of their society and morals. So, regarding that, would it be correct to say that the Loroi justice system is paradisaically fair compared to Human practical ideals?

That is to say, 'corruption' wouldn't be a thing that hinders whatever their intended rules of society are. The rules themselves might be terrible, but they'd be rigidly adhered to by all parties.

Granted, they are a military dictatorship, but, in such societies, the most discomforting thing, for most people, most of the time, seems to be a paranoid government that starts thrashing out and capturing ordinary citizens that don't want any trouble in the net it casts to capture revolutionaries.

Stalin's purges come to mind, in that some among the thousands killed probably were out to get him, and some of the advice given to him probably was given in good faith, but not knowing that ends up with messy results.

Well, any system has its shortcomings. The one in the Loroi system that seems obvious to me is that lawmaking and enforcement are both handled by the same group (the military class). To a certain degree, "might makes right"; if a group has strong enough support, there is not much of a check on its power. Although Loroi history has its share of autocrats, the Loroi have an inherently oligarchal nature -- cooperating groups of females tend to be a check on each others' power.

Perhaps the principal difference between Loroi authoritarianism and the typical Earth dictatorship is that the latter often maintains control through lies and secrecy, whereas for the telepathic Loroi even a dictatorship is forced to maintain a certain amount of transparency. I think the Loroi version lends itself more to consensus and consent, even if the rules are harsh and inflexible.

I think many readers are inclined to be suspicious of any militaristic or authoritarian system (whether fair or not), and I don't have any problem with that.

In that vein, I remember reading that there are whispers going around that the current empreor killed the last one?
Wouldn't a simple "I didn't do that" answer from the emperor dispell such rumors, and a refusal to answer all but guarantee them?
Granted, thinking about it, I think a simple "You dare ask me such a thing! I'd be offended at the accusation even if I did kill her!" might keep everyone who cares enough quiet until the war is over.

Well, the whispers were proliferated by the people who were trying to overthrow her; it was a means to an end rather than a cause of their opposition.

Greywind did publicly deny the accusation, but the word of a Mizol may not convince someone that is already inclined to oppose her political positions.

I don't think there are very many serious Loroi left who take such rumors seriously. That kind of secret would be very hard to keep in a telepathic society. It's more of an issue that the incident just left a bad taste in everyone's mouths.

About Loroi depositions in general.
On earth, it's commonly touted that you never want to become a king by killing your boss, because you just showed everyone that's its ok to kill the boss.
As such, you usually find that, after a take over, stories are written and monuments are erected about how actually, they had to kill last emperor because:

1. I'm actually related to the gods.
2. I'm actually the rightful heir.
3. He was actually an impostor that killed the real king, and also looked identical to him, but I knew he was fake because he didn't have ears.
4. Hunting accident.

It's fair to assume that these claims were, usually, most probably, not even believed by the people making them.
So, in the case of Loroi, would the standard procedure be to keep quiet or just go for an honesty is the best policy: "I killed her because I wanted a nicer castle, and I'll kill anyone to keep this pagoda!"

There were different Loroi cultures and different forms of rule across locations and times, but most were oligarchies rather than monarchies. A successful warlord often had few children -- she was too busy to be pregnant all the time -- and so power was usually centralized in the clan rather than in a particular royal family. And with only a few exceptions, there were no formal religions in Loroi society, so divine right was not at issue.

Fake justifications are not especially valuable in a telepathic society in which secrets are hard to keep, but also mostly not necessary in a culture that largely believes that might makes right. For the case of one clan deposing another, "they were weak" is generally all the justification that is needed, and it is self-evident after the fact. The case of betraying a superior within the group is a bit more touchy: "She is weak / leading us in the wrong directions / going insane" is a good place to start, but there needs to be a consensus amongst the ruling elite, or a usurper will quickly herself be usurped.

Do loroi find it difficult to lie to themselves in the presence of others, and would this make them less likely to believe irrational things?

I think that self-delusion is primarily an internal coping mechanism that doesn't have much to do with whether others are around.

I don't think the Loroi penchant for honesty has much to do with self-delusion. Stating a falsehood that you actually believe is not lying. Honesty isn't a cure for irrationality.

"It's a conspiracy" won't be a very convincing argument for a Loroi conspiracy theorist, but I don't think it's a very convincing argument for human conspiracy theorists either.

Going further, how about things that end up in all the various manifestaions of tribalism. (Note, I'm not suggesting that Loroi wouldn't have similar emotions that manifest as tribalism. A particular Loroi could genuinely believe that all of x people deserve to die. However, there are standard arguments against most forms of tribalism that reveal it to be not particularly consistent, so it might be harder for Loroi to keep up a rational facade in the face strong opposition to such views.)

Do note, I still think they'd feel themselves superior to other aliens, since they do have a lot of evidence going for them that they were the Soia.

Similarly, I think that honesty and tribalism are not strictly related. "We hate those guys over there" is not really subject to fact-checking. On the one hand, hatreds are less likely to be based on obvious falsehoods (though I think that hatreds rarely are based on issues of fact, and such falsehoods are more often merely justifications for existing hatreds); but on the other hand, the limited range of telepathy is inherently tribal. Even if the other group is also telepathic, you're going to have an inherently stronger connection to your local group. So the effects of the echo chamber are amplified, to a certain degree.

[Cthulhu]

A little trivia question, how do the Loroi name their appliances? For example, does the various military hardware like small arms, scanners, tablets, suits, etc. have serial names, code numbers, or are they named after their manufacturer?

What about civilian goods? Are there any big brand names which everyone knows? Do Loroi even have the custom of "brand names"?

Or is everything perhaps highly standardized? Like "marine blaster rifle, V.5" or "civilian-usage tablet, V.14.4"?

[Arioch]

A little trivia question, how do the Loroi name their appliances? For example, does the various military hardware like small arms, scanners, tablets, suits, etc. have serial names, code numbers, or are they named after their manufacturer?

What about civilian goods? Are there any big brand names which everyone knows? Do Loroi even have the custom of "brand names"?

Or is everything perhaps highly standardized? Like "marine blaster rifle, V.5" or "civilian-usage tablet, V.14.4"?

In terms of military hardware, nomenclature is similar to what we're used to in the modern West: ships and bases have individual names ("Tempest"), small craft have type names and individual designations ("Highland-Seven") but may also have crew-assigned nicknames; smaller vehicles typically have descriptive designations and model numbers ("armored fighting vehicle Model 12") and may also have crew-assigned nicknames, and the same with models of weaponry and gear. Individual examples of gear will have serial numbers and part numbers, but those don't usually factor into everyday conversation.

Civilian devices will have various company-assigned designations, and there is not a global set of rules regarding nomenclature. Some companies will give utilitarian names, and others may give flashy names to products, depending on the market they are trying to appeal to. The Loroi do not have a media or consumer culture, so company name recognition and reptuation are important, but ad campaigns and "brands" less so. It's kind of like Western advertising before mass media: ads were conservative and products were usually modestly named. If they wanted a reliable sewing machine, customers might have more confidence in a Singer model 1989 than a Capri Fireball. Also, in many locations companies are still operating under a remnant of the mercantilism system, in which companies in the same trade are part of a guild that is supposed to cooperate and minimize competition with each other.

[White]

Was reading the telepathy section.

Quick clarification question.

Mental Discipline
Unlike words spoken at a normal volume, which can be heard only at short range and do not travel through walls, telepathic sending carries to the fill limit of the sender's range, regardless of normal physical barriers. Loroi must quickly learn at an early age both to screen out external telepathic chatter, and to limit their own semi-conscious telepathic emissions. Every sane Loroi who survives past childhood must have developed some degree of mental discipline, but this discipline can also be specifically trained, as it is important for resisting telepathic intrusions or attacks.

Reception and Signature Detection
Most Loroi can only receive telepathic messages within their sent range

Is it that the sending and receiving ranges just need to overlap, or does the sender need to physically be within the receiver's range?

If they just need to overlap. Are the ey able to send private messages if they are both outside each other passive perception range, or are they limited to broadband shouts for communication?

[Arioch]

Is it that the sending and receiving ranges just need to overlap, or does the sender need to physically be within the receiver's range?

If they just need to overlap. Are the ey able to send private messages if they are both outside each other passive perception range, or are they limited to broadband shouts for communication?

It's roughly analogous to radio transmission and reception: there are two variables, sending strength and reception sensitivity. A sender of average strength can be detected by receivers of average sensitivity within a set range (usually a few hundred meters). The same transmission can be detected by a more sensitive receiver at a greater distance. And a normal recevier can detect a transmission of greater power (either greater base power, artificially amplified, or augmented through extra effort (a "shout")) at greater range. The maximum range achievable would be with the most powerful sender and the most sensitive receiver.

[Cthulhu]

Sorry for a rather morbid question, but how would the Soia-Liiron organisms, or the Loroi in particular, decompose, if the local biome wasn't compatible with them? Especially on Deinar, which had very primitive native life. Maybe the Dreiman yeast adapted to cover this niche, or was there something of Soia make?

Then, how dependent are the Loroi on a balanced diet, especially on vitamin and mineral intake? Do the Soia supercrops provide all that, or are the Loroi (and other races) able to generate this stuff internally and can therefore subsist on any kind of food?

[Arioch]

Sorry for a rather morbid question, but how would the Soia-Liiron organisms, or the Loroi in particular, decompose, if the local biome wasn't compatible with them? Especially on Deinar, which had very primitive native life. Maybe the Dreiman yeast adapted to cover this niche, or was there something of Soia make?

Parasites and disease organisms usually have to be specifically adapted to a host organism, as they need to be able to get past the host's defenses and manipulate its body processes. A decomposer only needs to be able to digest the target organism's tissues after it's dead. Soia-liron biochemistry still includes proteins and carbohydrates, so an alien with carbon-based chemistry similar to ours may still be able to consume (or prey upon) Soia-liron tissues.

Deinar's native microorganisms are mostly in the ocean, so the only decomposers in the soil are the descendants of the Dreiman yeast. These don't do the job very efficiently, but most Loroi subcultures cremate their dead anyway. But a corpse left out on the surface will stay there for quite some time.

Taben has more sophisticated native life; though it has no macroscopic land animals it does have native decomposers to break down the native terrestrial plants, and these can decompose Soia-liron tissues, though again not efficiently. Taben Loroi cremate their dead on land or bury at sea, where the native decomposers can take their time figuring out what to do with the alien food.

Perrein decomposers have no problem at all with Soia-liron tissues. Indeed, the problem is stopping them from decomposing you while you're still alive.

Then, how dependent are the Loroi on a balanced diet, especially on vitamin and mineral intake? Do the Soia supercrops provide all that, or are the Loroi (and other races) able to generate this stuff internally and can therefore subsist on any kind of food?

Loroi nutritional needs are less demanding than ours; what they do need is provided by their various domestic organisms, but they can also subsist on a variety of local alien foods. On Deinar all the food options are Soia-Liron, but on Taben the Loroi eat a lot of native seafood. On Perrein most of the Soia-liron livestock didn't adapt very well, so Perrein Loroi subsisted almost entirely on native foods.

[Cthulhu]

Parasites and disease organisms usually have to be specifically adapted to a host organism, as they need to be able to get past the host's defenses and manipulate its body processes. A decomposer only needs to be able to digest the target organism's tissues after it's dead. Soia-liron biochemistry still includes proteins and carbohydrates, so an alien with carbon-based chemistry similar to ours may still be able to consume (or prey upon) Soia-liron tissues.

It's not just the base substances like proteins and carbohydrates, the main issue would be about breaking down complex molecules, especially cellulose, and return various minerals to the soil. It took Earth organisms a very long time to "learn" how to break down plant matter. I guess that on Deinar, which lacks any fungi or specialized bacteria, wood should last forever. Or does "self-fertilization" apply not only to misesa, but to the nagen trees as well, and they break down by themselves?

Deinar's native microorganisms are mostly in the ocean, so the only decomposers in the soil are the descendants of the Dreiman yeast. These don't do the job very efficiently, but most Loroi subcultures cremate their dead anyway. But a corpse left out on the surface will stay there for quite some time.

Could said corpse pose any danger to the living? Physically (disease spread) or metaphysically (haunt the regressed, barbarized Loroi as a melor)?

[Arioch]

It's not just the base substances like proteins and carbohydrates, the main issue would be about breaking down complex molecules, especially cellulose, and return various minerals to the soil. It took Earth organisms a very long time to "learn" how to break down plant matter. I guess that on Deinar, which lacks any fungi or specialized bacteria, wood should last forever. Or does "self-fertilization" apply not only to misesa, but to the nagen trees as well, and they break down by themselves?

It wouldn't last forever, as on the surface it would be worn away by exposure and erosion, and if buried the Dreiman soil organisms would eventually break it down. But the woody plants like nagen and sibreg aren't annuals; they don't die off every season. The rate at which woody material would build up is limited.

I have seen different explanations for the buildup of undecomposed plant matter in Earth's Carboniferous era: one claim is that plant decomposers didn't yet exist, but another claim is that it was due to the swampy terrain which didn't allow the aeration required for proper decomposition (as with "bog bodies"). Land plants had existed for more than 100 million years prior to the Carboniferous, so plant decomposers surely already existed, though they may not have been quite up to the task of handling the composition or sheer scale of the Carboniferous forests. I suspect it was a combination of factors.

Could said corpse pose any danger to the living? Physically (disease spread) or metaphysically (haunt the regressed, barbarized Loroi as a melor)?

Where there are no microorganisms, there's no disease to spread. But people aren't just going to step over corpses in the street; they will be disposed of. And while there aren't many microscopic decomposers on Deinar, there are larger animals like miros that will eat carrion. So it's unlikely that a corpse will lie undisturbed indefinitely, unless it's in a completely lifeless area.

[Cthulhu]

I have seen different explanations for the buildup of undecomposed plant matter in Earth's Carboniferous era: one claim is that plant decomposers didn't yet exist, but another claim is that it was due to the swampy terrain which didn't allow the aeration required for proper decomposition (as with "bog bodies"). Land plants had existed for more than 100 million years prior to the Carboniferous, so plant decomposers surely already existed, though they may not have been quite up to the task of handling the composition or sheer scale of the Carboniferous forests. I suspect it was a combination of factors.

I've read that one of the main issues was the speed of decomposition. The already existing "recyclers", mainly bacteria, weren't anywhere fast or efficient enough to get through the massive tree trunks before those would sink below the aerated levels. Eventually, we got far better decomposers, like fungi and specialized insects.

Where there are no microorganisms, there's no disease to spread. But people aren't just going to step over corpses in the street; they will be disposed of. And while there aren't many microscopic decomposers on Deinar, there are larger animals like miros that will eat carrion. So it's unlikely that a corpse will lie undisturbed indefinitely, unless it's in a completely lifeless area.

I didn't mean a corpse-littered street, but rather, a battlefield. I was thinking of writing a fanfic about ancient Deinar next, and so I'm collecting various trivia bits to get a feeling for that era. By the way, do you still plan on compiling Deinar's history?

[Arioch]

I didn't mean a corpse-littered street, but rather, a battlefield.

It wouldn't be significantly different from an Earth battlefield. We don't just leave corpses on the battlefield indefinitely to rot.

By the way, do you still plan on compiling Deinar's history?

Yeah, but there are higher priorities at the moment.